diver123 0 #1 August 29, 2001 Has anyone ever been to the DZ in Vegas? Listen to this: A group of my friends and I were out there for vacation this past weekend and I had pre-arranged a trip to the DZ so a couple of them could make their first jump. Naturally, I took my rig along expecting to make one with them... So it's the morning of and I call the DZ to get a time to bring them out. As I'm talking with the DZO I casually mention the fact that I can't wait to make one too and he puts the brakes on immediately! He begins to lecture me in a very condescending way about how he's running a multi-million dollar tandem operation out there and that fun jumpers are not allowed!!! He goes on to quote stories about how fun jumpers always go out there and ruin his opportunity for furthered business by not complying with the local "rules" set forth by himself... This totally catches me off guard and I reassure him that I'm a C licensed skydiver and have no intentions of doing anything other than enjoying the experience with my friends... He responds with, "Anyone who has not attended HIS AFF course is not welcome to jump out there ever!". At this point I'm pretty desperate because one of my friends says she's not willing to jump unless I'm in the plane with her so I offer to make a mock aff dive allowing one of his "instructors" to accompany me and ensure that I follow his rules!!! He gets snappy and insists that if he must chose between allowing skydivers the opportunity to jump or his "multi-million" dollar business, he choses the business... As you can probably imagine, I'm totally shocked at this point cause I'd never experienced anything like this in my short career. Nevertheless, I talk my friends into sticking with the trip and we all head out to make a jump (except me) :( ...Remember when I told you about his, and I quote, "multi-million" dollar business? Yeah, we get out there and the place is pretty much a dump. All FIVE of their tandem rigs are all beat up and they were using recycled high school shop suits as jump suits...! After doing some investigation, I found that out of the handful of employess working for him, more than half were disgruntled and did not agree with the way he ran his business, but could not say anything for fear of losing their source of income. The whole thing really was pretty suspect... I'd think if a person was bringing in that much money they'd at least re-invest a portion into their business to better it for the longevity of profit... You'd think anyway...! Anyway, that's my two cents about that DZ... It's a poor enviornment and the business is run at an even lesser level... All skydivers who are interested in keeping the friendly, safe enviornments in our sport a standard, please steer clear of this DZ... Not like you can jump there anyway! "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #2 August 29, 2001 well,there are lots of dz in this world and this happens sometimes. lets not get into a dz bashing mode here. i too have had a bad experiance with this dz but that's history.... i did jump here in nevada (i'm in vagas for a month) down in a town called jean. it's a 30 minute drive from the strip (closer than SLV too) and they are really nice people. they fly a cesna 206. the aircraft could use a little more in the way of looks but it does the job. they do tandems and fun jumpers and aff.a big plus: airconditioned packing space!!! there is an alternitive to SLV. the name of the place is 'Las vegas gravity zone""up my noooossseee"- wingnut, at first euro dz.com boogie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #3 August 29, 2001 Wow. Did your friends go ahead and jump there?! I think I probably would've saved my tandem for another time and place!I'm actually starting to get a little saddened by some of the attitudes I've gotten from certain people in the skydiving business. So much so, that I've actually reconsidered the entire sport altogether if this is the way things are everywhere. Just today I hear a rumor of someone who is upset at me over something I said on these forums (which was simply an experience I had and the facts of that experience) and called my DZO to complain apparently. This person could very well have contacted me personally, but did not. And my opinion is that all of us post positive, and negative, experiences we've had here and if you don't want to see something negative, don't make it that way. I've seen a lot of good things written about L & B and the service they provide. I heard from Freaksis about the service she received from the Dolphin manufacturer when she needed adjustments, getting them done within a day of their receiving it. I guess my point if people like the DZO in Vegas want to have a good reputation, they should earn it. Things like what happened to you WILL get out, regardless of whether it's on here or elsewhere. I certainly wouldn't go to Vegas now to jump if that's the 'welcome' I'd receive!PA new page! Bi-Plane pics! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #4 August 29, 2001 Everyone has heard the statistic that a satisfied customer tells 3-5 people but a dissatisfied customer tells 50. With the internet multiply those numbers by thousands. I'm an asshole but I dont run a business so I dont care what people tell others behind my back. Like me or fuck off....LOL"The cab driver said... he recognized my girly by the back of her head" -Beasty BoysClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #5 August 29, 2001 QuoteEveryone has heard the statistic that a satisfied customer tells 3-5 people but a dissatisfied customer tells 50. I imagine Bill Gates, for instance, could write a book about that subject! :) He's still filthy rich, the lucky bastard!I actually thought about this a little...it's rather flattering that my opinion on anything would matter to anyone that much! Gee...I guess you guys *do* care. I'm touched! {sniffle} A new page! Bi-Plane pics! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #6 August 29, 2001 "Gee...I guess you guys *do* care. I'm touched! {sniffle} "Pammi, of course we care! Especially if your braless in a wet t-shirt. You will have our undivided attention.LMAO"The cab driver said... he recognized my girly by the back of her head" -Beasty BoysClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpervali 1 #7 August 29, 2001 I've heard about this business practice as of lately at SLV. I in no way agree with this policy. If you must be a graduate of HIS aff program to safely jump there that's bull. His aff program is the same that any USPA dropzone uses, or he is in violation of bsr's. If he is the business owner he can deny your right to jump at his DZ. But.... He is on very shaky ground when it comes to as why. If HIS students acquire the same A license you have (USPA) and are then allowed to jump there, then your civil liberties are being infringed on. I'm sure the ACLU would like this one. If he is multimillion dollar. I know that's a bit much, but a savvy business man would know this. At one point a few years ago he tried to get skydiving state regulated so any non-uspa dz could not operate in the state. The uspa went to bat for skydiving to remain unregulated, even though he was uspa. They want government to stay out of our sport. So mister uspa dz only wanted to shut down skydiving except for himself. If he was so "lets have uspa dropzones only" in this state why can't a uspa licensed member jump there, isn't it the best program? He is so full of leaks all his greed is pouring out. jumpervali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #8 August 29, 2001 Ah, gee, thanks Clay :) Perhaps I'll try that with Merrick..he seems to always space when we're having one of our 'talks'. Gee, wonder why....lol!A new page! Bi-Plane pics! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #9 August 29, 2001 See, that's another thing that bit me! During our conversation, I politely asked them if they new of any other Dz's in the area so I could get a jump or two in, but they claimed to be the only one in Nevada... I guess I should've taken the time to find out myself. Call it what you want (bashing), but things like that should not and do not have to be tolerated. 50% of the reason I stayed in this sport was because of the actual jump, the other 50% was because of the people!!! I feel it's my responsibility to make things like this known so we can do our part to weed out these pirate dz's and keep our atmosphere pure..."pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #10 August 29, 2001 QuoteCall it what you want (bashing), but things like that should not and do not have to be tolerated. 50% of the reason I stayed in this sport was because of the actual jump, the other 50% was because of the people!!! Thank you. A new page! Bi-Plane pics! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpervali 1 #11 August 29, 2001 Your right! We are not just skydivers, we are the sport of skydiving. We are what the public see.chin up, chest out, arch baby!jumpervali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #12 August 29, 2001 Thanks jumpervali, that was part of my point. I really didn't understand how he could imply that his teaching methods only were acceptable when they were mandated by the same authority. I didn't know the info about the USPA/DZ thing, that's very interesting... I'm not surprised one bit. Bottom line is this: I love this sport and I mean that. I don't want us as a group (skydivers) to go soft on a principal that is the foundation for the enviornment we exist in ya know. That's a horrible thing that he can have a dictatorship like that out there and continue doing business. It's one thing to have a private dz and decide who can jump and who cannot, but when he's exposing 1000's of new people to our sport each year (so he says) in that manner, it becomes a problem. Case in point: Without any influence of mine, two out of the three first time jumpers I took said, "If that's the way all the places are, we don't want to do it again!"... Can you imagine that?!!! After experiencing something like your first free fall, not wanting to do it again cause of some prick with a Napolean complex!!! "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #13 August 29, 2001 "he seems to always space when we're having one of our 'talks'. Gee, wonder why....lol!"Well...he'll certainly be paying attention but probably not listening to anything you say!"She called up and said a bunch of stuff about we never go out and I never listen and some other stuff I dont know. I wasn't paying attention"- Dumb and Dumber"The cab driver said... he recognized my girly by the back of her head" -Beasty BoysClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #14 August 29, 2001 I know there is more to this story. Someone take us back to Skydiving in Las Vegas, before Mike Hawks - they had another DZ close down..right? Didn't they have a DZ with a REVOKED membership? Fly Your Slot ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #15 August 29, 2001 I don't have a whole lot of info other than the second hand stuff some of the employees were telling me about...and what I saw/experienced for myself. Oh, and just to bash a little more get this: they're tandem price is 200.00 (that's at least 20$ higher than the average I've seen) and their "video" package of their 25 second free fall (that's right...25 seconds cause they'll only take you to 8 grand by order of the DZO) is an additional 125.00 bringing your grand total for a shitty time at a half-ass dz to 325.00!!! *customer service is available for an additional charge..."pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #16 August 29, 2001 "bringing your grand total for a shitty time at a half-ass dz to 325.00!!!"Thats about on par for the rest of Lost Wages isnt it? It's kinda like one big titty bar. You're going to get fucked but ya ain't gonna have sex. "The cab driver said... he recognized my girly by the back of her head" -Beasty BoysClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parduhn 0 #17 August 29, 2001 Glad you made the report. I don't consider it dz bashing if you are just stating the facts about the business. It is apparent the guy is a jerk. Maybe I will call every Saturday morning and say I have two tandems for him and I would like to jump too...SamUSPA skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #18 August 29, 2001 QuoteMaybe I will call every Saturday morning and say I have two tandems for him and I would like to jump too...Now that is instigating. Funny, though.JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diver123 0 #19 August 29, 2001 I think we should all give him a call posing as first time jumpers and ask him if there are any other DZ's in Vegas so our group of 3 or 4 can go make a skydive... When he asks, "Why not make one here? We're the best/largest tandem operation in the U.S....", we'll reply, "Cause we've heard about the way you do business"... It would be enough for me to know that he knew we knew...! Did that make sense? "pull high! It's lower than you think..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluehair 0 #20 August 29, 2001 This is a damn shame It really bothers me to see this kind of operation especially when it is some-ones first introduction to the sport Myself and my girlfriend are planning a break in Vegas around Oct/Nov and I had it in mind to get her a tandem as a surprise but you can scratch that idea now.Thanks for the warning folks I would have kicked my-self if this had been her baptism into Skydiving! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #21 August 29, 2001 "scratch that idea now."Hey Wingnut mentioned another DZ in Jean that was nice. No Otter but a 206 isn't that bad. She won't know the difference anyway."The cab driver said... he recognized my girly by the back of her head" -Beasty BoysClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumperpaula 0 #22 August 29, 2001 Quote from the website at : SkydiveLasVegas.com under the Experience Jumpers link: "BECAUSE OF PAST PROBLEMS WITH "FUN JUMPERS"BREAKING OUR RULES; SLV WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT FUN JUMPERS WHO HAVE NOT GRADUATED FROM OUR SLV STUDENT PROGRAM" Fly Your Slot ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #23 August 29, 2001 ICK! What a lame thing to post on your website. I guess this guy is forgetting at least one aspect of dropzone business: experienced jumpers talk whuffos into making a tandem...money follows!SisI lust for the ultimate rush... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #24 August 29, 2001 Unfortunately, this happens in areas where tourists rhein supreme. It's almost this bad in Key West from what I hear."The cab driver said... he recognized my girly by the back of her head" -Beasty BoysClay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy 0 #25 August 29, 2001 I'm always suspicious of anyone who turns away good business, expecially in circumstances that you described. It makes me wonder if he has something to hide. Perhaps you being there exposes more than just the fact that $325 US for a Tandum and vid is a total-royal-f***ing rip off. Well, if he can 325 for 3 slots to 8K, I guess he would turn people back.Multi-million dollar business.. my ass. Well, after scalping everyone like that he might come close.I'll be sure to pass this story on to anyone who heads that way.Cheers,NewGuy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
