quatorze 1 #51 December 1, 2003 Quotehttp://www.silentlambs.org/index.cfm Harmless? Rattlesnakes are harmless if you stay away from them I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #52 December 1, 2003 QuoteI'll tell you exactly why I dislike the Jehova's Witness group - excommunication (or disfellowship). When you commit what is deemed a sin and disobey god's law (determined by a judgement of church elders) then you are disfellowshipped and removed from the church. Other JW's will then treat such a person as if they do not exist (this is demanded of them unless they also with to be excommunicated) regardless of how you were related before. My child's mother comitted a sin by having a kid out of marriage and was removed. Her own mother does not speak to her now. Now who in their right mind would not talk to their own child because they have been removed from the group? I'd like to see anyone try to tell me to not talk to my child because they had comitted such a sin. I'd walk right out. It's not as if she commited murder but yet she was treated with contempt. Not exactly what Jesus would do. I'm not against religion, each person has his/her own beliefs and I respect that, but I think this particular practice is especially vile and it has touched someone I love. I respect religions that teach love and understanding for each other, not hate for the world. http://watchtower.observer.org/ I have no problem with your opinion; it is based on fact. That is all I ask is that you dislike them based on FACT and not rumor or misinformation. Thank you for stating a VALID, RESEARCHED opinion. ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #53 December 1, 2003 QuoteThere are addictive personalities in both religions and skydiving. In those cases it is the addictive personality, not the sport/religion, that needs to be dealt with. I can't state that all people who are JWs have an addictive personality. There may be an extreme emotional need that drives someone to a religion of that sort. That may qualify it as an addiction, but I don't know if the definition holds. I am just relating the rules that they live by and stating the impacts that these rules will have on their lives. I wouldn't necessarily recommend to a non-skydiver dating a skydiver is a good idea either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quatorze 1 #54 December 1, 2003 QuoteIn some instances, it is much like Muslims...there are the "mainstream" and there are the "extremists". It seems to me that everyone who has had a relationship with the members of a hall, save for you, has seen "extreme" actions, and as far and wide as this forum reaches people, and as many different people/locales/cultures are present, when do the extreme actions become the norm and the moderate actions of the relationships you have described become the exception? I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #55 December 1, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuoteAND THEY DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING FROM YOU. They take no money, no possessions from you. They don't even "pass a plate" for donations. They have no such thing as "becoming one of the CHOSEN" either. Do a little research before you make a total fool of yourself. Let me repeat that I don't support them, but they ARE totally harmless. your saying that Smilies partner is worth nothing? dont get me wrong i get it,but if they demand that J.W. has to isolate other"non belivings" then they DO harm.. this said i has some freinds that were J.W. i just made then clear that i wont belive in that,and i rather be free of listen to it.They has acsepted it,so to me they do no harm.. And that is exactly as it should be. Their belief of "bad association spoils useful habits" shouldn't be taken to the extreme. They believe that they should set an example for others, and how can they set a good example by dropping all of their relationships? Also, there is no mandate that says that you have to leave your SO, you just have to work hard to make it work. Like I said, it's a very restrictive faith, and it's hard to follow, much less get along with someone who practices the faith... "Faith"..."FAITH"?! More like "Cult 45"... mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cindee 0 #56 December 1, 2003 QuoteYou've just defined the changes many people go through when they start skydiving. I know a lot of people who are now broke, have lost most of their old friends, have no other social life than skydiving, and who derive most of their happiness from jumping. And unlike being a JW, skydiving can definitely kill you. There are addictive personalities in both religions and skydiving. In those cases it is the addictive personality, not the sport/religion, that needs to be dealt with. I was thinking the same thing. Skydiving is a lifestyle and so are some religions. Skydivers refer to non-skydivers as "whuffos", and Jehovah Witnesses refer to non JW people as "Worldly". I would not classify either as a cult, because neither are following the teaching of a human. Both are lifestyles that can be difficult for loved ones not participating. How many times have we seen posts about dating or marrying whuffos? Why, because the whuffo would not understand the passion of skydiving, but knowing how great it is, we try to convince them. The JW's are doing the same thing.__________________________________________________ "If happy little bluebirds fly above the rainbow, why oh why can't I?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #57 December 1, 2003 Quotehey- what would you do if your partner in life has made serious decision to become a jehovah witness (he apparently has taken 2 yrs. to decide this path) He has chosen a path in his life I will not be part of any way- any how- never. Not religious myself- never have been but my reaction besides "shock" is we are on completely different paths and people do change....I love him and have for 22 years....it is time to go our separate ways. My reaction I will stew over but really do not know what so called Jehovah Witness's are about- except from what I've heard around here and there...maybe I am over reacting???.....Merry Xmas!! SMiles Humm, Here I thought it was another gun thread.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beej 0 #58 December 1, 2003 Quote I was thinking the same thing. Skydiving is a lifestyle and so are some religions. You can even get injured being a JW. Like the one who put his foot against my front door so I couldnt close it on him...I then preceded to 'close' my front door rather violently, resulting in him having fractures. I called an ambulance for him tho ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #59 December 1, 2003 Here's a good one....7th day adventists came to our house to recruit. They're another cult like small christian sect. They started explaining to my dad something about how only 144.000 people will get into heaven at the time of the rapture. So my dad said, "Why the hell are you trying to recruit me, then? You're just ruining your own chances." Then he politely shut the door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #60 December 2, 2003 Smiles, Send me a PM and I'll send you a book to help. Regardless of what anyone states, they may be a religion however, religion has nothing to do with God. They are a cult and it is easy to expose. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #61 December 2, 2003 Amber, Then I must ask. Do you not care about them? If you believe in God then you know what He requires. If the love is true then Smiles can lead by example and love him away from the JW program. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #62 December 2, 2003 Shawn, As a "care giver" you must have seen God at work in some of your disabled patients. Are you educated in the medical field or sciences? Just a question. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #63 December 2, 2003 The man or "head of the house" is responsible for all decisions. That means if my wife talks me into a bad situation it's still my fault. Now find fault with that. Welcome to the "real world". Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #64 December 2, 2003 Bill, So can JW. Just read the following.... Quote Since the requirement that blood be poured out is contained in the Mosaic Law, and not repeated in the Greek scriptures, and since Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, why would it be wrong to store your own blood before an operation? You are mistaken. The apostles specifically included in their injunction the order to also abstain "from what is strangled." If an animal had been strangled it could not have been properly bled in accord with the Jewish Law. Moreover, the apostles acknowledged that these precepts came from the Mosaic Law. Acts 15:19-21 reads: "Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. For from ancient times Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath." Of course, the Law of Moses applied to animal blood being poured out. But, long before the Law came into existence, God laid claim upon the blood of every man as well as of animals. Genesis 9:4-5 God says: "Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat. And, besides that, your blood of your souls shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his brother, shall I ask back the soul of man." Since Noah is the forefather of everyone alive today, his blood being the source of our blood, the covenant that God made with him after the Deluge is binding upon all of mankind. Jehovah owns our life. And since the blood in our veins is what sustains our life while we are alive, Jehovah specifically lays claim to the blood of every living soul. In the Garden of Eden, Jehovah claimed sole ownership of one very special tree in the garden—the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. The result of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit of that tree is well known. Basically, Adam and Eve became fruit thieves. They took and ate something that did not belong to them. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that since God specifically lays claim to our blood, and it is self-evident he has only given us our life-blood conditionally, it is therefore inappropriate to donate or even store for future reuse, something that does not really belong to us. Taken from their web page. Any questions? Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moodyskydiver 0 #65 December 2, 2003 QuoteAmber, Then I must ask. Do you not care about them? If you believe in God then you know what He requires. If the love is true then Smiles can lead by example and love him away from the JW program. No, I care about them and never said she couldnt care/love him outside of their relationship.They just have different paths for their lives.I still care about and love people from my past,but our paths just werent going the same direction so we parted ways. I also never said I still considered myself Christian or said I still believed in God...I said I wasnt going to argue about religion.I am a spiritual person but have turned away from organized religion.And just because I might be christian or believe in God doesnt necessarily mean I "know what he requires" since most religions believe different doctrine on what is required by a higher power. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #66 December 2, 2003 QuoteThey just have different paths for their lives.I still care about and love people from my past,but our paths just werent going the same direction so we parted ways I value the openness in this thread- you all rawkI value openness. In our relationship "good communication" was #1 as for all these years he worked in logging camp for shift work...mostly 20 days gone- 10 days home. Our communication skills have kept us together, our intimacy is built on "talking things over." "Tell us thy troubles and speak freely. A flow of words doth ever ease the heart of sorrows; it is like opening the waste where the mill damn is overfull" (Robin Hood) My partner held inside for 2 years before disclosing the path he has chosen (be baptised JW) He has been reading the bible since 911 and in logging camp has been studying it with a JW "brother." I went totally blank when I heard this from him- I couldn't react- felt a icy distance I have never felt with him, and withdrew from the conversation. 1st. impulse is my hearts, 2nd to simmer and brew in thoughts which lead to feelings--- then the rational mind wakes up and is in control. All my instincts are screaming- separation is the right decision. Spiritual teachers, Buddha/Jesus- touch the heart by speaking in the language of emotion teaching in parables, fables and stories. Indeed religious symbols and rituals make little sense from the rational point of view; it is couched in the vernacular heart. How does one "perceive" decipher and unravel religion or cult? The beliefs of the rational mind are tentative; new evidence can disconfirm one belief and replace it with a new one- it reasons by objective evidence. The emotional mind, takes its beliefs to be absolutely true, and so discounts any evidence to the contrary. I feel like my partner has lost his ability to reason or be rational, no matter the soundness of my argument from the logical point of view- it carries absolutely nil in weight. JW orginization holds the "only truth"....he is harboring more guilt every day he doesn't persue it. My reaction is to love him and let him go--- his path of his choice. SMiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #67 December 2, 2003 QuoteMy reaction is to love him and let him go--- his path of his choice. This is probably the hardest thing you can do - but also probably the wisest...understand - I do not approve/disapprove of any religion, be it formal or not. I just know that when you love someone, you should give them the right to follow their heart, no matter where it leads and if they decide to take you with them or if they decide to leave, you have given all you can - your heart, your love and your understanding. Bless your heart, Karen, for allowing him the choice to be himself, regardless of the pain in your heart for having to choose this path. TripleF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #68 December 2, 2003 QuoteThe man or "head of the house" is responsible for all decisions. That means if my wife talks me into a bad situation it's still my fault. Now find fault with that. Welcome to the "real world". Blues, J.E. Glad to hear someone state that too. I thought that it was just me who lived that hell. QuoteNow find fault with that Ok, according to that program: My wife can give me her opinion, but the ultimate responsibility is mine. So, if the decision turns out well, she can tell everyone how she advised me. If it turns out poorly, she omits mentioning her advice, but reminds me that I made the final decision and how stupid it was. Maybe that's not how it is "supposed to work", but that is the way it works. My version of the "real world" is this. Both men and women are adults. Equal partners in a relationship. They make and accept responsibility for their own decisions. I don't believe that adults should enter into relationships with people who cannot accept responsibility for their own lives. Women can read, write, drive, and own property because they are adults in the US. I think that in the middle east, you can still get a good one for 3 goats, but you have to know where to shop. That would be another example of how being a JW messes up your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #69 December 2, 2003 QuoteHere's a good one....7th day adventists came to our house to recruit. They're another cult like small christian sect. They started explaining to my dad something about how only 144.000 people will get into heaven at the time of the rapture. So my dad said, "Why the hell are you trying to recruit me, then? You're just ruining your own chances." Then he politely shut the door. It's 140 thousand... and it's in the Bible. Lot's of 'believers' just tokenly think: "I die, I go to heaven or I go to hell." Nowhere does it state this in the good book. It is said that 140 thousand will have a place in the kindom of heaven. That all others will either rise up from the dead on the last day and live on earth for the rest of eternity (mind you, this is "perfect world" now) or be cast away for their sins. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #70 December 2, 2003 Damn, it's gonna be crowded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #71 December 2, 2003 QuoteDamn, it's gonna be crowded. That's what I always thought. Man, think of all the people that have lived and died since 'the begining'... even if ya threw half of 'em away would we even have enough square-footage on the planet for 'em all? lol I've never taken numbers from the bible at face value. The language it was originally writen in is all but lost. Even those who have dedicated their lives to studying biblical times will never have full understanding but what they do know now applies. I remember learning that saying the number 40, in the time of Christ, was like saying "Millions!" today. Meaning it's a real number, but is often used just to say "lots and lots". example: Jesus didn't literally spend 40 days and 40 nights in the dessert but just a very long time. Peeps were like "My Goodness! He's been out there for 40 days!" meaning "Holly sh*t he's been gone awhile!" hehe. I find stuff like that interesting. Also, I've never thought that people really lived in excess of 800 years (Genesis). That saying they did was merely reflecting that "people lived well" The JW do however, think the numbers are real. They say that the bible is a series of prophecies. If they can tell the future, then they can certainly get their numbers straight (even via many many many generations and translations) My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pegasus 0 #72 December 2, 2003 Well I have say I am in agreeance with most who replied to this...it is a tough situation, especially after 22 years of being together. I went to school with a girl who was JH, she too (asit was previously noted in this thread) could not participate in the pledge, they didnot recognize any major holidays or birthdays. I have had the opportunity to know a few JH's through out my 28 years of life and they all seem brainwashed. Man will not get you to Heaven, there is only one way there and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ. I have also heard from some JH's that there is only room in Heaven for a predetermined amount of people (JH's only), the number keeps growing and they keep recruiting, seems cooky, doesnt it? I used to be in search constantly for a church home, (I am non-denominational) only to be hurt and let down several times by all the "hypi-christians". Shortly after I started jumping and made my first sunset load, I discovered that Jesus, higher power what ever you want to call Him, doesnt exist soley between walls and under a roof, He is everywhere & in everything. For me its admiring the beauty if things as I float down from a sunset load. I know I kinda got of on a tangent, I hope some of what I have written helps...good luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #73 December 2, 2003 Quote It's 140 thousand... and it's in the Bible. Where? In the Old Testament? (I don't recall JC, the Apostles, or even Paul himself saying anything like that, but it's been a while since I've read the New Testament...) mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpervali 1 #74 December 2, 2003 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth." - Revelations 14:03 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #75 December 2, 2003 So I was right with the 144,000 number. Guess I'm getting your spot, goose Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
