500th!!!!! Dead Americans, That Is. . .

[Amazon 7]

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Are you saying that this is unique to this administration?

Most of them have been in power since 1980...only the face/front man has changed all the other players have remained the same. How many of them have actually put their asses on the line for anything other than influence and nice little perks like jobs from their LARGE "contributers" when they were out of power for a few short years but it does help them get to be millionaires.

Colin Powell served his country long and well as did John McCain.. who the people in this administration SMEARED mercilessly during their campaign During time of WAR I would rather have people who KNOW what it means to send off other peoples kids to fight a WAR. And since they are the ones who have created the foreign policy of this country for the last 24 years ( yes even during the Clinton Administration)... most of the current problems are laid directly at their feet.

Prominent Republicans

Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve . "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve.
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.


Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh?
VP Cheney - several deferments, the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service")
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve; received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State

Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve.


Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve, too busy being a Republican.

Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four student deferments

Former VP Quayle...(spelling champion)I got into the Guard fairly. There were no rules broken, to my knowledge... I, like many, many other Americans, had particular problems about the way the war was being fought. But yes, I supported my president and I supported the goal of fighting communism in Vietnam.

Robert Strange McNamara served as a captain in the Army Air Force he won the Legion of Merit and was discharged in 1946 as a lieutenant colonel Though nominally a Republican, he had supported Democrats and soon was tapped by President Kennedy for the Pentagon post.
http://www.rense.com/general48/wrong.htm

Political
Senator Don Nickles, R-OK - Oklahoma - Biography does not list military service. However, CNN lists Army National Guard service 1970-1976.
Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve
Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve
Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve
Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, fifth-ranking Republican in Congress - did not serve.
Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve, had a "bad knee" (yet somehow feels he has a right to attack Max Cleland's patriotism)
Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve
Jack Kemp, did not serve (was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years - source)
Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at 150% capacity (at least he showed up for his duty, unlike GW)
Eliot Abrams, did not serve (however, played a key role in subverting democracy in South America)
Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve
Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve
Richard Perle, did not serve (is the current bloodshed in the Middle East a direct result of his treasonous meddling in Clinton Administrstion foreign policy?)
Rudy Giuliani, did not serve
Michael Bloomberg, did not serve
George Pataki, did not serve
Spencer Abraham, did not serve
John Engler, did not serve
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service as a "Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina during the Gulf War.
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve
Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA/49th, there were some problems with his service.
Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve
Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Gubernatorial candidate - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition
George Herbert Walker Bush, pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; was lone survivor out of airplane (link).
Tom Ridge, Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam
Representative Sam R. Johnson, combat missions in both Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi from April 1966 to February 1973
(don't ever run for president Sam, they'll spread rumors that you're crazy)
Senator Ted Stevens, R-AK, WW II pilot, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, two Air Medals, and the Yuan Hai medal awarded by the Republic of China.
Congresswoman Heather Wilson, R-NM, served in the Air Force 1978-1989
Former President Gerald Ford, served in the Navy, WWII
Former Senator Strom Thurmond - apparently believes, along with Trent Lott, that America should have been a segregated society. Still, he served
George Will, did not serve
Chris Matthews, Mediawhore, did not serve.
Bill O'Reilly, did not serve
Paul Gigot, did not serve.
Bill Bennett, Did not serve
Pat Buchanan, did not serve
Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst' [see "The Rush Limbaugh Story" by Paul D. Colford, St. Martin's Press, 1993, Chapter 2: Beating the Draft.])
Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve, too busy chasing herbs and botany degrees in Hawaii and Fiji
John Wayne, did not serve
Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran." In reality, was a "Liquor Officer."
Bill Kristol, did not serve
Kenneth Starr, did not serve
Antonin Scalia, did not serve
Clarence Thomas, did not serve
Ralph Reed, did not serve
Michael Medved, did not serve
Charlie Daniels, did not serve
Ted Nugent, did not serve
Ollie North - Convicted in the Iran-Contra scandal, at least he served.
Charlton Heston - served in WWII, but went AWOL when Michael Moore asked him some tough questions.

Having the country run primarily by CHICKENHAWKS in a time of WAR is not very smart.

[benny 0]

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Not OK. Problem is most of the world thought he had WMDs too. Rest of the world now wants to point fingers for political reasons.

Rest of the world was also willing to take the
"huge" risk of waiting for further inspections. REst of world had signed on to process/organization called the UN. We can whine that Iraq violated UN resolutions, but we didn't exactly do anything to help the UN's legitimacy.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Ian84 0]

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Not OK. Problem is most of the world thought he had WMDs too. Rest of the world now wants to point fingers for political reasons.

I have no interest in politics. My opinion is not based on the belief that a domocrat/republican would do a better/worse job. I just think that what Bush has done is somewhat foolhardy and irresponsible. If I saw someone else do the same thing I'd be just as critical.You're probably right though, a lot of the finger pointing is purely politically motivated.

A lot of people thought the weapons were there, but not everybody decided to rush into a war. There were other options. It doesn't make sense to me that the weapons inspectors were basically ignored...as were the opinions of some other nations like France, who were subsequently boycotted by many americans. Remember freedom fries and all that bullshit???

[meatmissile 0]

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I thought it was an incredibly sad and interesting milestone.

Where I live, way more than 500 people die every day from AIDS and other unnatural causes. Out of a population of 45 million. We are fighting a war against an unseen enemy, one we can't bomb or vent our anger on in any way.
Now that is sad and "interesting".
Well, you guys are never going to agree on whether this war was necessary or not. Why keep arguing for argument's sake?

--
ZZZzzzz....

[benny 0]

Geez, you had to go and leave Dole out didn't you! What a list. Dole and McCain, are these really the only war heroes those guys have?

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Not OK. Problem is most of the world thought he had WMDs too. Rest of the world now wants to point fingers for political reasons.

Rest of the world was also willing to take the
"huge" risk of waiting for further inspections. REst of world had signed on to process/organization called the UN. We can whine that Iraq violated UN resolutions, but we didn't exactly do anything to help the UN's legitimacy.

Apparently your memory is a bit fuzzy. U.N. passed 17 resolutions which SH ignored. He was also given many "last chances" by GWB.
We signed on with the U.N. for Gulf War 1 and now GHB is blamed by you liberals for not taking out SH when you all know full well GHB was simply following the U.N. Res. 660-667 which only called for Iraqi Forces to be removed from Kuwait.

Now you guy whine about GWB not wanting the U.N. involved in Gulf War 2.

Like your sig line says Benny. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".

[Amazon 7]

No they have some more.. just as do the DEMS.... whenever I hear that crap that Dems and Liberals or ANYONE who opposes the Administrations points of view and therefore are UNPATIROTIC it gets me a bit riled up...

Remember people it was President Eisenhower who warned us of the consequences of the Military/Industrial Complex. America has forgotten that warning.

oh the Link to the site...http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

and like most things it is BIASED.. but very enlightening to all of the suppossed HEROS running our country and talking about all the American values in the right wing media.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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No they have some more.. just as do the DEMS.... whenever I hear that crap that Dems and Liberals or ANYONE who opposes the Administrations points of view and therefore are UNPATIROTIC it gets me a bit riled up...

Remember people it was President Eisenhower who warned us of the consequences of the Military/Industrial Complex. America has forgotten that warning.

oh the Link to the site...http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

and like most things it is BIASED.. but very enlightening to all of the heros running our country.

You mean the duly elected, by the people, members of Congress? You make it sound as if they took control by force. Did I miss something?

[meatmissile 0]

That other monkey number one guy said one interesting thing one day. How did it go again ?

--
ZZZzzzz....

[Amazon 7]

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Did I miss something?

Obviously... quite obviously.

[meatmissile 0]

Sigh....

--
ZZZzzzz....

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Did I miss something?

Obviously... quite obviously.

Oh really? Please explain? Perhaps you'd like to have a different form of government?

[osuskydiver 0]

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you know...this whole post pisses me off....im in the army....and as far as the certain part(in bold) do you not recall a certain two buildings that were taken down and the 3000+ killed!!??? Not to mention our
Pentigon. or were you still in bed that day? ask ANY soldier what they are fighting for....i bet not one of then says that they dont know.

EXACTLY!! I am also in the Army and I knwo exactly what I would be and all my friends that ARE over there now are fighting for.

Posts liek this piss me off. It is sad that soldiers are being killed in action but we knew it is a possibility when we all took the oath to join the military. Why don't you find something better to complain about and just show some support for your country and our soldiers.

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[benny 0]

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you know...this whole post pisses me off....im in the army....and as far as the certain part(in bold) do you not recall a certain two buildings that were taken down and the 3000+ killed!!??? Not to mention our
Pentigon. or were you still in bed that day? ask ANY soldier what they are fighting for....i bet not one of then says that they dont know.

EXACTLY!! I am also in the Army and I knwo exactly what I would be and all my friends that ARE over there now are fighting for.

Posts liek this piss me off. It is sad that soldiers are being killed in action but we knew it is a possibility when we all took the oath to join the military. Why don't you find something better to complain about and just show some support for your country and our soldiers.

It's this kind of logic that really kills me. I mean, by this line of thinking, anyone who questions the president is unpatriotic or treasonous. This is ludicrous, you're asking us to agree for agreement's sake, a very un-American thing to do.

Do I think our soldiers were sent to Iraq under false pretenses? Definitely. To I think this is an unjust war? Yes. Do I support the troops? I pay my taxes. I also speak my voice with my vote. I'm trying to vote for people who would have never sent your friends over there or would bring them home sooner. How is that not support to want our boys to be safe and home with their loved ones?

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Amazon 7]

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Perhaps you'd like to have a different form of government?

Yes I would.. its called a democracy... you know... that pesky form of government we are trying to bring to all thos liberated Iraqui's

[Gravitymaster 0]

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you know...this whole post pisses me off....im in the army....and as far as the certain part(in bold) do you not recall a certain two buildings that were taken down and the 3000+ killed!!??? Not to mention our
Pentigon. or were you still in bed that day? ask ANY soldier what they are fighting for....i bet not one of then says that they dont know.

EXACTLY!! I am also in the Army and I knwo exactly what I would be and all my friends that ARE over there now are fighting for.

Posts liek this piss me off. It is sad that soldiers are being killed in action but we knew it is a possibility when we all took the oath to join the military. Why don't you find something better to complain about and just show some support for your country and our soldiers.

It's this kind of logic that really kills me. I mean, by this line of thinking, anyone who questions the president is unpatriotic or treasonous. This is ludicrous, you're asking us to agree for agreement's sake, a very un-American thing to do.

Do I think our soldiers were sent to Iraq under false pretenses? Definitely. To I think this is an unjust war? Yes. Do I support the troops? I pay my taxes. I also speak my voice with my vote. I'm trying to vote for people who would have never sent your friends over there or would bring them home sooner. How is that not support to want our boys to be safe and home with their loved ones?

Because, unlike you, most of our troops in Iraq understand why they are there and don't want to "come home and be safe" until they finish the job of making you safe so you can sit on DZ.Com and complain and then go jump out of airplanes.

[sdgregory 0]

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Wasn't intended for you. Once again, I have a bad habit of responding to the last poster, not the poster I was referring to.

Straighten it up, Squid....

FFF

Freefallfreak, tuna and labrys! Stop making me shoot beer out my NOSE!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Perhaps you'd like to have a different form of government?

Yes I would.. its called a democracy... you know... that pesky form of government we are trying to bring to all thos liberated Iraqui's

Just what I thought. No answer so you change the subject.

[benny 0]

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Because, unlike you, most of our troops in Iraq understand why they are there and don't want to "come home and be safe" until they finish the job of making you safe so you can sit on DZ.Com and complain and then go jump out of airplanes.

Know why they're there, know why they're there. Uhuh. Listen, I really don't mean to insult troops in any way. But, umm, why is that again exactly?

Hmm, some seem to think 9/11 is the reason we're in Iraq. This "war on terror" thing, about as vague as the "war on drugs" and any other non-nation-state non-entity we've declared war on in the past 50 years. A War on terror is not a real war and will never really take place or really end. Even if it is the war on terror, Iraq hasn't been linked to fucking terror. For that matter the terrorists didn't like Saddam either. It's much more likely that Islamic extremists will come to rule in Iraq now that he's gone. But we figured he might give them WMD right... He cannot give what he doesn't have. So those reasons are gone, if those boys really think they are fighting terror in Iraq then they should seriously consider begging their commanders to give it up there and head straight for our lovely friends the Saudis. (15 of 19 hijackers = Saudi, 0/19 = Iraqi). God, I really must stop. Every reason the admistration gave for war with Iraq has been undone, why else would they be on to their bastard step-child of "liberating Iraq"?

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[osuskydiver 0]

You do no think the iraqi people should have been liberated from sadaam's rule?

By the time you read this you have already read it.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Because, unlike you, most of our troops in Iraq understand why they are there and don't want to "come home and be safe" until they finish the job of making you safe so you can sit on DZ.Com and complain and then go jump out of airplanes.

Know why they're there, know why they're there. Uhuh. Listen, I really don't mean to insult troops in any way. But, umm, why is that again exactly?

Hmm, some seem to think 9/11 is the reason we're in Iraq. This "war on terror" thing, about as vague as the "war on drugs" and any other non-nation-state non-entity we've declared war on in the past 50 years. A War on terror is not a real war and will never really take place or really end. Even if it is the war on terror, Iraq hasn't been linked to fucking terror. For that matter the terrorists didn't like Saddam either. It's much more likely that Islamic extremists will come to rule in Iraq now that he's gone. But we figured he might give them WMD right... He cannot give what he doesn't have. So those reasons are gone, if those boys really think they are fighting terror in Iraq then they should seriously consider begging their commanders to give it up there and head straight for our lovely friends the Saudis. (15 of 19 hijackers = Saudi, 0/19 = Iraqi). God, I really must stop. Every reason the admistration gave for war with Iraq has been undone, why else would they be on to their bastard step-child of "liberating Iraq"?

Some people get it and some people don't, I guess. Seems the ones who are in Iraq facing danger evry day DO get it.

[Amazon 7]

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You do no think the iraqi people should have been liberated from sadaam's rule?

I think if we had not sold the Iraqui's down the river in 1991 by not supporting the uprisings we had fostered and allowed Saddaam to kill many many thousands of Shiites he would have been long gone...GWB's father and cronies FUCKED up bad and those people over there will not forget that betrayal.

[Jimbo 0]

The question, Amazon, was "You do not think the Iraqi people should have been liberated from Sadaam's rule?". The question was not - "What do you think about what we did over there in the years past?"

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[benny 0]

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You do no think the iraqi people should have been liberated from sadaam's rule?

From an ideological perspective, yes. Although I also believe that most people will only coalesce into a democracy if left to do so mainly of their own accord, not told to do so by an invading foreign power. We could have and should have helped, but invaded, no. But I don't think this was what you were referring to when you said you knew why we were there. Maybe it is, if so, it is a noble cause, but not the cause the President and his administration sold to the American public in the days leading to war.

Even still, the commentary of the very same people about our actions in Kosovo when we stopped ongoing genocide brings into question their sudden "desire" to end tyrrany. If we really were after an end to tyrrany, maybe we'd stop the financial and military assistance we give to South American dictators. But hey, in reality with US policy, a dictator's ok, as long as he's our dictator of choice.

And don't take my word for it, click here for information on some of the wonderful governments to whom we sell arms.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Amazon 7]

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The question, Amazon, was "You do not think the Iraqi people should have been liberated from Sadaam's rule?". The question was not - "What do you think about what we did over there in the years past?"

Asked and answered.. yes he needed to go long ago... Reagan and Rummy built him up... allowed him to commit war crimes.. and GHB should have helped the insurgents in 1991.. and all of this would have been a moot point... WITHOUT having to occupy the country for the next 10 years and losing hundreds of Americans in the process. There are and were many people more than willing and able to oppose Saddam who had all the reasons they needed to rid themselves of the tyrant. They just needed a little help from thier friends.. not an invading army. Which do you think would have been the SMART PLAY.