Christian Skydiving Association

[Skyrad 0]

I also say a prayer on every load as well, two actualy, the Lords prayer as we go down the runway and a quiet prayer of thanks just before I go out the door. I often wondered if anyone else did as well.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[LuvToFly 0]

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Man, I *am* nitpicking today.

Wow, you are!! But it's cool.

Still disagree about Love and trust - but that's cool too. We will agree, to disagree, okay?

Peace -

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[LuvToFly 0]

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I also say a prayer on every load as well, two actualy, the Lords prayer as we go down the runway and a quiet prayer of thanks just before I go out the door. I often wondered if anyone else did as well.

It hits me a lot of time after I land. Not really about getting down safely, which is really great too! But just feel real grateful to who I consider to be God that I have the health and means to experience something that few other people will -

That is usually followed by some kind of loud, "WooHoo" because skydiving is so much fun...

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[Skyrad 0]

Yea, I don't pray for a safe landing because as atheists might say when its your time its your time, I belive that what will be will be Gods will. So I pray a prayer of thanks for the privalged life I live and for the imense privalidge of being a Skydiver. Its also a reconition that God has granted me so much grace in my life and I thank him for it.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[GARYC24 3]

I'm joined them..got the patch..by the way..that patch was design by the same people that designed the NASA logo..
I was on the 6-way cross load at Perris Valley..1st Annual Christian Skydivers International fellowship With Slyvester St. Cyr...might want to look this guy up..He passed away a few years after that jump.
He had a very amazing, inpressive, adventourous life, job and stories..he wrote a book; I forget title..
Want to know more, pm, email me..I'll try to get ya info..
But I was gone for the weekend and just logged on to see your post and wanted to reply.
Gary Calhoun

[Exegesis-Logos 0]

I have noticed a lot of people here, and elsewhere in my life, that take an approach to God that I simply have a hard time understanding….

Please make note that I say these things not out of condemnation to any of you, for you are all my brothers and sisters of the sky… Love to all no matter what.

But there seems to be a lot of the “I like to think of God as…” type views.

This only leads me to one of 2 conclusions.

1. That ‘God’ or one’s view on ‘God’, is strictly a psychologically developed opinion to suit one’s own needs. If one ‘likes to’ think of God as one thing, than that is what God is. In short, There is no ‘God’, but only a reflection of ourselves that we like to portray as ‘God’. In this view, God is still ‘narrowly defined’, only, God is defined by the person who he is created by. There is no such real being as God…. People are free to assign whatever attributes they would like in a God… and that is what becomes reality.

2. God is a real Being. There are specific attributes to Him. When he is ‘narrowly defined’, it is because he has defined attributes. God likes and dislikes certain things. He is one, specific, personal, and relational being whom we can not simply assign attributes to, but must accept or reject Him for who and what he is.

I will not be sly or dishonest with any of you, I fall into the 2nd category, so I am biased in some ways on this. But My question is does belief in something really make it reality. For instance, take anything that is real, and it has definite, narrowly defined attributes. The sky that we all cruise. The saying goes around ‘Blue skies’. What if I think that is to narrowly defining the sky. What if I like to think of the sky as green, that there is no wind as I fall, and that I don’t need to worry about anything happening to my chute, because if I hit the ground, it will be a soft-pillow like experience – I will simply get up and walk away.

Just because I believe this, does it make it real? Even though I believe with all my heart that it will be a soft pillow-like landing… what is going to happen if I hit the ground when my chute does not open?

Please bare with my question… I simply seek to understand what is true.

Much Love to all and... Yeah.. Blue skies.

[Skyrad 0]

Dude, didn't you write the script for 'Willing to fly?'

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Zenister 0]

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Truth sets Free.

So love to all of you... Christian or not, religious or not.... I have love for all of you.

tis a fine sentiment and it would be lovely if more christians could accept it, and accept the Truth that God speaks to tigers in a another voice, using far fewer words than the 'word' you claim he has given you for his sheep.

that does not make our path any less divine, devote, or True

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[goose491 0]

Hi,

I was actually very interested in this organization. I went to sign up and decided against it based on one sentence alone. I cannot sign my name to a statement beginning with:
"I admit that I am a sinner in a lost and dying world.".

Where I believe we have problems... and that many a soul is adrift, I cannot accept that our entire world is "Lost and dying."

Nick

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Skyrad 0]

Yea, I had the exact same issue.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[goose491 0]

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Just because I believe this, does it make it real? Even though I believe with all my heart that it will be a soft pillow-like landing… what is going to happen if I hit the ground when my chute does not open?

"Do you think that is air you are breathing?"
-morpheus

lol, sorry couldn't resist.

You've made a very nice post. I would present that I fall into the first category because I do not beleive in the Sunday School God. However, I beleive in something, but would never have the odacity to fabricate mine own description of him/her/it, let alone provide this description to others. I'm sorta waiting to find out something which is responsible for what is... and that without his/her/it's power, there would not be what is.

To those that proclaim themselves atheist, I often ask: "If there is absolutely no other being, then why is it that there is something istead of nothing?" (an evolved form of "why are we here?") I've seen many opinions change based solely on an inability to answer this question. Many decide that yes, there must be a higher power, but that it does not affect the way they live their lives... this is agnostic.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[chuteless 1]

if you dont believe in God....who are you praying to?????

[diverdriver 5]

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Chris,

Did see the photo, and would really love to have been involved in the cross jump - I have not heard of or seen this before -

Are you aware of any other jumps - or a place to see any videos, or other stills like this? Also, how did this particular jump come to be (how organized, who planned it, etc.) and where was it done?

While we are talking about the CSA, have you had any involvement a Christian Pilots Association?

No, no involvement in the Christian Pilot's Assoc. either.

The jump was done for a Christian rock concert that was held at the DZ. The DZ provided the venue for people from all over the area to come and spend an afternoon. It wasn't just a concert. There were other entertainers from what I understand like comedians and such. Well, it went around that they wanted to organize a cross jump for the attendees. I didn't think they would be able to see it as we had a perfect blue sky above and that doesn't lend itlself to easily viewing people in freefall. Ahh hah! A test of faith! Yes, we can certainly read into many things with this. So we dirt dove it. I forget who exactly organized it whether it was Max or TJ or Uncle Jerry. I got to be one of the last divers and formed at the foot of the cross on the left side. Missy closed the head and Rook closed the foot. The whole day was somehting that Roger really was looking forward to. I'm glad we got to participate in that.

When we got to the ground we were told that the dive was easily seen right over the top of the concert. That really warmed my heart. Not sure if the video was ever shown for them but they did get to see this cross form over head and then vanish. I wish someone had gotten video of that from the ground but it's ok. I got to see the smiling faces in freefall. That was truly cool.

In attached picture...I'm lower end of cross on left side. White jumpsuit, blue rig.

[Zenister 0]

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Hi,

I was actually very interested in this organization. I went to sign up and decided against it based on one sentence alone. I cannot sign my name to a statement beginning with:
"I admit that I am a sinner in a lost and dying world.".

Where I believe we have problems... and that many a soul is adrift, I cannot accept that our entire world is "Lost and dying."

its not, your not unless you chose to believe so...

sin is the guilt trip given you by christian dogma...
you are not a sinner unless you chose to be, chose to define yourself as such....

god doesnt care about anyones guilt or dogma...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[mailin 0]

I'm not sure how to look at this thread.

I have had MANY struggles with faith the last few years. I am 100% irish - boston irish to boot (which is very different LOL). Catholasism is so engrained in my family that its hard to see a time when at least one generation in my family 'served the lord' in some capacity in the church. I have gone to catholic school, received all the 'blessed sacraments' but reached a cross-road when I got married last year.

I've participated in many conferences about religion - mainly with people who would fall into the baptist religion. I am grateful for that, because it gave me a different view on religion.

In the end I got married in the catholic church and plan on raising my kids catholic, but I no longer see it as a requirement. The catholic religion puts MANY MANY, what I would consider, worthless rules on your relationship with God. Why do I have to confess to a priest in order to receive the body of Christ in Mass? Why can't I confess to God - he's the only one that matters anyway. Although I haven't read the bible from cover to cover, I don't believe that 'rule' is listed there.

It is possible to have a relationship with God and not go through an organized religion. A persons relationship with God is very personal one, and it doesn't not REQUIRE that that person be involved with any particular religious group.

I find many religions miss that point - everyones relationship with God is one in their own way. I, personally, do not feel that I need to belong to a 'group' in order to serve God or have faith in him.

So however you choose to celebrate God in your life, is your business, and you should not allow others to try to dictate how that relationship should be conducted.

Jennifer

Arianna Frances

[Exegesis-Logos 0]

Jennifer,

I agree with alot of what you are saying, and take it from me (not that you have any reason to trust my opinion on anything) but that 'rule' is NOT in there. You can come to God, but as you know from your schooling, and this they were not wrong in... There is one way. Through Jesus Christ.

My original question was really not concerning how one goes about persuing a relationship with God, as I agree with you on that... how one chooses to worship is a personal preference... My question was more concerning the very nature and reality of God, as a being, and not in whom we make him out to be.

I want to wish you the best of luck with the kids... Children are such a blessing...

Chris.

[goose491 0]

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sin is the guilt trip given you by christian dogma...
you are not a sinner unless you chose to be, chose to define yourself as such....

Thanks Zenni. And I agreee that too many religions use guilt to keep the sheeple in line. But I have no issues with the 'sinner' part. I do admit that I am a sinner. Furthermore, I consider it naive of any human to say that they are not. "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

It was the "lost and dying world" that I protested. I can not cosider my world "lost and dying" or there is no point to living in it and there's no point in the battle.

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god doesnt care about anyones guilt or dogma

Check this food for thought. Can one call him or her self both agnostic *and* Christian?

I call myself christian not because "Jesus is the son of my God, sent to die for my sins." but because he brought in the new covanent. i.e. God is not a vengeful one, love thy neighboor simply because it's the right thing to do. This 'New God' I grew up learning about cares just as much about why I do good as he/she cares wether I do good. So... I don't go to church, but love my neighboor and spread the word.

Todays Agnostics are the Anarchists of the religious in that they chose how to live based on their own reflection of right and wrong. I refer you to my sig line. "My Karma ran over my dogma." not just a witty joke, I hold true to this statement as doing good and loving my neighboor has brought joy to my life. It obliterated my dogma in that I now practice no ritual, or ceremony. I offer no common prayer. In short, no religion. My decision not to conform to any one club was a mature one based on what I drew from the teachings of Christ.

"How do you like them apples"?
-Eve

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[jumpinfarmer 0]

I think I can count on my hands the times I've been to church in my life. However I consider myself a religiuos person. How can this be? Being a farmer and always having lived in the country I feel surounded by Gods creation every day. The land, trees, weather, and the ability he has given me to do his work. I do to others as I wish them to do to me. I often find myself lending a hand to others even when I already have a full plate of work to do. I do this because I feel it's the right thing to do.
Last spring I made the choice to make a skydive. At the time I prayed that I hadn't made a selfish decision by risking my life and potentialy leaving my family in a bad situation. Wile I didn't feel as though God gave me his permition I did over come the fear I had. When I was in the plane( the first time for me) I realised I had been given a gift. For as many times as I look at the land, I don't think I ever really saw it till that day in the air. When I was up there hanging from the risers all by myself I realy could feal his presents. I was totaly struck by the grandure of all Gods creation.
I still don't go to church however I believe even more than ever. As selfish as it may sound I'm with the others when I say jumping on Sunday morning is my church. Just like farm work on some Sundays is also my church.

[sdgregory 0]

HOLLYWOOOOOOOOOOD! Waz up girl?!

FYI: I rarely miss Church on Sunday. Go to the 9:00 Service and love every minute of it. Then I sit in the coffee shop afterwards and fellowship with my church friends. So there, now you know you know at least one skydiver that goes to church on Sunday.

[sdgregory 0]

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At the risk of sounding like a fanatic, I have to admit that when I did my first tandem, I truly felt the presence of God...which was not the first time in my life

I am by no stretch of the imagination the ideal Christian, but I know this much, that I am a sinner and that Jesus saved me from the consequences of my sins.

And I must say that every time I jump, I feel like it is one of the gifts that God has blessed me with. A fufillment of a dream that is really a selfish one because it serves no purpose other than to fill me with joy. But I thank God for this gift of flight. And the first time I jumped solo, when I looked around at the view I was blown away at how big the world looked from there and it drove a great thought home. That as big as this earth is, God loves me as small as I am. Face it if I hit the earth, I do not think the earth would notice but I certainly would.

Yeah, I think skydiving is a spiritual experience that can bring us closer to God (and I do not mean by being higher in the sky).

[sweetjava77 0]

I am not currently a member of CSA but plan on joining soon. Its nice to see some jumpers wearing their patch and knowing that they too are Christians. As far as church on Sundays, I usually have to work anyway buy I will alternate on Sundays between church and the drop zone. What I need to do is find a good church CLOSE to the drop zone.

[sdgregory 0]

Or a Dropzone close to Church

[airdweller 0]

>I know that through the amazing love of God, He sent his Son to pay the sin debt for everyone<

so get your monies worth, there are very few things in life that are free

------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[brits17 0]

I rarely surf Talkback, but saw this thread and just had to say I'm so glad and comforted to see so many openly sharing their faith. My biggest struggle is "living the life" in an environment in which I tend to 'conform' to rather than stand out in. My prayer is that Christ will shine through me in actions and words, yet I never seem to do it well enough. However we are in a fallen world, and "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." I totally praise Him for His grace. I'm also extremely thankful we live in a free country and have the ability to voice our gratitude to the Lord and beliefs without imposing them on others but merely sharing our joy. I'm no holy roller, always open minded, and I'm cool with everyone despite their personal beliefs... but God rocks and Satan's a nerd. Ok, /rant. Peace out yo's.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[sunman 0]

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But there seems to be a lot of the “I like to think of God as…” type views.

This only leads me to one of 2 conclusions.

1. That ‘God’ or one’s view on ‘God’, is strictly a psychologically developed opinion to suit one’s own needs. If one ‘likes to’ think of God as one thing, than that is what God is. In short, There is no ‘God’, but only a reflection of ourselves that we like to portray as ‘God’. In this view, God is still ‘narrowly defined’, only, God is defined by the person who he is created by. There is no such real being as God…. People are free to assign whatever attributes they would like in a God… and that is what becomes reality.

2. God is a real Being. There are specific attributes to Him. When he is ‘narrowly defined’, it is because he has defined attributes. God likes and dislikes certain things. He is one, specific, personal, and relational being whom we can not simply assign attributes to, but must accept or reject Him for who and what he is.

I agree with you that people define God based on what they believe him to be. But isn't that what you do as well? Your image of God is based on the traditions of early mesopotamians known as the Israelites. This tradition of beliefs changed and evolved to suit people's needs, and eventually we have a branch of this tradition ending in evangelical christianity. I know because I used to be what people called a "religious fanatic". But when I looked into it, I mean REALLY looked into it, christianity is just another religion. When I failed to see even one occurance of anything truly supernatural in my life, I began to wonder if I was just brainwashed. I used to be quite the "christian apologist", one of those people who can give you 100 reasons why the bible must be true. But you know what? Can't be proved. Know what else? These concepts of heaven and hell, angels, demons, the Holy Spirit, a man-god named Jesus who dies for the sin of the world, and God creating the world in 7 days... do you know how ridiculous that sounds to people who don't believe? What's even more ridiculous is the fact that I had to believe that everybody who does not believe in Jesus is going to spend an eternity in hell. This is a huge ignored logical contradiction! I mean, supposedly, God is perfect, and I'm slime. Actually, I can be a real dick sometimes, but I would never send anybody to hell for eternity just because they chose the wrong religion! But according to the bible, God will. How does that make him perfect? Now I know why whenever I shared my faith people laughed at me. It seems like some crazy made-up story. Maybe that's because it is. The bible is not perfect. Even when I was a christian I knew that. But those apparent contradictions were always cleverly explained away. Well there's a better explanation. If this was a book inspired by God, then there would be no contradictions. The contradicitons are there because it was a book written by men and inspired by their own motives. How am I supposed to believe that the God that designed the universe expects me to believe that he authored or inspired a book that is full of mistakes? And how I am supposed to believe that if despite those mistakes, if I don't place my faith in the God that is described in that book, I go to hell forever? How am I supposed to believe that?

Whoa, I got a long winded there, sorry about that.