SkydiverRick 0 #51 September 18, 2003 A lot of people have been pulling this number out of their ass about 70% of people believing that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks on the USA.Quote I found this info at foxnews.com in about 10 seconds. I don't know how to do the clicky thing, so you'll have to look it up yourself. And if this is a Washington Post poll, why is it that I, who have lived in the DC area since 1994, have yet to encounter a single person who believes that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks?? Where the fuck is that 70%??? Maybe the DC area isn't representative of the views in other parts of the country. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #52 September 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe way this was done is called "spin" - quite common in politics. But...but...I thought FOX news was a "no spin zone?" O'Reilly has the "No Spin Zone". His is but one of many shows on Fox. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #53 September 18, 2003 QuoteMaybe the DC area isn't representative of the views in other parts of the country. well then where did they find this supposed 70%??? I just don't believe this shit. where ever was there even any suggestive evidence that Iraq was specifically involved in the 9/11 attacks?? and who are the people who believe that they were? because I haven't encountered any. Everyone I know believes that the attacks were engineered by (mostly) Arabs holing up in eastern Afghanistan....I thought this was the most prevalent viewpoint. Also soon after the attacks the newspapers all posted the names, faces, and identities of all 19 terrorists..and there wasn't a single Iraqi. So this was common knowledge. In short: I flat out do not believe the poll that 70% of Americans think Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks. I've talked to a lot of people some of who agree, and some who disagree with the war vs. Iraq. Among all of those people, why have I not found anyone who believes that Iraq was involved with 9/11??? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #54 September 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteMaybe the DC area isn't representative of the views in other parts of the country. well then where did they find this supposed 70%??? I just don't believe this shit. Quote I believe that enough people live outside of the DC area to acheive 70% (and more). never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #55 September 18, 2003 In a post BillV made on March 8 of this year, he said: "And it's working - more than 50% of people in a CNN poll thought that at least one of "the 9/11 terrorists was Iraqi, and more than 60% thought Hussein had a link to what happened"... So I went to CNN, ran a search for Poll Hussein, and this link came up... Poll from 9/17 2002 Two months later, some different questions were asked, and the results are here... Subsequent Poll And then I got to this particular poll, which is the only one I could find with "70%" of anything...and it's not that they believe SH was connected to 9/11...but rather, as far as I could tell, that 70% of the sampling was "worried" about the upcoming war... March 18, 2003 (all above links were taken from this site: CNN Search Polls)... And then I went to the Gallup site...and their analysis is subscriber only. However, I found this synopsis from October 1, 2002... And then I went searching broadly... And did locate a number. Scroll to Washington Post 8/03 This poll asks the question: "Do you think Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the September 11 terrorist attacks". the number answering somewhat/very likely was 69%. (Poll sampling data was 1003 people asked, +/1 3 MOE). It doesn't indicate if the polls were from a random sampling from one particular locality, or if it was nationwide. It also doesn't indicate where they obtained the data (website polls, telephonic polling, or "mall polling".), nor the time of day that the data was obtained (which, interestingly enough, might skew the results a bit.). So the data is there, but not from CNN that I could find. It's from another site that I've never seen nor heard about, but seems interesting (it has polls from different pollsters and from different angles). It's simply the only poll I could find with that particular question (barring purchasing a subscription to the Gallup site) at all, let alone with the respondents answering at 70%. I found far more polls which indicate GWB's approval rating at 70%... But I can't simply can't find the poll BillV quotes. But torn between me believing BillV is psychic or that he read the data somewhere, I think it's more likely he read the data. I just can't find it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vmsfreaky1 0 #56 September 18, 2003 Here is my new 'report' on the Bush family business http://freaknews.com/bushinbedwithosama.htm Bush and his family, have done more business with osama and his family than anyone else in the U.S. You want sources? fuk that. I said it, so it must be true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vmsfreaky1 0 #57 September 18, 2003 The Truth - http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm Yo! Howdy to ya'll on airstrip one! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nigel99 144 #58 September 18, 2003 Quote Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved Found the above from a google search - BBC is quoting this poll today 18/9 in an article about Bush "admitting there was no link". This morning Hans Blix came out quite strongly about the "spin" of the intellegence and seems very happy to jibe at the US/UK begging for more time, after what they put his guys through. Also on BBC at the moment (due to Hutton enquiry) is the very open admission/discussion about how much the media lies/spins/colours with their opinion actual news.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,644 #59 September 18, 2003 QuoteHere is my new 'report' on the Bush family business http://freaknews.com/bushinbedwithosama.htm Bush and his family, have done more business with osama and his family than anyone else in the U.S. You want sources? fuk that. I said it, so it must be true. Prescott Bush (GWB's granddaddy) made the family fortune by doing a lot of business with highly undersirable folks,... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #60 September 18, 2003 >What did I consider proof of what, exactly? As I recall, I said I'd want proof of a connection before we invaded to essentially punish Hussein for 9/11. You took issue with that, asking me what proof I would accept, what source I would believe etc. It sounded like you were suprised that I _didn't_ believe certain sources and accept certain proof. Did you think there was proof of a Hussein - 9/11 connection back there? Or of a Hussein-Al Qaeda connection? Were there sources and proof that you thought were valid and I didn't? >And why did you edit out your Ramzi Yousef question? Weren't you >interested in the answer? I was, but I thought better of asking it. Such questions sometimes lead to acrimonious discussions, and I figured we had enough of those in this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #61 September 18, 2003 >well then where did they find this supposed 70%??? I just don't >believe this shit. Sept. 16, 2003 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Tuesday he had no reason to believe that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had a hand in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States. At a Pentagon news conference, Rumsfeld was asked about a poll that indicated nearly 70 percent of respondents believed the Iraqi leader probably was personally involved. "I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that," Rumsfeld said. --------------- Hussein Link to 9/11 Lingers in Many Minds By Dana Milbank and Claudia Deane Washington Post Staff Writers Saturday, September 6, 2003; Page A01 Nearing the second anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, seven in 10 Americans continue to believe that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had a role in the attacks, even though the Bush administration and congressional investigators say they have no evidence of this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #62 September 18, 2003 QuoteYou took issue with that, asking me what proof I would accept, what source I would believe etc. It sounded like you were suprised that I _didn't_ believe certain sources and accept certain proof. Well, I didn't take issue with that at all, Bill. What I wanted was a listing of sources you would consider credible. Not intercepted e-mails, or whatever, but a listing of media sources etc that you would not immediately disregard. If you thought I was taking issue with that, please don't. I was asking for information. And that was from a post 6 months ago...why'd it take you this long to ask me about it? And you don't believe certain sources...and some sources you do accept aren't exactly accurate either (remember that quote you kept attributing to GWB that he didn't say?). Look, that quote was from months ago, and if you still have an issue with it, I suggest you bring it into pm's so we can resolve it without cluttering things up here. QuoteI'd want proof of a connection before we invaded to essentially punish Hussein for 9/11 I'd never said I wanted revenge for 9/11 with SH, although you continually imply that I do. In my research, I found interesting things (Salman Pak, the Ramzi Yousef connection to both Iraq and AQ, etc). But I've never once said that SH is responsible for 9/11...nor that I wanted to "punish" SH for 9/11. Your continuous intimation of that is getting rather old, BillV. So, honestly, asking me what I'd consider proof of something I don't believe is not answerable. BTW, I answered the Ramzi Yousef question some time ago...pity you didn't see it. And it didn't deteriorate into an acrimonious discussion... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #63 September 18, 2003 >Well, I didn't take issue with that at all, Bill. Hmm. So your reply " . . ..and as to the planning, would you accept a connection between Iraq and someone else high up in AQ?" was not taking issue with my request to find some link between Hussein and Al Qaeda before we tried to punish him for 9/11? Did you mean your reply to agree with my desire for a strong connection before invading, rather than dispute it? If you did not believe such links yourself, then I misread you back then. Sorry. >I'd never said I wanted revenge for 9/11 with SH, although you >continually imply that I do. I said I did not want to go after Hussein to get revenge for 9/11 until we had solid proof he was involved. You questioned me on that; to others that may have looked like you wanted revenge and was questioning why anyone would _not_ want revenge on him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FliegendeWolf 0 #64 September 18, 2003 Quote"I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that," Rumsfeld said. Could Rumsfeld have possibly hedged that statement any more? "seen any indication...lead me to believe...I could say that."A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lummy 4 #65 September 18, 2003 hmmm.. I flound this by searching CNN for "Iraqi 9/11 poll cnn". Quote BLAMING IRAQ A number of public-opinion experts agreed that the public automatically blamed Iraq, just as they would have blamed Libya if a similar attack had occurred in the 1980s. There is good evidence for this: On Sept. 13, 2001, a Time/CNN poll found that 78 percent suspected Hussein’s involvement — even though the administration had not made a connection. The belief remained consistent even as evidence to the contrary emerged. source I've also found tons of articles quoting the 70% from the Washington Post Article but also quotes a CNN poll in the same article. Interestingly enough, when I did the search, the hits came up like THIS 70 percent of Americans think Saddam Hussein tied to 9-11. ... they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was ... A Time magazine/CNN poll released Saturday said most ... Skimming thru the article, the last line stated: The Time/CNN survey of 1,003 adults was taken Sept. 3-4 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points Only after reading the article did it become clear that they were in fact quoting two polls.I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #66 September 18, 2003 QuoteCould Rumsfeld have possibly hedged that statement any more? His boss was a little more direct: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/17/sprj.irq.bush.ap/index.html Quote"There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties," the president said. But he also said, "We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11" attacks. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #67 September 18, 2003 Thanks, Lummy...I didn't go back far enough, it seems! (And also must have not used the best wording in the search, either! LOL). Appreciate it. Bill, if you want to rehash a thread, bump it up. Or, as stated, we can take it to PM's... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Michele 1 #55 September 18, 2003 In a post BillV made on March 8 of this year, he said: "And it's working - more than 50% of people in a CNN poll thought that at least one of "the 9/11 terrorists was Iraqi, and more than 60% thought Hussein had a link to what happened"... So I went to CNN, ran a search for Poll Hussein, and this link came up... Poll from 9/17 2002 Two months later, some different questions were asked, and the results are here... Subsequent Poll And then I got to this particular poll, which is the only one I could find with "70%" of anything...and it's not that they believe SH was connected to 9/11...but rather, as far as I could tell, that 70% of the sampling was "worried" about the upcoming war... March 18, 2003 (all above links were taken from this site: CNN Search Polls)... And then I went to the Gallup site...and their analysis is subscriber only. However, I found this synopsis from October 1, 2002... And then I went searching broadly... And did locate a number. Scroll to Washington Post 8/03 This poll asks the question: "Do you think Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the September 11 terrorist attacks". the number answering somewhat/very likely was 69%. (Poll sampling data was 1003 people asked, +/1 3 MOE). It doesn't indicate if the polls were from a random sampling from one particular locality, or if it was nationwide. It also doesn't indicate where they obtained the data (website polls, telephonic polling, or "mall polling".), nor the time of day that the data was obtained (which, interestingly enough, might skew the results a bit.). So the data is there, but not from CNN that I could find. It's from another site that I've never seen nor heard about, but seems interesting (it has polls from different pollsters and from different angles). It's simply the only poll I could find with that particular question (barring purchasing a subscription to the Gallup site) at all, let alone with the respondents answering at 70%. I found far more polls which indicate GWB's approval rating at 70%... But I can't simply can't find the poll BillV quotes. But torn between me believing BillV is psychic or that he read the data somewhere, I think it's more likely he read the data. I just can't find it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vmsfreaky1 0 #56 September 18, 2003 Here is my new 'report' on the Bush family business http://freaknews.com/bushinbedwithosama.htm Bush and his family, have done more business with osama and his family than anyone else in the U.S. You want sources? fuk that. I said it, so it must be true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vmsfreaky1 0 #57 September 18, 2003 The Truth - http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/index.cfm Yo! Howdy to ya'll on airstrip one! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 144 #58 September 18, 2003 Quote Sixty-nine percent in a Washington Post poll published Saturday said they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al-Qaeda. A majority of Democrats, Republicans and independents believe it's likely Saddam was involved Found the above from a google search - BBC is quoting this poll today 18/9 in an article about Bush "admitting there was no link". This morning Hans Blix came out quite strongly about the "spin" of the intellegence and seems very happy to jibe at the US/UK begging for more time, after what they put his guys through. Also on BBC at the moment (due to Hutton enquiry) is the very open admission/discussion about how much the media lies/spins/colours with their opinion actual news.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #59 September 18, 2003 QuoteHere is my new 'report' on the Bush family business http://freaknews.com/bushinbedwithosama.htm Bush and his family, have done more business with osama and his family than anyone else in the U.S. You want sources? fuk that. I said it, so it must be true. Prescott Bush (GWB's granddaddy) made the family fortune by doing a lot of business with highly undersirable folks,... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #60 September 18, 2003 >What did I consider proof of what, exactly? As I recall, I said I'd want proof of a connection before we invaded to essentially punish Hussein for 9/11. You took issue with that, asking me what proof I would accept, what source I would believe etc. It sounded like you were suprised that I _didn't_ believe certain sources and accept certain proof. Did you think there was proof of a Hussein - 9/11 connection back there? Or of a Hussein-Al Qaeda connection? Were there sources and proof that you thought were valid and I didn't? >And why did you edit out your Ramzi Yousef question? Weren't you >interested in the answer? I was, but I thought better of asking it. Such questions sometimes lead to acrimonious discussions, and I figured we had enough of those in this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #61 September 18, 2003 >well then where did they find this supposed 70%??? I just don't >believe this shit. Sept. 16, 2003 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Tuesday he had no reason to believe that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had a hand in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States. At a Pentagon news conference, Rumsfeld was asked about a poll that indicated nearly 70 percent of respondents believed the Iraqi leader probably was personally involved. "I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that," Rumsfeld said. --------------- Hussein Link to 9/11 Lingers in Many Minds By Dana Milbank and Claudia Deane Washington Post Staff Writers Saturday, September 6, 2003; Page A01 Nearing the second anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, seven in 10 Americans continue to believe that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had a role in the attacks, even though the Bush administration and congressional investigators say they have no evidence of this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #62 September 18, 2003 QuoteYou took issue with that, asking me what proof I would accept, what source I would believe etc. It sounded like you were suprised that I _didn't_ believe certain sources and accept certain proof. Well, I didn't take issue with that at all, Bill. What I wanted was a listing of sources you would consider credible. Not intercepted e-mails, or whatever, but a listing of media sources etc that you would not immediately disregard. If you thought I was taking issue with that, please don't. I was asking for information. And that was from a post 6 months ago...why'd it take you this long to ask me about it? And you don't believe certain sources...and some sources you do accept aren't exactly accurate either (remember that quote you kept attributing to GWB that he didn't say?). Look, that quote was from months ago, and if you still have an issue with it, I suggest you bring it into pm's so we can resolve it without cluttering things up here. QuoteI'd want proof of a connection before we invaded to essentially punish Hussein for 9/11 I'd never said I wanted revenge for 9/11 with SH, although you continually imply that I do. In my research, I found interesting things (Salman Pak, the Ramzi Yousef connection to both Iraq and AQ, etc). But I've never once said that SH is responsible for 9/11...nor that I wanted to "punish" SH for 9/11. Your continuous intimation of that is getting rather old, BillV. So, honestly, asking me what I'd consider proof of something I don't believe is not answerable. BTW, I answered the Ramzi Yousef question some time ago...pity you didn't see it. And it didn't deteriorate into an acrimonious discussion... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #63 September 18, 2003 >Well, I didn't take issue with that at all, Bill. Hmm. So your reply " . . ..and as to the planning, would you accept a connection between Iraq and someone else high up in AQ?" was not taking issue with my request to find some link between Hussein and Al Qaeda before we tried to punish him for 9/11? Did you mean your reply to agree with my desire for a strong connection before invading, rather than dispute it? If you did not believe such links yourself, then I misread you back then. Sorry. >I'd never said I wanted revenge for 9/11 with SH, although you >continually imply that I do. I said I did not want to go after Hussein to get revenge for 9/11 until we had solid proof he was involved. You questioned me on that; to others that may have looked like you wanted revenge and was questioning why anyone would _not_ want revenge on him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #64 September 18, 2003 Quote"I've not seen any indication that would lead me to believe that I could say that," Rumsfeld said. Could Rumsfeld have possibly hedged that statement any more? "seen any indication...lead me to believe...I could say that."A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #65 September 18, 2003 hmmm.. I flound this by searching CNN for "Iraqi 9/11 poll cnn". Quote BLAMING IRAQ A number of public-opinion experts agreed that the public automatically blamed Iraq, just as they would have blamed Libya if a similar attack had occurred in the 1980s. There is good evidence for this: On Sept. 13, 2001, a Time/CNN poll found that 78 percent suspected Hussein’s involvement — even though the administration had not made a connection. The belief remained consistent even as evidence to the contrary emerged. source I've also found tons of articles quoting the 70% from the Washington Post Article but also quotes a CNN poll in the same article. Interestingly enough, when I did the search, the hits came up like THIS 70 percent of Americans think Saddam Hussein tied to 9-11. ... they believe it is likely the Iraqi leader was ... A Time magazine/CNN poll released Saturday said most ... Skimming thru the article, the last line stated: The Time/CNN survey of 1,003 adults was taken Sept. 3-4 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points Only after reading the article did it become clear that they were in fact quoting two polls.I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #66 September 18, 2003 QuoteCould Rumsfeld have possibly hedged that statement any more? His boss was a little more direct: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/09/17/sprj.irq.bush.ap/index.html Quote"There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties," the president said. But he also said, "We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11" attacks. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #67 September 18, 2003 Thanks, Lummy...I didn't go back far enough, it seems! (And also must have not used the best wording in the search, either! LOL). Appreciate it. Bill, if you want to rehash a thread, bump it up. Or, as stated, we can take it to PM's... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
