PD Reserve worth the buy?

[bherrick 0]

I need a reserve and found a PDR 176 with 1 ride and a DOM of 1994 for $500. Is there a rule of thumb to follow on how many reserve packs there have been when buying a used reserve. Is this worth the buy? Thanks

[likestojump 3]

PD Reserves have a row of boxes on the bottom (in the case of a 1994 one it's 3 rows of 13 boxes).
after 40 repacks OR 25 rides they need to go back to the factory for testing and a re-certification. Provided this reserve still has enough boxes left the price seems acceptable.

Of course some riggers choose not to fill those boxes out :(

see attachment

[Glandu 0]

The owner of the reserve should have the canopy tested first by PD factory at his own expense before he could sell it, even if all the boxes have not been filled up. You want to be sure that the reserve is airworthy !! Get the official document that proves it.
For a sixteen-year old canopy, I will still negociate the price, especially nowadays...
Personnally, I would not pay more than 300 dollars.

[chuckakers 370]

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The owner of the reserve should have the canopy tested first by PD factory at his own expense before he could sell it, even if all the boxes have not been filled up.

Where the hell did you come up with that? This is aviation, and short of outright fraud there's something call "buyer beware" that nearly all used aviation items - including aircraft - traditionally fall under. If you want to buy something, YOU are responsible for your own due dilligance at YOUR expense, not the sellers.

If the buyer can talk the seller into providing a factory inspection, good for that buyer. However, let's not lead people to believe that it is common for the seller to be responsible for providing proof of anything about the equipment - including airworthiness - because it's not.

A "conditional" sale is a more reasonable way to do things. If the purchase amount is large - like when buying a complete rig - include a trusted person to provide escrow services. Many DZO's and riggers will do this for you.

As for the reserve in question, if the packjobs or rides aren't maxed out, just have it inspected by a rigger - which he/she has to do before packing it anyway.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[TomNoonan 1]

Hi Bryan,

I am in the factory all day tomorrow (Thursday), give me a call at (386) 738-2224 or email me at:

[email protected]

And I will be happy to answer any questions you have about canopy inspection and recertification. The Parachute Maintenance Department at the factory is an exceptional resource.

Namaste,
Tom Noonan

www.everest-skydive.com

[Glandu 0]

I would not like to sell an old reserve canopy before having it inspected by the Factory. Of course this is not a requirement, but as one says "treat people the way you would like to be treated".
What would it cost me? A little money. So what ? At least I 'll know that the reserve is airworthy and won't blow up on opening!!!

This is what the skydiving community should be. Unfortunately, there are way too many individualistic, selfish persons who are killing the spirit of this beautiful sport and have only business in mind.

[likestojump 3]

your generalizations are absurd

[billvon 2,434]

>I would not like to sell an old reserve canopy before having it inspected by the Factory.

That's fine. It's a little unusual, but you can do whatever you like with your canopy before selling it.

>At least I 'll know that the reserve is airworthy and won't blow up on opening!!!

So you'd jump a canopy that might blow up on opening but you wouldn't sell it? OK. Again, that's fine. But it's not the norm in skydiving, so if you expect it, you have to tell any potential seller/buyer that. He may then choose to sell to (or buy from) someone who doesn't have such a requirement.

[Glandu 0]

Really? When I staredt jumpimg, you were probably still wearing diapers.... or maybe you were not even born yet. So, you have no idea how things have changed since then...

[sundevil777 94]

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I would not like to sell an old reserve canopy before having it inspected by the Factory. Of course this is not a requirement, but as one says "treat people the way you would like to be treated".
What would it cost me? A little money. So what ? At least I 'll know that the reserve is airworthy and won't blow up on opening!!!

This is what the skydiving community should be. Unfortunately, there are way too many individualistic, selfish persons who are killing the spirit of this beautiful sport and have only business in mind.

Not reasonable.

How often do/would you get your own reserve inspected (ETA - inspected by the factory)? How old is so old that it should need an inspection?

It can still blow up, even after getting inspected.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[chuckakers 370]

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I would not like to sell an old reserve canopy before having it inspected by the Factory. Of course this is not a requirement, but as one says "treat people the way you would like to be treated".
What would it cost me? A little money. So what ? At least I 'll know that the reserve is airworthy and won't blow up on opening!!!

This is what the skydiving community should be. Unfortunately, there are way too many individualistic, selfish persons who are killing the spirit of this beautiful sport and have only business in mind.

OK, let me get this right. I am an individualistic, selfish person killing the sport because I pointed out - correctly - how the vast majority of used aviation equipment deals are done in this country?

Where the hell did you EVER jump that people commonly paid to have a reserve inspected by the manufacturer before selling it? Skydive Utopia?

On a more personal note, I have spent more time than most giving back to the sport and I take exception to your comments that make me sound otherwise. Might I suggest you perform some due dilligance in the future before spewing your brand of old school wisdom. Otherwise you risk gettin' out old-schooled.

Now somebody hand me my cane - we're on a call.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[likestojump 3]

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Really? When I staredt jumpimg, you were probably still wearing diapers.... or maybe you were not even born yet. So, you have no idea how things have changed since then...

When did you start jumping ?

and more importantly :
Why does it matter ?

[chuckakers 370]

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Really? When I staredt jumpimg, you were probably still wearing diapers.... or maybe you were not even born yet. So, you have no idea how things have changed since then...

Statements like that will insure nobody listens to you.

And the Euro-types think Americans are arrogant.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[RMURRAY 1]

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I would not like to sell an old reserve canopy before having it inspected by the Factory. Of course this is not a requirement, but as one says "treat people the way you would like to be treated".
What would it cost me? A little money. So what ? At least I 'll know that the reserve is airworthy and won't blow up on opening!!!

This is what the skydiving community should be. Unfortunately, there are way too many individualistic, selfish persons who are killing the spirit of this beautiful sport and have only business in mind.

Not reasonable.

How often do/would you get your own reserve inspected (ETA - inspected by the factory)? How old is so old that it should need an inspection?

It can still blow up, even after getting inspected.

not to disrespect any riggers, it really is quite easy and CHEAP to send a canopy to PD if you live in the US or Canada. I would say as a condition of buying an old PDr route it to Deland and get it inspected. That is what I would do.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I would not like to sell an old reserve canopy before having it inspected by the Factory. Of course this is not a requirement, but as one says "treat people the way you would like to be treated".
What would it cost me? A little money. So what ? At least I 'll know that the reserve is airworthy and won't blow up on opening!!!

This is what the skydiving community should be. Unfortunately, there are way too many individualistic, selfish persons who are killing the spirit of this beautiful sport and have only business in mind.

Not reasonable.

How often do/would you get your own reserve inspected (ETA - inspected by the factory)? How old is so old that it should need an inspection?

It can still blow up, even after getting inspected.

not to disrespect any riggers, it really is quite easy and CHEAP to send a canopy to PD if you live in the US or Canada. I would say as a condition of buying an old PDr route it to Deland and get it inspected. That is what I would do.

That's fine, but as a general rule, at least the way business is done in North America, the inspection usually should be paid-for by the buyer, and not the seller. For example, when buying a not-new house, a pre-closing home inspection is usually paid-for by the buyer. Likewise, when buying a used car, getting it inspected pre-sale by a mechanic is usually paid-for by the buyer. Now yes, occasionally parties do negotiate different inspection-payment arrangements; but at least in N. America, those would be the exception, and not the rule. I see no reason why the purchase of pre-owned parachute rig components (including a reserve) should not be subject to the same general rule.

[davelepka 4]

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as a condition of buying an old PDr route it to Deland and get it inspected

I have done similar several times in the past, and it works well in terms of inspection, and buyer/seller comfort with the transaction.

Mr Seller e-mails PD (and copies the buyer) indicating they will be sending a canopy in for inspection, and that Mr Buyer will be paying for it, and that it most likely will be shipped to Mr Buyer after the inspection.

Mr Buyer then contacts PD to arrange for payment, and then waits for the results of the inspection. Mr Seller recieves the results and forwards them to Mr Buyer, and provided they are positve, Mr Buyer then remits payment to Mr Seller. Upon recieving payment, Mr Seller instructs PD to ship the canopy to Mr Buyer.

It's not a perfect 'safe guarded' transaction, but it's close. Not many scammers would go to the trouble (or be able to) ship an airworthy canopy to PD for the sake of passing inspection, only to then collect payment and instruct PD to return the canopy to them. The buyer knows that the seller has, and is willing to ship, the product in question and in the condition advertised. The seller knows that PD will not ship the canopy anywhere he does not instruct them to, so his product in secure until payment has been recieved.

You should never purchase any skydiving equipment sight-unseen from an unknown seller. If you can't agree on a local rigger or DZ to handle the inspection/secure payment, the manufacturer is always a good option.

[dragon2 0]

So what happens if the canopy does not pass inspection, or needs work? Does the buyer still have to pay for the inspection if he doesn't buy the canopy?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Deyan 31]

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So what happens if the canopy does not pass inspection, or needs work? Does the buyer still have to pay for the inspection if he doesn't buy the canopy?

If he requested the inspection, and the canopy was inspected, he should pay.

Blue skies

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

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So what happens if the canopy does not pass inspection, or needs work? Does the buyer still have to pay for the inspection if he doesn't buy the canopy?

Who pays for what, under what circumstances, should be agreed to before the canopy is shipped.

"What" includes the inspection and the shipping. "Circumstances" includes passing the inspection or failing the inspection.

Personally, if I was the buyer, I would agree to pay for the inspection, pass or fail. I would expect the seller to pay shipping to the factory, and return shipping if it failed.

Again, I would work all this out with the seller before it was shipped out.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[virgin-burner 1]

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So what happens if the canopy does not pass inspection, or needs work? Does the buyer still have to pay for the inspection if he doesn't buy the canopy?

If he requested the inspection, and the canopy was inspected, he should pay.

Blue skies

i tend to disagree; if it failed inspection the seller was pretty likely scamming the buyer, and because of that, should have the opportunity to say "sorry!" and pay it himself..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[davelepka 4]

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So what happens if the canopy does not pass inspection, or needs work? Does the buyer still have to pay for the inspection if he doesn't buy the canopy?

I always agreed to pay for the inspection, and the seller paid for shipping to the factory, and return shipping if the deal fell through. If the canopy passes and I pass on the deal, the seller is on the hook for the shipping money, but they have a passing inspection from the factory to use in trying to market the canopy.

If the canopy fails the inspection, the seller is on the hook for the shipping money, but that's what you get for sending a sub-standard canopy in for an inspection.

[davelepka 4]

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if it failed inspection the seller was pretty likely scamming the buyer

I'm not sure how you figure. There are two scams in used gear sales, the one is to collect payment for an item you don't own. In that case, there is no way to send anything to any factory because the equipment does not exist.

The other scam is to market a product you know as sub-standard without disclosing the problems with the product. In that case, a scammer would never agree to a factory inspection before being paid for the item becuase it would surely fail and be a waste of time.

That's one safeguard the idea has covered, the seller needs to have the item they are advertising, in airworthy condition and be willing to ship it to the manufacturer for an inspection. If a seller is willing to agree to those terms, there's a good chance they're a legit seller.

Likewsie, the buyer needs to be serious enough to pay for an inspection on a piece of equipment they don't own. Keep in mind that you don't get the results of the inspection until the bill has been paid, so a buyer willing to shell out the cash for an inspection is going to be a serious buyer, and not just 'window shopping'.