The Racer Quick Loop

[peter.draper 0]

Hey My Riggers!

Today I was inspecting a Racer and when I checked the quick loop for integrity it moved dramatically beneath the cap. I removed the cap and found a home made (very nicely made, BUT home made) loop under there.
The Racer Quick Loop is a TSO'd part! Please don't use home made variations on it. It only needs changing when it needs changing, which is not often. If you do have to change one please use the real part from Parachute Labs. The funny thing is that this was installed in DeLand which is where the manufacturer is based, it must have taken more time to build that one than walk round and buy a real one.

[Genego 2]

Kinda funny it's now a TSO part. I remember being at one of the Riggers Conferences in Muskogee OK (ya I am dating myself dramatically) and having John Sherman teach us how to make quick loops!

I live with fear and terror, but sometimes I leave her and go skydiving.

[JohnSherman 1]

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Kinda funny it's now a TSO part. I remember being at one of the Riggers Conferences in Muskogee OK (ya I am dating myself dramatically) and having John Sherman teach us how to make quick loops!

It was a TSO'd part then and it is now. And you can still make one. However, It must be made from traceable certified material and made to the original drawing. Also an entry on the card would be nice. I don't think the one Peter ran into had all that.

And yes you are a very "OLD Dude"

[peter.draper 0]

it sure didn't. It was a floating loop, poorly attached to the pc - as was the "hat". It was not attached to the tape as in the TSO'd part but floating in a tape sleeve with no tacking holding it in place.

[linestretch 0]

There are plenty of reasons people hate racers...and gotta say this is just another reason people will bitch.

***before any of you start to slam me, I have no issues with them...my first rig was a racer. I'm just sayin. When you need a loop made at the last minute....this IS a pain in the ass.

my pics & stuff!

[peter.draper 0]

they hardly ever need changing, I simply keep a couple of 6" and a couple of 4" in stock - I service over 100 Racers for the QAF and in three years I've changed...... THAT ONE! Because the loops are tightened around the pin rather than being stretched beyond reason and poked with temp pins, there is very little wear and tear on a quickloop. Keeping a couple of original parts in stock for future use is no more of an issue for me than keeping enough Type 2A to make closing loops and a spool of cypres line and a tub of silicone to replace EVERY closing loop on the other brands that I pack.

[pchapman 261]

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. When you need a loop made at the last minute....this IS a pain in the ass.

Not to mention the idea of all that needlework, tacking down the pilot chute cap in umpteen places. Especially when one sees the solutions used on Reflexes, Wings, or Teardrops for many years to keep the PC cap in place. All that tacking is like some military rig from the 1950s.

Also "just saying", as I happen to jump a Racer.

[peter.draper 0]

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Not to mention the idea of all that needlework,.

100% agree - I didn't become a rigger to do sewing for God's sake....... oh wait..... nevermind

[ChrisClark 0]

The "home made" loop is actually the running loop channel and loop supplied by Airtec with 2 pin units. I still have a couple here in my loft. I however have never install one as I always preferred using the quick loops supplied by Parachute Labs as they are far easier to install and make packing less troublesome. You have to calculate the loop length and sew it in place for the running loop system. Idea was that it would work in the same way as a safety stow if one cutter failed as the loop would pull clear. Attached is picture of loop and page from Cypres riggers guide.

[Unstable 8]

Man, that's a good looking loop. Would you provide me the number of the rigger who made it?
[Just kidding...sorry.]

=========Shaun ==========

[linestretch 0]

Unfortunately, I've had to replace/make 2 of them. And gotta say, I don't recall anything about making that web channel. I need to look up where I got my info. Is that web/channel what's required? I know I got my info from my racer manual but that book was from the mid 90's. Have things changed?

my pics & stuff!

[masterrigger1 2]

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Is that web/channel what's required? I know I got my info from my racer manual but that book was from the mid 90's. Have things changed?

No.
The channel is a AirTec thing.

Unless John Sherman has changed his mind, the channel is not authorized for use on the Racer H/C.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[mark 102]

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Is that web/channel what's required? I know I got my info from my racer manual but that book was from the mid 90's. Have things changed?

No.
The channel is a AirTec thing.

Unless John Sherman has changed his mind, the channel is not authorized for use on the Racer H/C.

Cheers,
MEL

From a letter from Helmut Cloth (Airtec) earlier this year:

"One of the side spin results of all our work was a development which allowed opening the reserve container of a rig like the Racer, not with a fixed loop, but with a floatable loop. It used a channel across the pilot chute top, which enabled the loop to run through it. The result was that a reserve container, like the Racer reserve container, would immediately open when only one of its two pins was pulled. In case of a loop cutting system, the container would immediately open if only one loop cutter would sever the loop. On a walk along Lexington Ave 20 year ago, I entered the Jumpshack building and showed this to John. He was impressed that this system worked always and without hesitation. But because of possible additional packing effort he didn’t want to have it installed in the Racer. I was a bit disappointed. Forth and back, then we negotiated a compromise. In all countries where John’s TSO for the Racer was valid, it was forbidden to use this running (floating) loop, in all other countries it is permitted. You can find this regulation in every CYPRES User’s Guide since 1991 under the Chapter "Repacking of Reserves".

Mark

[JohnSherman 1]

Mark,

If you are going to re-post Helmuts letter then you should re-post my reply. I'll answer it here so it is unnecessary.

Helmuts statement that it, the floating loop, was rejected for additional packing effort its dead wrong. I rejected it because of a failure of a simular situation. I still feel the floating loop is a bad idea and prohibit it's use in Racers anywhere. I haven't changed my mine.

John

[mark 102]

John -

Sorry, I didn't have a copy of your response or I would have posted it too. I know there are usually at least two sides to every story.

Regards,
Mark

[dpreguy 14]

Mark, re:(Helmet Cloth letter)
"...the container would immediately open if only one loop cutter severered the loop."

I'm not buying it. I doubt the spring in a Racer would actually extract the loop through the channel and free the pilot chute anyway. Probably just flop over on one side, with the loop still stuck in the channel. In theory it would work, but I have my doubts about any degree of reliability.

Which begs the question of 'why is it necessary?' to double the complexity by having two electro mechanical devices (cutters) to begin with...and then try to invent a way to get around that problem - two cutters having to cut, instead of just one.

[mark 102]

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I'm not buying it.

I'm not asking you to buy anything. I'm just pointing out that Airtec has a plausible (even if not compelling) reason why they prefer a floating loop.

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Which begs the question of 'why is it necessary?' to double the complexity by having two electro mechanical devices (cutters) to begin with...and then try to invent a way to get around that problem - two cutters having to cut, instead of just one.

Ummm, two loops = two cutters? That is, Airtec did not create a system that requires two cutters. The inventor of the pop-top did that way before there were cutter-type AADs , and there are some good design reasons to prefer a two-pin system like a Racer over a one-pin system like a Reflex.

Mark

[koppel 3]

..... deleted my post cos I saw JS further down after i replied

but thanks to Nancy again for all the time she has taken to email and educate on their products over the years

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[JohnSherman 1]

I must take this opporitunity to comment on what I believe to be a toung & cheek post.

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Not to mention the idea of all that needlework, tacking down the pilot chute cap in umpteen places. Especially when one sees the solutions used on Reflexes, Wings, or Teardrops for many years to keep the PC cap in place. All that tacking is like some military rig from the 1950s.

Those "modern" methods might look good but they have a hidden defect. They are too heavy. Hold the spring arm high whith the orientation horizontal. Release the PC and watch the top of the spring, where all that beautiful construction is, head for the ground. I want my spring to at least stay horizontal.

When Booth was testing the teardrop, during his deliberations to buy it. He commented to me that it was the only system he had ever tested where the pilot chute went toward the ground faster than the jumper after cutaway.

I keep the top of my pilot chute as light as possible so it will launch. It is one of many considerations in designing a deployment system.

There is more to rig design than looks!
Function over Form!

[pchapman 261]

Thanks for the input.

I still wonder if a less tacking-intensive method can be found.

Your argument, in my opinion, works better when it comes to the reason for 2 pins:
By distributing the load and holding the PC down at 2 points, instead of one central point, there's less bending to be withstood, and no solid cap made of aluminum or fibreglass.

The issue of weight of pilot chutes (also in relation to spring strength) is one for which there's no one accepted concept in the industry.

There's no question that the Racer pilot chute is kept light.

[riggerrob 558]

It possible to build a light-weight Pop-Top, with only one pin.
I have built a couple of prototype containers and test-deployed them dozens of times on the ground.
Hint: there are dozens of dents in the loft ceiling.
Hah!
Hah!

[riggerrob 558]

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I'm not buying it.

I'm not asking you to buy anything. I'm just pointing out that Airtec has a plausible (even if not compelling) reason why they prefer a floating loop.

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Which begs the question of 'why is it necessary?' to double the complexity by having two electro mechanical devices (cutters) to begin with...and then try to invent a way to get around that problem - two cutters having to cut, instead of just one.

Ummm, two loops = two cutters? That is, Airtec did not create a system that requires two cutters. The inventor of the pop-top did that way before there were cutter-type AADs , and there are some good design reasons to prefer a two-pin system like a Racer over a one-pin system like a Reflex.

Mark

.........................................................................................................................

Two-pin reserve containers were fashionable - for dozens of years - before Dan Poynter invented the Pop-Top.

[BlueSBDeath 2]

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There is more to rig design than looks!
Function over Form!

"The last thing you need at two grand is pretty gear"

Still my favorite ad :)

Arvel