Faber 0
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I spent years of my life serving and facing death to help trhe oppressed be liberators. THAT my friend shows emapthy
Not in the slightest. Todays "oppressed" are tomorrows "liberators", and you have no compunction with being told who's on our side today and who isn't. Ref: Afganistan.
Don't tell me you joined the military so that you could do great humanitarian work.
Faber 0
QuoteI am not. It's apparent that he is having a little trouble with english and I'm doing my best to interpret his meanings.
Thanks
well guys im off to my safe bed
my bottom line is that i dont like people get hurt,and that if USA didnt went to thouse many wars they wouldnt have so much trouble..
peace out
Stay safe
Stefan Faber
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHe hasn't seen anymore than I have.. Personally, I GUARANTEE he hasn't seen more innocent people killed by war or terror than I have.
Oh you're definately the bigger man. You're the greatest.
Thank you! About time you realized that!
It was sarcasm based on the fact that your desire to turn the discussion into a "who's seen more people killed" competition shows just how little empathy you have for your fellow human beings.
If Steve saw 10 and you saw 6 it would be irrelevant. If he has seen 1 and you haven't seen any it is.
never pull low......unless you are
Well, this is getting futile. For one: I can't understand Faber's English, so I have no idea how to respond. The other I believe is a troll, so I guess I will move on after having my last say.
Its bad that men/women have died in service, but when we sign up we know our commander may send us in harm's way. Often we fight for those who cannot defend themselves. For that I'm proud of my service and I do not need to defend my patriotism. I believe the US has the right to retaliate on those who support terror in ANY form. We also have the right to choose whom we respond to and how. If that is being an arrogant bully, so be it!
de oppresso liber!
Its bad that men/women have died in service, but when we sign up we know our commander may send us in harm's way. Often we fight for those who cannot defend themselves. For that I'm proud of my service and I do not need to defend my patriotism. I believe the US has the right to retaliate on those who support terror in ANY form. We also have the right to choose whom we respond to and how. If that is being an arrogant bully, so be it!
de oppresso liber!
QuoteSure its great that Libya is offering to do this, but invading one country to scare others into submission, when the one being invaded is 'innocent of the charge' is going to come back and bite you in the ass.
Quote
F--k em. If going into Iraq scares other law breaking countries to clean up there act then good! Let them be afraid of us for a while.
I don't care what reason we went into Iraq! That son of a camel needed to be taken care of. Don't tell me any different. I spent 9 months over there the first time and we gave the bastard the benefit of the doubt and he spit in our faces for the next 12 years. Killing his own people and generally being (in my mind) the f--king devil. I wish they had strung him up in public and did to him what he did to others for decades!
I served 9 years in the military and never once did a single soldier I know go off to have his ass shot at without having a reason. They may or may not agree with the reason but they have one.
What it comes down to is individuals asking themselves "Why am I here?" I asked myself the same question for months during Desert Storm and Desert Shield. The bottom line for me was the innocent people that had been hurt by the Iraqi's. I have posted this before. All it takes is to look into a little girls eyes that has had her father killed and mother raped and beaten. Then you know why you are there!
Forget Terrorists, oil and WMD. For me it was always about the innocents. The people that where killed everyday by that sick bastard! As long as our Govt. keeps going after countries that treat there people like he did, I don't care if they tell me we are going there because the price of bread is to high!
The bottom line is that SOB needed to be taken care off and he was.Dom
try rember back before 9-11 USA never did any thing to muslims?Al Quada attacked USA becours USA did the same to other muslims(Al Quada fights for all muslims not 1 country..)
Al Quaeda fights for some muslims. As in the ones that agree with their views.
never pull low......unless you are
benny 0
Steve, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I appreciate your service to your country. However don't you find it odd that during that time when you were training tribal Iranians to fight the Iraqis that your government was selling the Iraqis weapons with which to destroy those Iranians? It's this kind of two-faced, meddling in everybody's affairs that really pisses the most of the world off. Give money to Iraq, give money to Iran, give money to afghanistan, pull it away if they piss us off or if we just don't need their help anymore.
Never go to a DZ strip show.
Never go to a DZ strip show.
gary350 0
>I don't feel lied to. I don't like being called an idiot who can't think for himself either.
You may not feel lied to, but millions of others DO, including a huge number of military folks.
>Just ask about military moral during the past administrations years. As a general rule it SUCKED.
I think you are on the wrong side to be bringing up military morale. It sucks RIGHT NOW!
Besides doing nice things like cutting veterans' benefits (while giving massive tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires), the current administration's policies and lies (IMO) (leading to the belief for many that fighting and dieing in Iraq is not justified, as opposed to Afghanistan - where I'll bet morale is much higher because it IS justified) have contributed to such low morale that even the pentagon admits it has a big problem and is scrambling to find ways to keep folks in the armed forces. Not to mention the reports of suicides and AWOLs being way up.
A recent survey of service folks in Iraq (with a fairly large sample size) showed these results:
"Washington - A survey of US troops in Iraq . . . has found that nearly three-quarters of those questioned said unit morale was low or average, and that nearly half did not plan to re-enlist. "
OK - Itching to start the flaming about my "Liberal Hate Site" sources??? Huh? Huh?
Try "Stars and Stripes", links below. . .
Index Page for series on morale:
http://www.stripes.com/morale/
Specific article with the survey data:
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=17516&archive=true
Another good one: "Esprit de corps higher when mission is defined" (duh)
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=17462&archive=true
P.S. Thank you for your service! (and no, there is NOT even the slightest hint of sarcasm there - dead fucking serious from the bottom of my heart)
You may not feel lied to, but millions of others DO, including a huge number of military folks.
>Just ask about military moral during the past administrations years. As a general rule it SUCKED.
I think you are on the wrong side to be bringing up military morale. It sucks RIGHT NOW!
Besides doing nice things like cutting veterans' benefits (while giving massive tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires), the current administration's policies and lies (IMO) (leading to the belief for many that fighting and dieing in Iraq is not justified, as opposed to Afghanistan - where I'll bet morale is much higher because it IS justified) have contributed to such low morale that even the pentagon admits it has a big problem and is scrambling to find ways to keep folks in the armed forces. Not to mention the reports of suicides and AWOLs being way up.
A recent survey of service folks in Iraq (with a fairly large sample size) showed these results:
"Washington - A survey of US troops in Iraq . . . has found that nearly three-quarters of those questioned said unit morale was low or average, and that nearly half did not plan to re-enlist. "
OK - Itching to start the flaming about my "Liberal Hate Site" sources??? Huh? Huh?
Try "Stars and Stripes", links below. . .
Index Page for series on morale:
http://www.stripes.com/morale/
Specific article with the survey data:
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=17516&archive=true
Another good one: "Esprit de corps higher when mission is defined" (duh)
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=17462&archive=true
P.S. Thank you for your service! (and no, there is NOT even the slightest hint of sarcasm there - dead fucking serious from the bottom of my heart)
Thanks for your service to our country.
Some people get it and some people don't.
Some people get it and some people don't.
gary350 0
Quote
Also his first language isn't English and you're really giving him a hard time or it.
People - please do not give Faber a hard time for his spelling and grammer. He's trying.
And for your information, it has NOTHING to do with him being from Denmark or Iraq or wherever, and nothing to do with English not being his first language.
For the real explanation, just look at his signature - "BASE850" - nuff said.
Amazon 7
You know.. If the Administration would have just given us the truth none of this would be an issue.. of course there was nothing to do with WMD.. since none have been found and probably never will since the UN spent a number of years destroying things in the early years after the war.
If you do not think that is not about the OIL then you are worse than a FOOL. If Seirra Leone or any other country had the economic importance that Iraq has with the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world we would be there in force.
Yes the Iraqui's did horrible things to the Kuwaiti's, but if they did not have the oil we would never have gone there... oh and lets not forget the Saudi reserves that were threatened.
How about the Bush Administrations mixed signals to the Iraqui's in the first place????
How quickly people are willing to look at the propaganda... and not all of the REAL reasons going back over 30 years.
If you do not think that is not about the OIL then you are worse than a FOOL. If Seirra Leone or any other country had the economic importance that Iraq has with the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world we would be there in force.
Yes the Iraqui's did horrible things to the Kuwaiti's, but if they did not have the oil we would never have gone there... oh and lets not forget the Saudi reserves that were threatened.
How about the Bush Administrations mixed signals to the Iraqui's in the first place????
How quickly people are willing to look at the propaganda... and not all of the REAL reasons going back over 30 years.
I got a little bit of a problem with the methodology of this survey.
First they said 2000 responded, Out of how many?
This is important because the conclusions are very likely skewed due to the fact many may have recieved a survey and simply not sent it back for various reason including not caring to whine, not caring about the survey, forgot to return it etc. I don't see how you can draw any conclusions from such a survey.
First they said 2000 responded, Out of how many?
This is important because the conclusions are very likely skewed due to the fact many may have recieved a survey and simply not sent it back for various reason including not caring to whine, not caring about the survey, forgot to return it etc. I don't see how you can draw any conclusions from such a survey.
QuoteThere are a number of American soldiers who get activation orders without knowing where they're being shipped off to or whom they will be comfronting when they get there... basically, as a soldier, it does not matter if you know the WHY.
THat is not true. Soldiers now where they are going! They may not tell you, but they know where they are going!
the last line is a bunch of crap as well. Soldiers have the right to question any ordr given to them if it is against the law. We in fact have a responsiblity to challenge something if it is not right. Our soldiers know the why and aren't stupid enough to believe a lie, and are smart enough to know if and when they are being lied to.
Dom
goose491 0
Quote...so I guess I will move on after having my last say.
I hope that's a promise
QuoteI believe the US has the right to retaliate on those who support terror in ANY form. We also have the right to choose whom we respond to and how.
Well that's a perfect way to state your "Last say."
QuoteIf that is being an arrogant bully, so be it!
No, wait. THAT's the best way for you to state your "Last Say." With the sincerity required to say it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong... merely that you beleive you have the right, and if it's wrong, so be it. You sound like your commander and chief himself with his talks of "Axis of evil"... it makes me laugh and puke at the same time.
P.S. You know damn-well you understood what Faber meant... But I like the way you handled him. I think you should be able to jerk around anyone you see fit... and however you see fit... because you fought, and did it with the best of intent.
That was my "last say."
Nick
My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!
QuoteSome people get it and some people don't.
Is that how you're rationalizing it? "Some people just don't get it"?
Regardless of what you might think about your opponents views on this forum - do we seem inarticulate or unintelligent to you? How do you rationalize our objections other than we just don't "get it"?
I'm interested to know if you understand the points that we're making - even if you don't agree with them.
Quote"Washington - A survey of US troops in Iraq . . . has found that nearly three-quarters of those questioned said unit morale was low or average, and that nearly half did not plan to re-enlist. "
War or no that seems about the norm anyway. Regardless of a war or not. Half the guys in the military love it and the other half hate it. Moral is of course going to be down anytime a soldier is away from home and in a war zone. I swore up and down that I would never reenlist in the Army. I extended once and reenlisted once. The second time I swore to my CSM I would never reenlist just two days before I actually did.
Most soldiers are 18-20 or so anyway. How many 18-20 year olds do you know that are happy all the time with where they are and with what they are doing? So if half of them are happy in the Army then I look at it as something is good.
Dom
Not looking for one, but thank you.
Dom
gary350 0
A couple more interesting nuggets from the Stars and Stripes survey:
"More than one-third said that their mission was "not clearly" or "not at all" defined. Reservists had the most complaints in this category, the newspaper found, while Air Force and Marine respondents had the least complaints."
"When asked how worthwhile the war in Iraq was for the United States, 67% agreed that it was "worthwhile," while 31% said it was of little or no value."
Regarding the survey itself, I didn't put it under the headline "Example of Perfect Scientific Survey Found! 100% Accuracy Achieved!" People know (or should know) about sampling error theory. . .
"More than one-third said that their mission was "not clearly" or "not at all" defined. Reservists had the most complaints in this category, the newspaper found, while Air Force and Marine respondents had the least complaints."
"When asked how worthwhile the war in Iraq was for the United States, 67% agreed that it was "worthwhile," while 31% said it was of little or no value."
Regarding the survey itself, I didn't put it under the headline "Example of Perfect Scientific Survey Found! 100% Accuracy Achieved!" People know (or should know) about sampling error theory. . .
QuoteIf you do not think that is not about the OIL then you are worse than a FOOL.
I never said it wasn't about oil. I was trying to explain what it is about for a soldier. Soldiers and the Govt. are different. WE serve the Govt. but we all have our own minds and make our own decisions. Human nature will have you look for the best in a situation. The best we can look for in this is that hopefully innocent children over there won't have to go through what thousands of others have had to indure for the entire lives in that part of the world.
AND FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT YOURS OR ANYBODIES FOOL! I DID TAKE OFFENCE TO THAT!
Dom
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In Reply To
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...so I guess I will move on after having my last say.
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I hope that's a promise
That was my "last say."
Nick
In Reply To
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...so I guess I will move on after having my last say.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope that's a promise
That was my "last say."
Nick
I hope thats a promise.
never pull low......unless you are
gary350 0
QuoteQuote"Washington - A survey of US troops in Iraq . . . has found that nearly three-quarters of those questioned said unit morale was low or average, and that nearly half did not plan to re-enlist. "
War or no that seems about the norm anyway. Regardless of a war or not. Half the guys in the military love it and the other half hate it. Moral is of course going to be down anytime a soldier is away from home and in a war zone. I swore up and down that I would never reenlist in the Army. I extended once and reenlisted once. The second time I swore to my CSM I would never reenlist just two days before I actually did.
Most soldiers are 18-20 or so anyway. How many 18-20 year olds do you know that are happy all the time with where they are and with what they are doing? So if half of them are happy in the Army then I look at it as something is good.
I am not qualified to argue that - it may be dead-on. BUT, I will argue that if you polled during WWII or even Afghanistan, you would not get nearly THESE kind of numbers:
"More than one-third said that their mission was "not clearly" or "not at all" defined."
"When asked how worthwhile the war in Iraq was for the United States, 67% agreed that it was "worthwhile," while 31% said it was of little or no value."
I could be wrong. Just conjecture on my part (as is often the case. . . )
Is that how you're rationalizing it? "Some people just don't get it"?QuoteQuoteSome people get it and some people don't.
Regardless of what you might think about your opponents views on this forum - do we seem inarticulate or unintelligent to you? How do you rationalize our objections other than we just don't "get it"?Quote
Some people just don't get it.
Quote
Some people just don't get it.QuoteI'm interested to know if you understand the points that we're making - even if you don't agree with them.
Yes, I do. Some people just don't get it.
Please relax... I'm getting worried about you. Are you a type A personality? You know type A's are very susceptable to cardiac failures. Please calm down.
QuoteMore than one-third said that their mission was "not clearly" or "not at all" defined. Reservists had the most complaints in this category, the newspaper found, while Air Force and Marine respondents had the least complaints."
So nobody told them what grid point they would be staying at. That is a stupid question for them to ask. Every single soldier in the Army knows what there mission is. There missionis to do there job that they have trained for. Every unit knows it's mission. Of course reservists are going to complain more. They have just had to do something they actually thought they would never have to do. GO TO WAR. It is the same everytime something comes up and they use reserves.
Dom
Now were in EUROPE did this happen???
how ever i dont want your 4 years of war
Stay safe
Stefan Faber
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