PhillyKev 0 #26 February 13, 2004 QuoteKERRY LIED IN TESTIMONY TO CONGRESS. Do you have a reference to that? Doesn't say anything about that in your link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #27 February 13, 2004 Ah - my bad. Please read Stolen Valor by Burkett. In it, investigation of the "scarred Vietnam vets" who "committed atrocities" in SEA (as detailed in the "Winter Soldier" testimony) were exposed by Burkett as outright phonies, many of whom had never been in the service at all, let alone having seen action. Edit to add: I'm not dismissing My Lai. It's just that a lot of people have this cartoony image of the war thanks to assholes like Oliver Stone. As is common in life and society, the truth is much more benign and far less lurid than the "Winter Soldier" testimony, and thus less interesting. That Kerry libeled his fellow GIs in front of Congress is something I intend to remind him of if he ever comes to Seattle. I intend to holler "Baby Killer!" at him. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #28 February 13, 2004 Did you read any of the book reviews under that link. The first 5 or so, I think...completely discredit Burkett. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #29 February 13, 2004 QuoteDid you read any of the book reviews under that link. The first 5 or so, I think...completely discredit Burkett. Read the rest. Burkett's exposure of the phony "Winter Soldier" testimony isn't questioned, nor is the ripoff of the VA that phony vets are still getting away with. Edit to add - Kerry made a major contribution to the public's perception that Vietnam vets (some of whom are my friends and family) were hair-trigger psychos. I've never forgotten that, and if given the opportunity, I intend to make sure Kerry doesn't either. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #30 February 13, 2004 You have to remember my words here. Most of the people who will challenge you will not really use knowledge based in research. They will use the 30 second sound bites disseminated by the Dem. party.(again not a partisan comment as I openly acknowledge the use of such tactics by the Rep. I think of this much the same as reading Romeo & Juliet in Cliff Notes as opposed to the real thing). There are those of us who actually studied what he said, when he said it, and the context that it was said in. This happened in my mil science classes. The military does like to learn from it's mistakes. Even back in the 70's. Whether these people want to believe what Col. North has to say based on their political beliefs becomes almost irrelevant. North is a astute military historian. Many in this forum will choose to only associate him in one context. Of course they will not bother to try and learn the whole story of that context either.Rainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #31 February 13, 2004 QuoteI think this is BS trying to tie Kerry to Jane Fonda. This incident has no relevance to her statements in N. Vietnam. Fonda's trip to N. Vietnam took place almost 2 years after this demonstration. Quote Didn't she just endorse Kerry? -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #32 February 13, 2004 I'm not talking about North's sound-bite. I'm talking about Giap's expression of appreciation for John Kerry BY NAME, and the bogus "Winter Soldier" testimony. You see, Giap knew it was all BS too, but it was very politically useful for his cause (the ouster of the US from his country). On a lighter note, Kerry's testimony probably had influence on the decision to abolish the draft... mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rainbo 0 #33 February 13, 2004 Understood, some have already tried to flame North's comments. Thus my reference to it. RainboRainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #34 February 13, 2004 I'm willing to believe it if it comes from a credible source. I searched and could find no other claims that he "lied to congress" other than those attributed to Burkett. As far as North is concerned. He was convicted of lying to Congress, and then given immunity for it. And saying that we'll only associate him in one context is much like judging Kerry based on things he said over 30 years ago. Things that no one has proven to be untrue. Hey, I'm no gigantic fan of Kerry, but I don't buy that he lied to congress based on one persons say so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #35 February 13, 2004 Ok...and I'm willing to believe that Giap said it. Did the anti-war protests have anything to do with us not prevailing in Vietnam? Of course they did. It was public pressure that got us out of there and public opinion that kept us from going into a full out assault. John Kerry was instrumental in that public opinion. Did John Kerry want the war to be extended and for servicemen to die? No...he wanted out troops out of there, but the administration was not willing to do that, so they compromised and everyone lost out in the end. And if you look at all of Giap's comments, he actually says that they were ready to surrender until he heard Cronkite saying that the VC had taken over the embassy, even though it wasn't true. Later in his comment he states that the group Kerry was a leader of helped to ensure their victory. But he didn't say that Kerry was the reason they didn't surrender when they were going to, as the esteemed Mr. North said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #36 February 13, 2004 QuoteI'm willing to believe it if it comes from a credible source. I searched and could find no other claims that he "lied to congress" other than those attributed to Burkett. The claim was mine, based on Burkett, and I stand by it. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #37 February 13, 2004 That's what I'm saying...I've found lots of the same claim all over the internet, all attributed to Burkett and no one else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #38 February 13, 2004 QuoteThat's what I'm saying...I've found lots of the same claim all over the internet, all attributed to Burkett and no one else. I think FindLaw or Lexis-Nexis would be more helpful in finding more details, like VA fraud cases. Lawrocket? mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #39 February 13, 2004 QuoteJohn Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony (from Congressional record), which was subsequently proven to be BULLSHIT. KERRY LIED IN TESTIMONY TO CONGRESS I gotta call BULLSHIT on that one Mark... READ the testimony.... I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of one thousand, which is a small representation of a much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table, they would be here and have the same kind of testimony. I would like to say, representing all those veterans, that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over one hundred fifty honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to. war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did, they relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do. They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country. He was recounting the stories of men who were there or CLAIMED to have been there. I remember that time... I served at that time. I remember the divisiveness and the infighting between the HAWKS and the DOVES.. I remember the America Love it or Leave it. I remember what it was like to be in the military at the time and the treatment that I as a servicemember was subjected to. All of the same words are being used by the ultra right once again. AT least all of our servicemen and women are getting the support of the country that we did not get in that not so long ago time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,647 #40 February 13, 2004 QuoteYou have to remember my words here. Most of the people who will challenge you will not really use knowledge based in research. They will use the 30 second sound bites disseminated by the Dem. party.(again not a partisan comment as I openly acknowledge the use of such tactics by the Rep. I think of this much the same as reading Romeo & Juliet in Cliff Notes as opposed to the real thing). There are those of us who actually studied what he said, when he said it, and the context that it was said in. This happened in my mil science classes. The military does like to learn from it's mistakes. Even back in the 70's. Whether these people want to believe what Col. North has to say based on their political beliefs becomes almost irrelevant. North is a astute military historian. Many in this forum will choose to only associate him in one context. Of course they will not bother to try and learn the whole story of that context either. North is a liar who only avoided jail time on a technicality.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,647 #41 February 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'm willing to believe it if it comes from a credible source. I searched and could find no other claims that he "lied to congress" other than those attributed to Burkett. The claim was mine, based on Burkett, and I stand by it. mh My claim that Bush lied to Congress is the transcript of his 2002 and 2003 State of the Union Addresses, to be found at www.whitehouse.gov. That is a VERY credible source. Not only that, I watched him on TV and saw his lips moving.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiverRick 0 #42 February 13, 2004 My claim that Bush lied to Congress is the transcript of his 2002 and 2003 State of the Union Addresses, to be found at www.whitehouse.gov. That is a VERY credible source. Not only that, I watched him on TV and saw his lips moving. I don't think that he lied. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #43 February 13, 2004 QuoteHe was recounting the stories of men who were there or CLAIMED to have been there. He served there, so he personally KNEW BETTER. He or his stooges could have done a simple background check like Burkett did much later, but it sounded like what they wanted to hear. Of all the lies told about Vietnam vets, his were the worst, because he KNEW they were lies, but passed them along anyway because it was politically expedient to do so, in other words, political opportunism at its worst. He's guilty for taking the words of those liars as gospel, and using them to testify before Congress, and encouraging citizens to attack GIs publicly, as if they were the makers of policy, rather than the instruments of policy they've always been. He's therefore SHIT, and if he comes to Seattle I promise to scream "BABY KILLER!" to his face if I get the opportunity. The we'll see how he likes it. Edit (2) to add - my apologies to anyone reading this who may be upset by my remarks. This is a very, very hot button with me, and Jeanne, you don't have to take my word for any of this - I'll introduce you to my good friend Kregg Jorgenson, author of "Acceptable Loss". mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,433 #44 February 13, 2004 >> put such comments in the same category of Margie Schoedinger's >> comments, the woman who accused George W Bush of raping her . . . >I believe the quote is factual - I recall seeing it about ten years ago. So is Schoedinger's. The lawsuit is real; you can look up the complaint by entering her name here. Doesn't mean it _is_ real, just that she said it was. Same with Giap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #45 February 13, 2004 Quote>> put such comments in the same category of Margie Schoedinger's >> comments, the woman who accused George W Bush of raping her . . . >I believe the quote is factual - I recall seeing it about ten years ago. So is Schoedinger's. The lawsuit is real; you can look up the complaint by entering her name here. Doesn't mean it _is_ real, just that she said it was. Same with Giap. Very true. I (unfortunately) don't have a copy of Giap's book, so without hard facts it's say-so. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,647 #46 February 13, 2004 Quote My claim that Bush lied to Congress is the transcript of his 2002 and 2003 State of the Union Addresses, to be found at www.whitehouse.gov. That is a VERY credible source. Not only that, I watched him on TV and saw his lips moving. I don't think that he lied. What about this statement do you not understand? "Our budget will run a deficit that will be small and short-term." G.W. Bush, State of the Union Address, January 2002 (www.whitehouse.gov) Which must be placed in context to see that it is a lie. Bush's budget for 2005, submitted to Congress last month, has the largest deficit in history, $521 Billion. (www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/index.html) Bush's own budget director, Joshua Bolton, is now unable to predict when the deficit will be eliminated, and projects it will take 5 years just to cut the deficit to $237Billion. So unless you interpret "small" to mean "largest in history" and "short-lived" to mean "lasting into the forseeable future and beyond", he lied to Congress and the people. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #32 February 13, 2004 I'm not talking about North's sound-bite. I'm talking about Giap's expression of appreciation for John Kerry BY NAME, and the bogus "Winter Soldier" testimony. You see, Giap knew it was all BS too, but it was very politically useful for his cause (the ouster of the US from his country). On a lighter note, Kerry's testimony probably had influence on the decision to abolish the draft... mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #33 February 13, 2004 Understood, some have already tried to flame North's comments. Thus my reference to it. RainboRainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #34 February 13, 2004 I'm willing to believe it if it comes from a credible source. I searched and could find no other claims that he "lied to congress" other than those attributed to Burkett. As far as North is concerned. He was convicted of lying to Congress, and then given immunity for it. And saying that we'll only associate him in one context is much like judging Kerry based on things he said over 30 years ago. Things that no one has proven to be untrue. Hey, I'm no gigantic fan of Kerry, but I don't buy that he lied to congress based on one persons say so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #35 February 13, 2004 Ok...and I'm willing to believe that Giap said it. Did the anti-war protests have anything to do with us not prevailing in Vietnam? Of course they did. It was public pressure that got us out of there and public opinion that kept us from going into a full out assault. John Kerry was instrumental in that public opinion. Did John Kerry want the war to be extended and for servicemen to die? No...he wanted out troops out of there, but the administration was not willing to do that, so they compromised and everyone lost out in the end. And if you look at all of Giap's comments, he actually says that they were ready to surrender until he heard Cronkite saying that the VC had taken over the embassy, even though it wasn't true. Later in his comment he states that the group Kerry was a leader of helped to ensure their victory. But he didn't say that Kerry was the reason they didn't surrender when they were going to, as the esteemed Mr. North said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #36 February 13, 2004 QuoteI'm willing to believe it if it comes from a credible source. I searched and could find no other claims that he "lied to congress" other than those attributed to Burkett. The claim was mine, based on Burkett, and I stand by it. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #37 February 13, 2004 That's what I'm saying...I've found lots of the same claim all over the internet, all attributed to Burkett and no one else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #38 February 13, 2004 QuoteThat's what I'm saying...I've found lots of the same claim all over the internet, all attributed to Burkett and no one else. I think FindLaw or Lexis-Nexis would be more helpful in finding more details, like VA fraud cases. Lawrocket? mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #39 February 13, 2004 QuoteJohn Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony (from Congressional record), which was subsequently proven to be BULLSHIT. KERRY LIED IN TESTIMONY TO CONGRESS I gotta call BULLSHIT on that one Mark... READ the testimony.... I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of one thousand, which is a small representation of a much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table, they would be here and have the same kind of testimony. I would like to say, representing all those veterans, that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over one hundred fifty honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to. war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did, they relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do. They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country. He was recounting the stories of men who were there or CLAIMED to have been there. I remember that time... I served at that time. I remember the divisiveness and the infighting between the HAWKS and the DOVES.. I remember the America Love it or Leave it. I remember what it was like to be in the military at the time and the treatment that I as a servicemember was subjected to. All of the same words are being used by the ultra right once again. AT least all of our servicemen and women are getting the support of the country that we did not get in that not so long ago time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #40 February 13, 2004 QuoteYou have to remember my words here. Most of the people who will challenge you will not really use knowledge based in research. They will use the 30 second sound bites disseminated by the Dem. party.(again not a partisan comment as I openly acknowledge the use of such tactics by the Rep. I think of this much the same as reading Romeo & Juliet in Cliff Notes as opposed to the real thing). There are those of us who actually studied what he said, when he said it, and the context that it was said in. This happened in my mil science classes. The military does like to learn from it's mistakes. Even back in the 70's. Whether these people want to believe what Col. North has to say based on their political beliefs becomes almost irrelevant. North is a astute military historian. Many in this forum will choose to only associate him in one context. Of course they will not bother to try and learn the whole story of that context either. North is a liar who only avoided jail time on a technicality.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #41 February 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'm willing to believe it if it comes from a credible source. I searched and could find no other claims that he "lied to congress" other than those attributed to Burkett. The claim was mine, based on Burkett, and I stand by it. mh My claim that Bush lied to Congress is the transcript of his 2002 and 2003 State of the Union Addresses, to be found at www.whitehouse.gov. That is a VERY credible source. Not only that, I watched him on TV and saw his lips moving.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #42 February 13, 2004 My claim that Bush lied to Congress is the transcript of his 2002 and 2003 State of the Union Addresses, to be found at www.whitehouse.gov. That is a VERY credible source. Not only that, I watched him on TV and saw his lips moving. I don't think that he lied. never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #43 February 13, 2004 QuoteHe was recounting the stories of men who were there or CLAIMED to have been there. He served there, so he personally KNEW BETTER. He or his stooges could have done a simple background check like Burkett did much later, but it sounded like what they wanted to hear. Of all the lies told about Vietnam vets, his were the worst, because he KNEW they were lies, but passed them along anyway because it was politically expedient to do so, in other words, political opportunism at its worst. He's guilty for taking the words of those liars as gospel, and using them to testify before Congress, and encouraging citizens to attack GIs publicly, as if they were the makers of policy, rather than the instruments of policy they've always been. He's therefore SHIT, and if he comes to Seattle I promise to scream "BABY KILLER!" to his face if I get the opportunity. The we'll see how he likes it. Edit (2) to add - my apologies to anyone reading this who may be upset by my remarks. This is a very, very hot button with me, and Jeanne, you don't have to take my word for any of this - I'll introduce you to my good friend Kregg Jorgenson, author of "Acceptable Loss". mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,433 #44 February 13, 2004 >> put such comments in the same category of Margie Schoedinger's >> comments, the woman who accused George W Bush of raping her . . . >I believe the quote is factual - I recall seeing it about ten years ago. So is Schoedinger's. The lawsuit is real; you can look up the complaint by entering her name here. Doesn't mean it _is_ real, just that she said it was. Same with Giap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #45 February 13, 2004 Quote>> put such comments in the same category of Margie Schoedinger's >> comments, the woman who accused George W Bush of raping her . . . >I believe the quote is factual - I recall seeing it about ten years ago. So is Schoedinger's. The lawsuit is real; you can look up the complaint by entering her name here. Doesn't mean it _is_ real, just that she said it was. Same with Giap. Very true. I (unfortunately) don't have a copy of Giap's book, so without hard facts it's say-so. mh"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #46 February 13, 2004 Quote My claim that Bush lied to Congress is the transcript of his 2002 and 2003 State of the Union Addresses, to be found at www.whitehouse.gov. That is a VERY credible source. Not only that, I watched him on TV and saw his lips moving. I don't think that he lied. What about this statement do you not understand? "Our budget will run a deficit that will be small and short-term." G.W. Bush, State of the Union Address, January 2002 (www.whitehouse.gov) Which must be placed in context to see that it is a lie. Bush's budget for 2005, submitted to Congress last month, has the largest deficit in history, $521 Billion. (www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/index.html) Bush's own budget director, Joshua Bolton, is now unable to predict when the deficit will be eliminated, and projects it will take 5 years just to cut the deficit to $237Billion. So unless you interpret "small" to mean "largest in history" and "short-lived" to mean "lasting into the forseeable future and beyond", he lied to Congress and the people. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #47 February 13, 2004 For some people, incorrectly seeing into the future is lying. Incorrectly interpreting from bad data is a lie. Using an economic theory which is flawed, is a lie. My company's vision statement is a lie because it says "we will be the most profitable in ...." instead of "if our plans work as theorized, we should be the most profitable in..." OH MY GOD, they should all resign and get sterilized. This is why politicians and now most anybody, waffles in statements, they get scourged when they can't absolutely predict the future. It's amazing scientists and engineers will build anything, because if it doesn't work, then they lied and should go to jail. It's amazing that these scientists and engineers' college professors teach them anything. Because if their students make a bad product, then they must have taught wrong and lied and should quit quickly before anymore harm occurs. No wonder it's so good to get a Liberal Arts degree, no responsibility just thinking about stuff and not setting a vision or making a decision. From now on, we can only hire perfect people for any job. The rest will have to go on welfare. John - Remind me to never offer to buy you a beer. Because if I die in a car accident on the way to the store to buy said six pack, I don't want you telling my family at the funeral that I was a lying SOB. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #48 February 13, 2004 QuoteFor some people, incorrectly seeing into the future is lying. Incorrectly interpreting from bad data is a lie. Using an economic theory which is flawed, is a lie. My company's vision statement is a lie because it says "we will be the most profitable in ...." instead of "if our plans work as theorized, we should be the most profitable in..." OH MY GOD, they should all resign and get sterilized. This is why politicians and now most anybody, waffles in statements, they get scourged when they can't absolutely predict the future. It's amazing scientists and engineers will build anything, because if it doesn't work, then they lied and should go to jail. It's amazing that these scientists and engineers' college professors teach them anything. Because if their students make a bad product, then they must have taught wrong and lied and should quit quickly before anymore harm occurs. No wonder it's so good to get a Liberal Arts degree, no responsibility just thinking about stuff and not setting a vision or making a decision. From now on, we can only hire perfect people for any job. The rest will have to go on welfare. John - Remind me to never offer to buy you a beer. Because if I die in a car accident on the way to the store to buy said six pack, I don't want you telling my family at the funeral that I was a lying SOB. Bush said we WOULD have a small and short lived deficit, and then HE proposed the largest ever deficit to Congress. It's not about missing a target, it's about saying one thing and doing the exact opposite of what you said. If you got invited to be on the 372 way and you set a 357 way record instead, you probably wouldn't be totally pissed off with the organizer. If you turned up in Thailand and found no planes, no airport, and your rig was stolen by the organizer, you'd call him a lying cheating thieving bastard.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivexxl 0 #49 February 13, 2004 "Read my lips..." Oh wait! Wrong Bush! Blog Clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #50 February 14, 2004 So now all the Libs including Terry McAuliffe who claimed Bush was AWOL during his service in the ANG must be considered liars too? I haven't searched your posts yet Kallend, but I'm sure you never made that claim, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
