happythoughts 0 #1 February 27, 2004 Quote NEW YORK (Reuters) - Technology companies are seeing a rebound in business, but top executives this week said any jobs added to meet growing demand will likely be in countries where labor is cheaper than the United States. Executives speaking at the Reuters Technology, Media and Telecommunications Summit in New York said they see increased hiring in countries like India and China, but few jobs will be added in the United States. Quote Michael Jordan, chief executive of technology services provider Electronic Data Systems Corp. (NYSE:EDS - news) said EDS's number of employees in low-cost locations like India will rise to 20,000 from 9,000, by 2006. 11000 new jobs overseas Quote Bruce Claflin, chief executive of network products maker 3Com Corp. (NasdaqNM:COMS - news) said the company's joint-venture with Huawei Technologies of China will add 1,000 engineers, all supplied by Huawei. 1000 more, bye-bye. QuoteAnne Mulcahy, chief executive of Xerox Corp., which has about 40 percent of its 60,000 employees outside the U.S., expects little hiring. Xerox has already handed over manufacturing of most printers to Flextronics International Ltd. of Singapore. U.S. technology employment fell 4 percent last year to just below 6 million, the American Electronics Association estimates, the lowest level since 1999. The unemployment rate for electrical and electronics engineers rose to a record 6.2 percent, the Institute for Electrical and Electronics Engineers said. Non-U.S. technology companies had a banner year in 2003. Jim Thomas, U.S. marketing vice president for Tata Consultancy Services of India, said Tata had double-digit growth in the United States, estimating overall U.S. business reached almost $1 billion from $880 million in fiscal 2002. I sure wouldn't like to be a US engineer graduating from college. Or someone in manufacturing. Or a business degree, who do they think they are going to manage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #2 February 27, 2004 Quote I sure wouldn't like to be a US engineer graduating from college. Or someone in manufacturing. Or a business degree, who do they think they are going to manage? Difficult to outsource janitorial services or shoeshine services. That's where the future lies.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #3 February 27, 2004 They'll go the same place they've mostly always gone - small business. Small business has always been the growth of the American economy, and far outpaces large business in their effects on the economy. The idea that tech workers are all toiling anonymously at huge tech conglomerates is false. Most are toiling anonymously at tiny businesses struggling to make ends meet. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffD 0 #4 February 27, 2004 I am in a company right now who is outsourcing engineering jobs to India, and all I can say is it is going to be very difficult and there are many many difficulties in sending jobs overseas. (Alot of time delay - up to 2 days from something being sent to it being reviewed) Electrical engineers can be assured jobs if they work for government contracting agencies because no government work can be viewed by someone who is not a US citizen. I'm not worried. (I've got 1.5yrs before I graduate with my BSEE) (heres an example of the time delay) I need a "indian" engineer to give me a drawing for a customer I just talked to. So I send it out. 2 days later I get a response. I review it for a day, make changes and send it back (another 2 days) then it takes me 2 days to get it back. Then it needs to be tested.... another 2 days. etc. it just makes a real hassle for something that could easily be done in a day or two "here" will take up to a few weeks because of outsourcing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #5 February 27, 2004 Hmmm...EDS is pretty darn big. 11000 jobs is a lot. If small business has this huge impact, why is the tech sector unemployment rate at its highest? QuoteMore than 21,000 Verizon workers have accepted an early retirement package as the corporation, the largest telephone company in the US, seeks to cut costs, boost its falling stock price and trim some of the massive debt accumulated over the past few years. The cuts at Verizon, the largest carried out in the company’s history and affecting both management and unionized workers, signal more job hemorrhaging in a telecommunications industry that has already seen the elimination of nearly half a million jobs over the past three years. I've worked for multinationals for the last 15 years. The number of jobs affected is huge. Small business can't touch this type of volume. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #6 February 27, 2004 QuoteQuote I sure wouldn't like to be a US engineer graduating from college. Or someone in manufacturing. Or a business degree, who do they think they are going to manage? Difficult to outsource janitorial services or shoeshine services. That's where the future lies. So sorry. The Mexicans have already snapped those up. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuvToFly 0 #7 February 27, 2004 QuoteDifficult to outsource janitorial services or shoeshine services. That's where the future lies. That's not actually true! I understand the shoeshine industry now figured out it can save 25 cents per shine by sending people's shoes to India, having them polished by an 8-year old working for 25 cents per day, then sent back... (Okay, a little cynical.. but was just in the mood to... what can I say??) "The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #8 February 27, 2004 QuoteElectrical engineers can be assured jobs if they work for government contracting agencies because no government work can be viewed by someone who is not a US citizen. Really? I have heard that certain states are trying to put through that legislation, but there is no law currently. Where did you hear that? For software, in Europe, personal data cannot be sent overseas. There is no law here because banks do their processing overseas all the time. Everyone in Washington is trying to push through the "govt excluded" policy to save their little turf, but there is no rule. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #9 February 27, 2004 Quote. it just makes a real hassle for something that could easily be done in a day or two "here" will take up to a few weeks because of outsourcing. True. They can easily solve that problem by removing you from the loop. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #10 February 27, 2004 Kurt Vonnegut wrote a book in which all US prisons were outsourced to Mexico. The bribery was enormous and escapes daily, but no one cared because they were in Mexico. It doesn't sound like that bad of an idea from a cost perspective, but prisons seem to be the only growing US industry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #11 February 27, 2004 Small business is 99 % of all employers. Small business make up for 45% of all payroll. If you exclude the mega-rich corporate CEO's, that number jumps to close to 60%. There are a hundred thousand more firms with 20>500 employees in 2003 then 2002, and another 500 thousand new firms in that size range are expected in the next 5 years. Small business continues to be the growth engine of the US Economy. They create 60-80% of the new jobs created, and currently employ 39% of the high tech workforce. With the small business growth rate being what it is, new grads will be smart to focus their job search there. http://www.clickz.com/stats/markets/smallbiz/article.php/10098_2219231 _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #12 February 27, 2004 Prison growth is an aspect of government growth. I've thought about applying for the USBoP, but the nearest Federal joint is down by Olympia - that would be a long-assed commute. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #13 February 27, 2004 Everything is getting outsourced these days. You know Levi Jeans aren't even made in the US anymore? That's sad. http://www.hireamerica.us/ has a nice list of companies sending business overseas.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #14 February 27, 2004 QuoteSmall business is 99 % of all employers. Since this is a discussion about why the tech sector unemployment is at its highest rate, a general figure doesn't help. The 2 women who clean my apartment, the guy who changes my oil, and the guy who guards the gate - all work for small businesses. Focusing on tech jobs, the picture is a little different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #15 February 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteSmall business is 99 % of all employers. Since this is a discussion about why the tech sector unemployment is at its highest rate, a general figure doesn't help. The 2 women who clean my apartment, the guy who changes my oil, and the guy who guards the gate - all work for small businesses. Focusing on tech jobs, the picture is a little different. It's not 99% of all employEES... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #16 February 27, 2004 QuotePrison growth is an aspect of government growth. I've thought about applying for the USBoP, but the nearest Federal joint is down by Olympia - that would be a long-assed commute. mh . Hi Author! WDOC has a womens "facility" located in Gig Harbor. I think the training time for Correctional officers is only 2-3 month's if that. Their always looking for employee's. Personnaly I think the only "good jobs" would be the persons who drives around the outside of the perimeter fence 24/7. BTW "the people in prison aren't nice and then you have to deal with the inmates" But it could give you some material for a book. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #17 February 27, 2004 Quote It's not 99% of all employEES Which makes the problem worse. There are a lot of mom-and-pop tech shops with 3 geeks in them. I work in a complex with 3 4-story buildings, and 4 3-story buildings, plus a 2-story datacenter. Over 1500 people. A hospital with 2500 employees may only employee 50 techies. It takes a lot of small businesses to equal one corporate center. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #18 February 27, 2004 After reading these news, working in MANIFEST or as a PACKER is getting more and more appealing to me.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 1 #19 February 27, 2004 QuoteAfter reading these news, working in MANIFEST or as a PACKER is getting more and more appealing to me. No shit Do you want fries with that?She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #20 February 27, 2004 Not really. The term "small business" generally does not refer to "mom and pop" shops. Small Business is typically defined as being one having between 20 and 500 employees. Additionally, an increasingly large number of Small Businesses are entirely technical - computers, software, and internet related. For example, I work for a Very Small Business - there's 5 of us, and 4 of us are technies. One marketing guy. We don't fit the "Small Business" moniker yet... hopefully soon. We're a software company, targetting the home building industry. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #21 February 27, 2004 QuoteNo shit Do you want fries with that? Hey...at least I'd have fun.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #22 February 27, 2004 Quote We're a software company, targetting the home building industry. I wrote a system for job cost estimation myself. From CNN QuoteAn August Federal Reserve study estimates that as many as 79 percent of jobs are in industries where jobs have been lost forever, a phenomenon Fed economists call "structural change." Another estimate by Forester Research goes into more specifics. Forrester estimates that by 2015, some 3.3 million service-sector jobs will be shipped overseas or rendered obsolete by technology. QuoteThose include computer programming and software engineer jobs, that have long been leaving the country. By 2015, 26 percent of those jobs will be gone, says McCarthy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NEcrewDOG 0 #23 February 27, 2004 Being in the software development field, I've seen this take place right in front of me at 2 companies. It really pisses me off as a born citizen with a college education that we're being forced to look around for jobs and take lower wages because our gov't allows cheaper labor from outside to replace us. There's a large ripple affect that takes place because of this. The first problem is that the market is flooded with unemployed programmers, making it harder to find jobs. It also affects all of the colleges that have computer science programs. No one is going to enroll in these programs when they find out that the market is terrible. There has to be a strict cap on allowing cheap, outsourced work. It's impossible to compete against India and China because they'll work for pennies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #24 February 27, 2004 QuoteThere's a large ripple affect that takes place because of this. Sure, I'm unemployed so I don't buy cars, houses, go out to eat, shop for clothes... Therefore, my car salesman, home builder, restauranteur start to lay off people. Ask anyone in software in Dallas what it is like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #25 February 27, 2004 QuoteQuotePrison growth is an aspect of government growth. I've thought about applying for the USBoP, but the nearest Federal joint is down by Olympia - that would be a long-assed commute. mh . Hi Author! WDOC has a womens "facility" located in Gig Harbor. I think the training time for Correctional officers is only 2-3 month's if that. Their always looking for employee's. Personnaly I think the only "good jobs" would be the persons who drives around the outside of the perimeter fence 24/7. BTW "the people in prison aren't nice and then you have to deal with the inmates" But it could give you some material for a book. R.I.P. Ah, I getcha, but that wasn't what I was thinking of. An IT job was more what I had in mind. I'm already too old for the Federal retirement system for LEOs/COs mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
