captainpooby 0 #1 December 5, 2003 http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_1874.shtml " Tom DeWeese -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The UN Wants to Control the Internet By Tom DeWeese Dec 5, 2003, 00:05 Throughout the history of mankind, any time the spark of liberty has been ignited, one force or another has rushed to extinguish it. Today, in a world already suffocating under the weight of rules and regulations designed to control, tax and consume every outlet of human expression, the Internet stands as the only unregulated source of liberty in the world. True to form, the United Nations is holding yet another international gathering to plot the takeover of the Internet. Meeting in Geneva, Switzerland, government diplomats and non-governmental organizations (NGO’s) have gathered at the World Information Summit to discuss the “role of the media,” in order to set “acceptable boundaries to freedom of expression.” Acceptable to whom? Nations like Brazil, India, China, and Saudi Arabia are among those pushing to have the UN take over control of the Internet. They argue that the Internet is a public resource that should be managed by national governments and, at an international level, by an intergovernmental body such as the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), the UN agency responsible for organizing the information summit." "You can take my keyboard from my cold dead hands..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #2 December 5, 2003 BIG can of worms. Whooo Boy. . . [sarcastic]Better get Algore back, he invented it you know.[/sarcastic]I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #3 December 5, 2003 Ok...so I'll have to travel to Geneva so those guys CAN KISS MY ASS!!!__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #4 December 5, 2003 I'm not too worried about it. They'll just talk about it for years. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #5 December 5, 2003 Fortunately, they'll end up talking about it for years, and the US won't let it happen anyway. The UN has no real benefit.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tinfoil 0 #6 December 5, 2003 If everyone didn't notice, its a commentary. But I think it could be a good thing, it could give people the ability to share their story when they otherwise might not have a chance. “- - Sumo is the greatest of sports. It has power, grace, speed and cluture. And most importantly, two fat bastards smacking the shit out of each other. ” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tinfoil 0 #7 December 5, 2003 QuoteThe UN has no real benefit. Then why has the US been asking for the UN's help in Iraq? But outside of current events, do you think the world would be no better or worse if the UN hadn't been established? “- - Sumo is the greatest of sports. It has power, grace, speed and cluture. And most importantly, two fat bastards smacking the shit out of each other. ” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 December 5, 2003 QuoteIf everyone didn't notice, its a commentary. But I think it could be a good thing, it could give people the ability to share their story when they otherwise might not have a chance. What does this mean? In China, noone has a chance to "share" any story without oversight. Without any regulation, you and I can say what we want. UN involvement in anything does not equal "good". So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captainpooby 0 #9 December 5, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe UN has no real benefit. Then why has the US been asking for the UN's help in Iraq? But outside of current events, do you think the world would be no better or worse if the UN hadn't been established? Not a fair question. I pick C: Way better off without. We asked because of protocol even though the UN is a toothless irrelevant org. NATO, on the other hand, is a relevant org. It can back up itself with might. If you want, I will flood this thread with proof of the lack of credibility of the UN. Its at best socialist. At worst, Marxist. FUN. Here's a start: "Stanley A. Weiss Articles International Herald Tribune Friday, May 17, 2002 A Charade of Bullies Feigning Decency Human Rights Commision WASHINGTON--While the international community was distracted by accusations of human rights violations in the West Bank, an outrage with global repercussions recently unfolded at the annual session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights. Some of the world's most brutal dictatorships are making a mockery of the world's highest human rights body. How tainted is today's commission? Just compare its membership against the ranking of democracies published annually by independent, nonprofit Freedom House, based in New York. Of the commission's 53 member nations, 29, or 55 percent, are rated only partly free or not free by Freedom House, meaning that they have little or no respect for basic civil liberties or political rights. The commission, which is intended to "examine, monitor and publicly report" human rights abuses, includes such not-free regimes as Communist China, with its criminal record on human rights and violent repression of religious minorities. There are Congo and Algeria, whose security forces regularly torture and murder civilians with impunity. And Communist Vietnam, which continues to stamp out any hint of dissent. And there is partly-free Russia, whose forces in Chechnya have killed thousands of civilians, left hundreds of thousands homeless and been accused of widespread rape and torture. Of the 10 regimes ranked worst by Freedom House, half - Fidel Castro's Cuba, Moammar Gadhafi's Libya, female-oppressing Saudi Arabia, slave-trading Sudan and terrorist-supporting Syria - have seats on the commission. How did these habitual abusers come to dominate the body designed to police them? Blame the complex dynamics of the United Nations, which too often put politics above principle. As in all UN bodies, membership on the commission is based on regional quotas - 15 seats for Africa, 12 for Asia, and so on. A nation's human rights record is not a criterion. In most cases, regions decide who will represent them during three-year terms. Only when a region offers more candidates that it has seats does something like a real election occur, by secret ballot of the 54-member UN Social and Economic Council, which oversees the commission. It was this secret vote that booted the United States out last year for the first time since the commission's founding in 1947. The 21 nations of the so-called Western European and Other Group had offered four candidates for three seats. (The United States recently regained its seat for the 2003-2005 period.) Meanwhile, the African bloc selected Libya and Algeria, and the Asian bloc selected Saudi Arabia and Syria. The commission's recent session in Geneva in some cases followed the old practice of shaming by naming - for example, highlighting abuses by Iraq and Cuba. But the real shame was vote after vote in which an alliance of abusers united to defeat condemnations of their own miserable behavior. For the first time in two decades, the commission voted not to criticize Iran for its record of religious and political persecution. Among the 20 commission members providing cover for the Islamic Republic were fellow oppressors Saudi Arabia, Libya and Pakistan, joined by China and Cuba. An Iranian diplomat called the vote a "great victory." Russia was spared criticism of its brutal Chechnya campaign, thanks to the support of China, Syria and Cuba - dictatorships which then joined in repeatedly condemning the West Bank incursions by Israel. Instead of watching for abuse, members once again watched one another's backs. Nigeria, which stands accused of massacring thousands of its citizens in recent years, voted to prevent debate on Chinese abuses. China, in turn, backed a Nigerian motion to prevent condemnation of Robert Mugabe, the Zimbabwe strongman who rigged his March re-election after violently repressing political opponents. President Jiang Zemin then traveled to Nigeria to express China's gratitude for the African regime's help in protecting "the legitimate rights and interests of the developing world." Nigeria took the lead in persuading the commission to end the regular human rights monitoring of its neighbor Equatorial Guinea, known for torturing and imprisoning opponents of the ruling regime. That was just weeks after the two nations resolved a long dispute over their maritime border and access to the oil-rich Gulf of Guinea. Acknowledging allegations of the commission's "increased politicization," the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson, called on members to engage in "deep reflection." African members reflected, then granted a seat to Zimbabwe. Robinson warned delegates as they left Geneva that "if the commission is not able to act for the protection of those whose rights are being violated on a massive scale," it would "lose its essence." If the United Nations is to realize the lofty goals of its founders, prying this important human rights body out of the bloody hands of the world's worst abusers would be a good place to start. " If you support the UN....bring it on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tinfoil 0 #10 December 5, 2003 QuoteQuoteIf everyone didn't notice, its a commentary. But I think it could be a good thing, it could give people the ability to share their story when they otherwise might not have a chance. What does this mean? In China, noone has a chance to "share" any story without oversight. Without any regulation, you and I can say what we want. UN involvement in anything does not equal "good". I meant that UN involvement might give everyone the freedom you and I share. But we have that freedom because of rights, the freedom of speech or freedom of expression. Those are regulations; they govern conduct. My hope would be that the UN could bring something similar to everyone who uses the internet. “- - Sumo is the greatest of sports. It has power, grace, speed and cluture. And most importantly, two fat bastards smacking the shit out of each other. ” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #11 December 5, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteIf everyone didn't notice, its a commentary. But I think it could be a good thing, it could give people the ability to share their story when they otherwise might not have a chance. What does this mean? In China, noone has a chance to "share" any story without oversight. Without any regulation, you and I can say what we want. UN involvement in anything does not equal "good". I meant that UN involvement might give everyone the freedom you and I share. But we have that freedom because of rights, the freedom of speech or freedom of expression. Those are regulations; they govern conduct. My hope would be that the UN could bring something similar to everyone who uses the internet. Your hope is honorable, but the UN is not a governing body, so it's pretty moot. Our freedoms are not regulations. Any conduct we follow is essentially by choice, which may, in turn, influence what we say, how we say it, and when we say it. That, in itself does not diminish the 1st Amendment in the US Constitution (I don't know of a Canadian counterpart per se).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tinfoil 0 #12 December 5, 2003 Yea, you won't see me hide that fact that the UN is not perfect. It has fucked up in the past, like in Rwanda, where 800 000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were slaughtered by Hutu extremists while peacekeepers did nothing, in fact withdrew when the killings started. But to say the world would be better off without the UN, makes my head hurt. In the Suez Canal crisis, the UN intervened and stopped what could have lead the US attacking British, French, and Israel. Or at the very least destabilize the entire region. The UN set the bases for peace after the six day war, put ozone layer depletion on the international agenda, eliminated smallpox, and helped god knows how many countries gain independence and hold independent election. Two Nobel Peace prizes don't lie, the UN has done a very good job of its original mandate, encourage world peace. As the article you posted pointed out, countries have their own agendas. And that causes a lot of bickering, but at least they still talk. Yes, in recent years, the UN has lost some of its glory, the US showed that when it went to war with Iraq. But just because of that, you can't just cast it aside. “- - Sumo is the greatest of sports. It has power, grace, speed and cluture. And most importantly, two fat bastards smacking the shit out of each other. ” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tinfoil 0 #13 December 5, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIf everyone didn't notice, its a commentary. But I think it could be a good thing, it could give people the ability to share their story when they otherwise might not have a chance. What does this mean? In China, noone has a chance to "share" any story without oversight. Without any regulation, you and I can say what we want. UN involvement in anything does not equal "good". I meant that UN involvement might give everyone the freedom you and I share. But we have that freedom because of rights, the freedom of speech or freedom of expression. Those are regulations; they govern conduct. My hope would be that the UN could bring something similar to everyone who uses the internet. Your hope is honorable, but the UN is not a governing body, so it's pretty moot. Our freedoms are not regulations. Any conduct we follow is essentially by choice, which may, in turn, influence what we say, how we say it, and when we say it. That, in itself does not diminish the 1st Amendment in the US Constitution (I don't know of a Canadian counterpart per se). Wow, well said And I think your right, the typically the UN nothing nothing with out the member nations enforcementand support. So internet regulation would be a change in roles for any committee that was given the job of regulating the internet. As for the rest, I don't have any argument. Only that freedoms are protected by regulations (which I might have already said, I'm not sure). “- - Sumo is the greatest of sports. It has power, grace, speed and cluture. And most importantly, two fat bastards smacking the shit out of each other. ” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #14 December 5, 2003 I get really pissed when Americans and others say UN is a no good organisation. I got friends and acquaintances wearing the blue helmet. Some were (and are) in former Yugoslavia. Others are spread over the world. They demine areas, bring food, protection and hope to a desperate population. They're shot at, intimidated, blown up and often live under harsh conditions. I can dig up (if I am allowed to post it) a picture of a Dutch fellow (also a skydiver) who's vehicle was blown to pieces by a landmine and who miraculously survived, although with pretty bad injuries. These guys are out there - not for their COUNTRY, like a blind patriot, but for the world. They're out not to conquer or secure some political or economical interest but to help their fellow man. Those that go are highly devoted men and let me assure you that what they do is in no way less than what the American soldiers have done and are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The world is full of thankless ignorant people who lay no energy or thought into the trials and tribulations of the man on the ground wearing the blue helmet, driving the white painted vehicles. I say give them their due. When you diss the whole of UN and call it ineffective, you're also dissing what these men and women are doing - and sometimes DIE doing. Why do they do it? A former class mate who's a mine clearer said, with a crooked smile, "for the money. And the chicks". But we were both aware that it was a combination of thrill seeking, an adventurous spirit and a desire to make a difference. Some of the finest qualities in the human animal, and some that have made humans what they are today. Off the soap box now. Just think about it - these guys/girls are risking their lives out there - some gratitude/appreciation is in order. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #15 December 5, 2003 Quote These guys are out there - not for their COUNTRY, like a blind patriot, but for the world. They're out not to conquer or secure some political or economical interest but to help their fellow man. Those that go are highly devoted men and let me assure you that what they do is in no way less than what the American soldiers have done and are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The world is full of thankless ignorant people who lay no energy or thought into the trials and tribulations of the man on the ground wearing the blue helmet, driving the white painted vehicles. I say give them their due. When you diss the whole of UN and call it ineffective, you're also dissing what these men and women are doing - and sometimes DIE doing. Why do they do it? A former class mate who's a mine clearer said, with a crooked smile, "for the money. And the chicks". But we were both aware that it was a combination of thrill seeking, an adventurous spirit and a desire to make a difference. Some of the finest qualities in the human animal, and some that have made humans what they are today. Off the soap box now. Just think about it - these guys/girls are risking their lives out there - some gratitude/appreciation is in order. Hear, hear! Very well put. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 December 5, 2003 They can try and try all they want, they will never have full control of the Internet. Its too big and too easy to hide in.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tailgate 0 #17 December 5, 2003 OOOOOOOOOOOOOH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! This could start hundreds of useless resolutions to which no one will pay attention. Let us hope the UN is as potent on this issue as they have been in the past. _________________________________________________ Let me live in my house by the side of the road and be a friend to man- Sam Walter Foss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatever 0 #18 December 5, 2003 Quote "You can take my keyboard from my cold dead hands..." having read a fair amount of your posts and people's replies, I'm pretty sure there's some posters out there who'd like to take you up on that.... soon to be gone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #19 December 5, 2003 QuoteI meant that UN involvement might give everyone the freedom you and I share. But we have that freedom because of rights, the freedom of speech or freedom of expression. Those are regulations; they govern conduct. My hope would be that the UN could bring something similar to everyone who uses the internet. With no regulation, we have that now. The countries who are in favor of it are China and Saudi Arabia. Saudia Arabia - welcome to the 4th century. No freedom of expression there. If the UN provides oversight, then how would they do that? If you post an "unacceptable" website, they come visit you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #20 December 5, 2003 My big worry is just that the UN will vote on some method to charge the US for the rest of the world's internet usage. for fairness that's a theme lately ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #21 December 5, 2003 Quote"You can take my keyboard from my cold dead hands..." I'd like someone to make spammers cold and dead.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #22 December 5, 2003 Seems logical to me. There are international agreements on commerce and communication for other methods, why should the internet be any different? It's not like they're going to control what individual nations can do within their own borders, but I'm a little sick of all the open relays in S. America and E. Europe that spammers use. Maybe some international pressure will get these countries to crack down a little. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captainpooby 0 #23 December 5, 2003 "The UN set the bases for peace after the six day war, put ozone layer depletion on the international agenda, eliminated smallpox, and helped god knows how many countries gain independence and hold independent election. Two Nobel Peace prizes don't lie, the UN has done a very good job of its original mandate, encourage world peace." Peace after the six days war? Dont you read the papers? Nobel peace prize winner: Yassar Arafat. Yeah, that's credibilty. No lies there. Encourage world peace? Again, turn on your TV. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #24 December 5, 2003 Quote...have gathered at the World Information Summit to discuss the “role of the media,” in order to set “acceptable boundaries to freedom of expression.” Acceptable to whom? Are you ok with Saudi Arabia determining what is acceptable content on your website? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
