Control line jammed

[captain1976 0]

I got wacked really good today on my Spectre 230. I suspect the slider came down from the stops a little during bagging as this happened before and I started banding it to the center B lines.

But using packers like I do most of the time it’s not always practical.

Anyway the opening was so hard I probably won’t be able to jump for a couple weeks.

What was interesting is the fact that the right toggle was pulled through the small ring (see pix) and it took 3 people to get it out. The picture shows the last part which was the hardest, it originally was in about ½ way.

I'm no expert on the subject but to pull it out of the keeper and force it through that ring must have took a lot of pressure.

Under the canopy I was still in shock so I didn’t see the problem until it was too late and I had to land that way countering the turn with the left rear riser (really a bitch) since I was in so much pain.

Back to the rubber bands, I already advised my packers to please do it as I cannot afford another opening like that.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[SEREJumper 1]

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but to pull it out of the keeper and force it through that ring must have took a lot of pressure.

Since I didn't see it in the picture, does your risers have a stowage pocket for the top part of your toggle? I know on early velcro risers it wasn't very common to have them.

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[sundevil777 94]

Perhaps after being bent once, that part of the toggle that isn't supposed to ever bend is more likely to bend again - perhaps it should be replaced?

After your slammer opening, were any of the locking stows on your bag broken?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Hellis 0]

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Back to the rubber bands, I already advised my packers to please do it as I cannot afford another opening like that.

You freepacked it?? No seriously, what do you mean? You used a rubberband-free-bag?

Hope you are ok

[captain1976 0]

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but to pull it out of the keeper and force it through that ring must have took a lot of pressure.

Since I didn't see it in the picture, does your risers have a stowage pocket for the top part of your toggle? I know on early velcro risers it wasn't very common to have them.

Yes it has the pocket, which means it pulled it out of there first.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[captain1976 0]

After your slammer opening, were any of the locking stows on your bag broken?

[captain1976 0]

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Back to the rubber bands, I already advised my packers to please do it as I cannot afford another opening like that.

You freepacked it?? No seriously, what do you mean? You used a rubberband-free-bag?


by "back to the rubber bands" I mean I put a band on the B lines to hold the slider up in place. see;

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=121613;

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Andy9o8 0]

Do you think adding a pocket to your slider would be a workable (extra) fail-safe?

[councilman24 36]

Are those after market toggles? I've been running into some that are made too floppy and can do this. Usually they have too much space between the zigzag and the grommet the the third layer of webbing doesn't go under the grommet. I've replaced several sets that people have bought at boogies that were like this.

In the photo I can't quite tell.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[base283 0]

Collaspsible slider maybe?
Take care,
space

[captain1976 0]

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Do you think adding a pocket to your slider would be a workable (extra) fail-safe?

Andy, Please tell me more about the pocket.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[captain1976 0]

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Collaspsible slider maybe?
Take care,
space

It is collapsible but the issue seems to be the slider moving away from the stops during bagging.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[captain1976 0]

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Are those after market toggles? I've been running into some that are made too floppy and can do this. Usually they have too much space between the zigzag and the grommet the the third layer of webbing doesn't go under the grommet. I've replaced several sets that people have bought at boogies that were like this.

In the photo I can't quite tell.

The toggles are the ones that come with the PD canopies. The photo was simply to show what a super-duper hard opening can do to it. I like the toggles and never had any issues with them

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Cueb 0]

use a better packer?

[Beatnik 2]

This might not be relevant but I feel it is worth asking. Have you checked the trim of the canopy? I knew someone with a Sabre 1 that was out of trim and it opened up so hard it broke three ribs. Once it was relined, it opened fine.

If one toggle was pulled through and the other was fine, I could believe it could also be caused be asymmetrical inflation. I am not implying this is the case here but I watched one person dump with a shoulder low and it ended up with him in the hospital with a cracked vertebrae.

It could be caused more than the slider moving away from the stops.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Do you think adding a pocket to your slider would be a workable (extra) fail-safe?

Andy, Please tell me more about the pocket.

The idea of a slider pocket, as well as a dome slider, is to increase the effect of the pressure of the relative wind against the slider to keep it up against the stops longer during the opening sequence before it starts to come down. I'll try to find some photos.

Here are some threads about them:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=cat_1&search_string=pocket+slider&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=post_time&mh=500

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=cat_1&search_string=dome+slider&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=post_time&mh=500
[/url]

[koppel 3]

PD canopies come with canopy material, lines and inks.

Containers come with toggles, risers, d-bags etc

While you may be happy with the performance of the toggles to date and while they may not have had a direct influence in the incident it would be worth having them checked and/or replacing by a pair from the manufacturer if of course your risers are not after-market as well

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[captain1976 0]

Thanks Andy I will do some research on it

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[captain1976 0]

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This might not be relevant but I feel it is worth asking. Have you checked the trim of the canopy? I knew someone with a Sabre 1 that was out of trim and it opened up so hard it broke three ribs. Once it was relined, it opened fine.

If one toggle was pulled through and the other was fine, I could believe it could also be caused be asymmetrical inflation. I am not implying this is the case here but I watched one person dump with a shoulder low and it ended up with him in the hospital with a cracked vertebrae.

It could be caused more than the slider moving away from the stops.

Hi Beatnic,
There is no doubt that a asymmetrical inflation took place, the left side of my body can attest to that, however with only 150 jumps on the canopy and no other problems to speak of, I will for now assume it was an issue with a slider off the stops.

Thanks for your input

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[captain1976 0]

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PD canopies come with canopy material, lines and inks.

Containers come with toggles, risers, d-bags etc

While you may be happy with the performance of the toggles to date and while they may not have had a direct influence in the incident it would be worth having them checked and/or replacing by a pair from the manufacturer if of course your risers are not after-market as well

I stand corrected. I will just put on a new set I have
Thanks

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[Beatnik 2]

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There is no doubt that a asymmetrical inflation took place, the left side of my body can attest to that, however with only 150 jumps on the canopy and no other problems to speak of, I will for now assume it was an issue with a slider off the stops.

The no other problems to date is the big thing that would make me not suspect anything else. However, being a new canopy doesn't mean there is no problems with it. Not saying this is the case here, just mentioning it mainly for others that are reading and may be having issues with a newer canopy. I have personally caught a couple of canopies that were brand new that weren't manufactured to spec. Which include crows feet on the ribs not being sewn in the seam, suspension line attachment points sewn in asymmetrical places on the canopies, ribs larger than others, lines not to spec and a few other things.

This whole thing may be just a strange and one time occurrence as well. One of my Safire's that I have put hundreds of jumps on, on one jump knocked me out and ended up splitting me open in a few spots. It usually snivels for about 1100 - 1300 ft if there is no riser or toggle input during opening. It has never done anything close to that again and was packed the same way it was always packed and by the same person, myself.

[captain1976 0]

Put to several people over the last couple of days including the manufacturers of both the rig (Dolphin) and the main (PD), along with some very well known friends, I think its narrowed down to 3 possibilities since it was obviously an out-of-sequence opening.

The first one is a possible body position issue. I will admit when I'm by myself I don't pay as much attention to it as I should. Having a so-called "sniveling" canopy probably made me a bit sloppy there.

The other was a problem Bill Booth recently commented on where he believes hard openings can be caused by uneven riser releases, whether they are velcro or tucks.

The last issue could have been uneven line stows, however they are always double-banded.

I'm just going to pay a little more attention to those items in the future and see what happens.

Thanks all for your comments and input.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[erdnarob 1]

It seems that you got a slider away from its stoppers. When you are bagging your parachute, comb the lines near the canopy toward the top to make sure the slider grommets are still against the stoppers. Make sure to have the right rubber bands.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.