Divalent 89
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Unstable 8
QuoteGood question. I'm thinking I can keep packing reserves if the reserve is packed in accordance with the mfgs. instructions. I have the Argus manual in PDF as well. On the other hand, the majority of rigs I pack with an Argus have withdrawn their approval for Argus so the issue may be moot.
I'd bet this logic will work up til an Argus is due for a 4-year. I sent one in to Chutingstar for calibration, and it was a very quick and easy process. Once the Calibration centers cease to exist, then what? I figure I will continue to use mine (I have a Jumpshack rig) but the calibration is due here next repack ~ I fear I will have a doorstop then.
=========Shaun ==========
Ron 7
Quote
On another note, were you in Dallas in November 1963?
No, Bill was too busy training 727 exits for November 24, 1971
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Ron 7
QuoteAll I see is Karel's letter. There's no link to the rest of the site, no buttons, nothing. They've essentially taken their whole site offline.
So I can't even look up some other Argus related information, unrelated to the cutter issue.
I was afraid that might happen.
Glide path/Flight Concepts anyone????
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
pchapman 262
Quote, my friend that was almost killed by a [tandem] cypres 2 asked airtec what the problem was....
NO ANSWER...
That sort of thing deserves its own separate thread!
Even if a thread fades away, it would be nice if you would put everything you wrote about it in a place of its own, Rhys.
We have to keep bugging the companies no matter which ones they are.
Vigil tends to respond with showing the output graphs of the unit, even if their explanation is usually just a useless "it worked like it was supposed to".
QuoteVigil tends to respond with showing the output graphs of the unit, even if their explanation is usually just a useless "it worked like it was supposed to".
Again, that's the key difference between the Cypres2 and Vigil problems, and the Argus problem.
Maybe the Cypres2 and Vigil software didn't account for something, or maybe the jumpers invovled discovered a unique set of circumstacnes, but to the computer in their rig, the firing perameters were met, the AAD fired, cut the loop and so on.
The implication is that if the perameters were met through conventional means (as-in smoking through 750ft at better than 78mph), the units would also fire, cut the loop, and yada, yada, yada.
The Argus problem is that the potential for not cutting the loop exists, so if the jumpers gets the AAD to meet the firing perameters, either legitamely or through a low pull or aggressive car truck slamming, the AAD may fire, but the loop will not be cut. In the case of a low pull or trunk slam, I guess that's good (sort of), but in the case of legitmately meeting the firing perameters on a skydive, that's very, very bad.
As previously discussed, the current AAD firing altitudes have little to no room for anything to go wrong if the jumper intends to land with a fully inflated reserve. If a PC hesitaion is enough to snivel you into the ground, and you fire your AAD and don't get a reserve PC launch, you are going to die because you cannot afford the delay of pulling your own handle at that point.
rhys 0
Quote:
In Reply To
, my friend that was almost killed by a [tandem] cypres 2 asked airtec what the problem was....
NO ANSWER...
That sort of thing deserves its own separate thread!
Even if a thread fades away, it would be nice if you would put everything you wrote about it in a place of its own, Rhys.
We have to keep bugging the companies no matter which ones they are.
Vigil tends to respond with showing the output graphs of the unit, even if their explanation is usually just a useless "it worked like it was supposed to".
I have seached and searched for the thread about it. with no luck.
What I do remember is that there was a list of potentially effected units published... that was quite long.
I discussed this with the ownr of argus at the world meet in France in 2008.
This is where it becomes relevant to this thread...
He told me he was informed by the company that produces a certain sensor (built in switzerland from memory) that is used in argus, vigil and cypres, that a batch of sensors were potentially faulty.
He sent back the sensor units and halted production in the meantime.... shortly after that, the incident I am talking about happened...
So did airtec let a bunch of faulty units go out when they had been informed about a potential danger???
That is pure speculation but it sure seems that way. The timing was close and the cypres that fired was new. What was fixed on the recalled units? I bet airtec arent willing to say...
If any of the riggers out there remeber when a list of affected cypres 2 units was published then this may help find the thread about it, I have looked. It was around 2008 from memory but not too sure...
I just remember asking my buddy all the time what airtec had to say about it.... absolutely nothing... He could have died along with his passenger.
If the results of the tests that are putting Argus units into question are not being released to the public or to aviacom, and the manufacturers of certain systems are banning the use of Argus units based on information that is not available, and all the while aviacom are not being issued with the information to assist them in resolving any potential issue. Then this moves away from safety and into the realm of corruption and monopolisation. All at the expense of the skydiving community.
There is alot more of this type of conduct going on than we are lead to beleive.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
QuoteQuoteGood question. I'm thinking I can keep packing reserves if the reserve is packed in accordance with the mfgs. instructions. I have the Argus manual in PDF as well. On the other hand, the majority of rigs I pack with an Argus have withdrawn their approval for Argus so the issue may be moot.
I'd bet this logic will work up til an Argus is due for a 4-year. I sent one in to Chutingstar for calibration, and it was a very quick and easy process. Once the Calibration centers cease to exist, then what? I figure I will continue to use mine (I have a Jumpshack rig) but the calibration is due here next repack ~ I fear I will have a doorstop then.
Hopefully Mike will still be able to take care of yours and others. But, like you said. If Argus goes down there will be a lot of doorstops out there. It is probably obvious but I think this is but the tip of the S*&T storm to come.
Unstable 8
QuoteHopefully Mike will still be able to take care of yours and others. But, like you said. If Argus goes down there will be a lot of doorstops out there. It is probably obvious but I think this is but the tip of the S*&T storm to come.
I'm really cheering for Aviacom to get this sorted out without going under ~
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
=========Shaun ==========
rhys 0
QuoteIf any of the riggers out there remeber when a list of affected cypres 2 units was published then this may help find the thread about it, I have looked. It was around 2008 from memory but not too sure...
Ok so a rigger that I will let remain anonymous had given me a link to the bulliten released by airtec on the issue. as well as other information.
http://www.cypres.cc/images/stories/storypictures/service_bulletin_april_2008_e.pdf
QuoteBackground :
Earlier this year we experienced two unwanted activations in Australia. Nobody was hurt. Both
units have been examined extensively at Airtec, with the finding that a defective sensor caused the
activation in both cases.
Ah ha! so what was the date when the company that informed airtec that the sensors were faulty and what was the date of the incident, I cannot be too sure but that information is out there.
Also Nobody got hurt; are you fucking kidding me, Andre was shitting out of another hole in his anus, he was out of work for weeks and his passenger was bruised up pretty bad too. It should say 'one was a tandem and they were lucky to not be very seriously injured', what a bunch of lies!!
I have also been informed that it is not uncommon for cypres issue threads to simply dissapear off this website, If anyone remembers any threads about cypres mishaps that they cannot find anymore please let us all know about it.
the thread about andres cypres fire is not there anymore, maybe i overlooked but it seems it has been deleted and there is only one reason why that would have been done.
This whole thing is rather fishy.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
PhreeZone 15
You have stated this over and over and I will remind you AGAIN that this is not true. I have searched and searched the entire archive of all the threads and there are none that are directly related to a "cypres incident" that have been removed from the site.QuoteI have also been informed that it is not uncommon for cypres issue threads to simply dissapear off this website, If anyone remembers any threads about cypres mishaps that they cannot find anymore please let us all know about it.
I found multiple threads where you discuss the issue and not a single one of these has been removed:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3571702
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3571525
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3261134
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3262290
Please stop insinuating that there is a conspiracy that moderators of this website are involved in since there are only 2-3 of us in this gear forum and we are not doing any removal of threads to "support or hide" information for anyone.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
rhys 0
QuoteYou have stated this over and over and I will remind you AGAIN that this is not true. I have searched and searched the entire archive of all the threads and there are none that are directly related to a "cypres incident" that have been removed from the site.
Like I stated 'I was informed' it was not uncommon, I was informed about it in a PM (ie. as in by somebody else as stated), and you should be able to check up on that.
I appologise if I am incorrect on that, but I have had a number of posts removed for no reason other than to protect the moderator that (seriously and criminally)accused me of something I did not do, (look at DSE's trash can).
So after my experiences there I would not be surprised.
I was completely incorrect about the threadon the incident being removed, i found it but it does not appear to be nearly as long as i remember and does not have any input from me. I may be mistaken so i appologise once more if I am incorrect
I was pretty sure I remember contributing to the origional thread on the incident but is it only a half a dozen posts long now pretty short for such a major mishap. I do not know who to beleive.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
PhreeZone 15
QuoteLike I stated 'I was informed' it was not uncommon, I was informed about it in a PM (ie. as in by somebody else as stated), and you should be able to check up on that.
Once again you are incorrect. We do not have the ability to read private messages so I have no ability to "check up on that".
I just checked and you did not reply to the thread in the incidents forum that you are referring to so your memory is wrong on that one also.
If any one would like to have a conversation with myself about any suspected threads that may have been removed from the Gear and Rigging Forum they can PM me and I will more than happy to show that the moderators of this website are not editing threads for a commercial purpose.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
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