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oldfart

Mars Landing

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Maybe this one should go out to physicists and riggers.The Mars landers have all used parachutes to slow their descent to the surface of the planet at first,then rockets or in the case of the later missions the inflatable cushions.
NASA and JPL tell us that Mars has 1% Earth's atmospheric pressure.I'm sure like Earth,the higher the altitude,the less the pressure.
Having said that I propose this.Is that enough pressure to inflate a parachute?
NASA has been saying that the Martian atmosphere is almost nil,thereby the chances of life ever being there were almost nil.Now there was a guy who has posted a site (I will post the url if anyone is interested) who fiddled with colors on the pictures from the Viking lander in 1976 after NASA "corrected"them.For those of you old enough to remember,the first pics from Mars showed a blue sky.Then JPL "corrected" them saying the sky was pink from the red Martian dust.Just one problem.In one picture,the American flag is seen on the side of the lander in the corner of the picture.Now we may not know what color the Martian sky is,but we sure know what Old Glory is supposed to look like.
This dude with the site adjusted his computer to the colors of the flag to get as close to a correct red,white and blue as he could and what do you know,the sky on Mars turned blue in the picture.A blue sky would indicate a much healthier and heavier atmosphere than NASA is saying.
I still go back to the question of whether or not 1% Earth atmospheric pressure would inflate a parachute or not.What do you guys think?
Oldfart

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Of course it wouldn't work. Everybody knows that all of those pictures of "Mars" are just doctored photos of the Sonoran Desert. NASA uses all of the leftover cash to throw wild coke orgies at Area 51 and build earthquake machines.

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I still go back to the question of whether or not 1% Earth atmospheric pressure would inflate a parachute or not.What do you guys think?



Absolutely.

Canopy inflation isn't just about absolute pressure, but the pressure difference between one side and the other (bottom and top). So, the speed makes a big difference.

Although the parachute was in very thin air when it was deployed, it was also travelling about Mach 2.

The upshot being that the forces exerted on the parachute where about the same as if it had done a hop-n-pop on earth.

This isn't exactly correct, but close enough for us in this discussion.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Now we may not know what color the Martian sky is,but we sure know what Old Glory is supposed to look like.
This dude with the site adjusted his computer to the colors of the flag to get as close to a correct red,white and blue as he could and what do you know,the sky on Mars turned blue in the picture.

The only thing you can use effectively to adjust colour in a picture without a proper test pattern is human skin. We "know" how that should appear. You can guess about the hue and chroma saturation of other objects ... but it would be only a guess.



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I rekon it would if it's coming in at mach 5 ;)


OK,fair enough.But I remember in some of the old designs a ring sail type of chute was on the drawing board.What I see from NASA animation is a typical round.Even at that speed and using pyrotechnics,would there be enough pressure to hold it stable enough until the rockets are fired?

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The only thing you can use effectively to adjust colour in a picture without a proper test pattern is human skin.



The way you take a color photo on Mars is to take three monochrome photos through known color filters.

When the photographs get transmitted back home, you simply combine them. Since you already know the exact color filters used, you can get pretty damn accurate colors.

That said, the human eye will still have a tendancy to misinterpret these colors under certain circumstances. That's an easy correction as well simply using a known "white" to calibrate the photos.

In the case of the Mars Exploration Rovers, there is a white calibration disc/sun dial located on the rear solar panel that tells us what "white" is.

For more information, go to http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040108a.html

BTW, human skin is a horrible color calibration item.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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This dude with the site adjusted his computer to the ] The only thing you can use effectively to adjust colour in a picture without a proper test pattern is human skin. We "know" how that should appear. You can guess about the hue and chroma saturation of other objects ... but it would be only a guess.


On my film shoots we used flesh tone and a color chip chart for the colorist, as well as a grey scale.What this guy noticed was that in NASA's corrected pics,the white part of the flag was pink and had way too much red.After adjusting it to the white,the whole picture went back to NASA's "uncorrected" original colors showing a blue sky.Now agreed there was no flesh tone to adjust to,but adjusting white without removing all of the chroma can be a pretty good guess if you have nothing else to go on.I've gone with that on some home video people have shot for me where their color balence was way off and the shot was something where there wasn't much of a refference.Unless a lot of red dust was picked up on the lander when it made contact.This might be a logical assumption since the Viking used rockets for the final descent.Thanks for the explanation on the pressure.

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Doesn't it seem logical that if you had a red sky it would cast a reddish tone on all white objects?

Try taking a photograph of an American flag at noon and another at sunset and see what happens.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Doesn't it seem logical that if you had a red sky it would cast a reddish tone on all white objects?

Try taking a photograph of an American flag at noon and another at sunset and see what happens.


Right and color balance does change throughout the day here on Earth, as much as 10,000 degrees Kelvin depending on the angle of the sun (below 3000 at sunrise and sunset to over 10,000 at noon also the amount of cloud filtration changes color temp).The debate with this guy was which original 1976 photo was true.The first one ,"uncorrected" blue sky or the "corrected" one red sky.

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>NASA and JPL tell us that Mars has 1% Earth's atmospheric
> pressure.I'm sure like Earth,the higher the altitude,the less the
> pressure.
>Having said that I propose this.Is that enough pressure to inflate a parachute?

Yes. I believe sounding rockets on earth have used drouges at lower atmospheric pressures than that and they have inflated.

>NASA has been saying that the Martian atmosphere is almost
>nil,thereby the chances of life ever being there were almost nil.

Where did they say that? Many reports I've seen speculate that Mars was once much warmer and wetter, to the extent that it had seas. Seas indicate free liquid water can exist, which means an atmospheric pressure of at least 1PSI or so.

>A blue sky would indicate a much healthier and heavier atmosphere than NASA is saying.

A blue sky is more indicative of how gases and dust in an atmosphere scatter incoming sunlight, not of how thick it is.

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[>nil,thereby the chances of life ever being there were almost nil.

Where did they say that? Many reports I've seen speculate that Mars was once much warmer and wetter, to the extent that it had seas. Seas indicate free liquid water can exist, which means an atmospheric pressure of at least 1PSI or so.
<< Nil almost by Earth standards.
>A blue sky would indicate a much healthier and heavier atmosphere than NASA is saying.

A blue sky is more indicative of how gases and dust in an atmosphere scatter incoming sunlight, not of how thick it is.
OK.I was looking for the url of this site but it seems to have been moved.I did a search and found several sites claiming similar.What I find interesting about the Martian sites as opposed to the "Moon Landing Hoax"people.Is that the Moon Hoaxers are pretty easy to debunk, especially if you're old enough to remember Project Apollo,like me.Yet these folks aren't making claims that are all that outlandish by comparison and they seem to a bit better read.Here's one of the urls.
http://www.goroadachi.com/etemenanki/mars-hiddencolors.htm
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