winsor 187 #101 March 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteI shoot them to stop them from threatening me or others. shoot, kill, and after that put a gun in his hand. Then you don't want me on the jury. You are within your rights to shoot someone who makes a move that may be construed as going for a weapon. If you tamper with evidence, your rights go out the window. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #102 March 13, 2004 I hate to be the one to tell you all, but cops do not shoot to kill. They shoot to stop. It just so happens center mass is the most effective way to stop someone. Ducky, in saying shoot to stop, and I am not advocating some John Wayne shoot em in the hand BS. However, I am advocating cease fire once he's no longer a threat, and saying follow up head shot amount to an execution. Why is this a difficult concept for so many people? There are options between shoot to skill and shoot to wound. For the last time, shoot to stop is shooting center mass, that's why I didn't vote shoot to wound. I will not say I was shooting to kill. I reserve that for hunting and times of war. And since I'm no longer obligated to any of the armed services, unless war comes to these shores, I'm not interested in shooting to kill.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanofOZ 0 #103 March 13, 2004 The theory of shooting to wound is not realistic IMO unless you want to blow a finger off the guy. If I ever shoot at a human being it will be to stop what he is doing right then. I can be assured that will happen with the .45cal by my bed, and 230 grain hydrashocks. I am not going to use a sling-shot to protect my family from an intruder. If that person makes the decision to break in my house and put my family in any form of danger, he will pay the ultimate price. When someone breaks in to a house, they are fully aware of what they are doing, and the consequence. The only time I would not put 3 shots center mass is if it was a kid that was unarmed. There is still a chance for him to do better with his life. If a grown man is in my house, the castle doctrine will take effect, and he will be shot as he should be. Wounded people sue, dead ones cant. In Florida we dont mess around like the liberals in California.Oz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #104 March 13, 2004 I can't believe this one is still going on. We've beat the shit out of this horse. However, I think some of us, tactically speaking, come at this from different sides. Not discrediting anything you've said Kennedy, but here's the way I see it. In most cases, when we do forced entries in SF, we're shooting to kill. Not always, but most of the time. If we shoot, it is to kill as efficiently as possible. That said, the procedure is to double tap to the chest (center mass; because that's the easiest place to hit in a stressful situation). If they don't fall and keep coming, we put one to the head. If they keep coming, we put one to the thigh. They last shot is just to "stop" their advancement towards us because they are obviously not meant to die. The whole time, you never let them within 6 feet of you. Preferably longer than that. My point is that, if you're just aiming to "stop" them and not kill them, a shot to the thigh would probably be the best option. If you get shot center mass in the chest, you're probably not going to make it without immediate attention. I don't have any idea what the police teach. Again, not trying to contradict you. Just adding a different perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #105 March 13, 2004 Well, since I don't own a gun, the point is moot. but saying I did... er, there's a reason I don't own a gun...I'm just not a very good shot. I probably wouldn't be confident enough in my own abilities to fire at him, and besides, it's just stuff. Stuff can be replaced. If I shot and missed, what would he do? There's too many uncertainties for me to answer the question. Now, if he were threatening me or my family, then I'd unload in his general direction and hope that one of my badly-aimed bullets hits him. But kill him for stuff? no way. Like I said, it's just stuff.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #106 March 13, 2004 Quotedeadly force is just fine in Texas to protect your property. So things are more important in your country than lifes..i could understand if you shoot to kill if your life is in danger.But else you could only shoot to warn a person that you will shoot at the person if the person dont stay were he/she is,and if they keep running then take a leg or arm.. I dont like robbers(hell the only criminals i like is BASEjumpers),but im of the belive that they should go to jail and not die... Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #107 March 13, 2004 I agree with you, however there are distinct difference. With a SWAT/SRT/whatever you call it team clearing a room, there is intelligence. You are also generally going for the kill shot because there tend to be innocents in the room. I'm not going for the thigh shot for the simple reason that I want to know I'm hitting the bastard hard. The thigh is pretty damned small and unless you get the femur, not a great choice for first shots. Simply, I wouldn't go for a head shot unless I've hit him multiple times, he's not moving fast, but he's still actively threatening me (as in still trying to draw a gun or get closer to me). 6 feet? You're braver than me. If it's my choice he's staying out at 20 feet or more. Any closer and (A) FBI doctrine backs up your shots and (B) it's just too close for comfort. And everyone remember, it's not embarrasing if someone hurts you with your own gun. But they should have to beat you to death with it because it's empty. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #108 March 13, 2004 It is a lot harder to make the head or thigh shots if you don’t shoot all the time. I totally agree with the center mass drill for whatever reason. I personally don’t care if the guy dies. I believe he lost his rights for life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness as soon as he broke into my house. Center mass will stop him, if that’s your goal, and it will most probably kill him, if that’s your goal. See, I love compromise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #109 March 13, 2004 QuoteWhat would I do though? I'm going for center of mass for 2 and up just slightly for a 3rd, just like I've practiced over and over and over and over... Sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. That's the way I had always been trained and drilled. Two to the chest, one to the head. When I had to actually call upon my training, it stopped after the first two. Threat neutralized, no point in the third - especially considering where that round would have gone had I missed. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #110 March 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteYeah, I guess executing some midnight TP'ers would be a lil overboard. What if it is USED TP? That's easy...just rub their noses in it.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AdD 1 #111 March 13, 2004 Can you really shoot someone just for being in your house even if they don't appear to be armed? Does someone deserve to die for stealing your TV set? Give me a break. Protecting your family is important, but you don't necessarily need to put one between his eyes to do that.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #112 March 13, 2004 Quotei could understand if you shoot to kill if your life is in danger.But else you could only shoot to warn a person that you will shoot at the person if the person dont stay were he/she is,and if they keep running then take a leg or arm.. take the arm or a leg... ha! funny opion!! how do you think someone is able just to aim at these points in the midnight, just waking up from sleeping, a woman with her child??? suddenly, there is a black shadow in your bedroom. you do not know if he's got a knife or a hand gun..? can you imagine the adrenaline output in such situation? i own several weapons in my home as a licensed hunter, they are locked ins special required safes (law rules). but, anyhow in that special case, i would use my hand gun. w ithout asking with a tremulous voice: who's there, what do you want?? why should i give any chance to a burglar to harm my family or myself? f. e., the problem with junkies is increasing rapidly in Germany. they just kill an 80 yrs old lady for 10 US$. i'm not John Wayne's wife, but will do anything to protect my folks and myself. if i have the possibility with my hand gun, i just would use it. this simply is depending on the actual situation. if he's running away, i surely would not shoot after him. but if such a guy is entering my home and my hand gun is available quick enough, i use it. no doubt. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chopchop 0 #113 March 13, 2004 Okay.. I am not really up on guns all that much. I was in the military, learned how to shoot an M-16 and all that but the whole idea of a firearm in my home never really seemed like a good idea to me. The biggest reason is accidental shootings. Now.. I know about gun safes and that you are supposed to lock your weapons up in there so kids don't get a hold of them and they aren't easily stolen and that makes perfect sense to me. Makes it okay to have a firearm in the home for use in hunting or range shooting. My question is.. if you are responsible in storing your gun, how the hell you gonna pull it on the robber to begin with? chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #114 March 13, 2004 I'm absolutely amazed at some of the responses here. "Shoot to wound" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you shoot, you shoot to neutralize the threat. Call it what you want - "shoot to stop" or "shoot to kill". For me, neutralizing the threat begins with two to the chest, with a follow up to the head if necessary(not to simply kill, but to NEUTRALIZE). If somebody is in my home uninvited and I feel they are a threat to myself or anybody else - or I simply don't know without a doubt that they are NOT a threat - I will neutralize the threat. If I am 100% sure that they are not a threat(chances are this will never happen in the given situation), I will not fire unless they become a threat. If you speak to them, do so in single words until there is no threat. There was a study done many years ago that showed that if a person is speaking, it will take them at least 3 words to spot, register, and react to a threat. That may be enough time for the perp to kill you. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #115 March 13, 2004 :::runs to get the fire extinguisher for all the flames about to erupt::: .witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #116 March 13, 2004 QuoteMy question is.. if you are responsible in storing your gun, how the hell you gonna pull it on the robber to begin with? I am very responsible with storing my guns. They are always in a safe. Except for the ones that are on my person. Usually two of 'em. No better storage place than that. At night, I have a handgun in a safe right next to my bed. You know the type....you put your hand on a handprint, enter your code(via buttons at the tips of your fingers), it pops open and the holster slides out. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #117 March 13, 2004 Hey, Douva! How you doin'? I recently took the CHL - Class and we were told... NO warning shots. When a sho tis fired into the air, you have now idea where that bullet is going to land. Especially in a populated area. You draw your weapon, be sure of your shot and shoot to kill. Don't try to scare them or wound them! They wouldn't give you a second chance. Like the man said earlier... DON'T shoot them in the back, it would look to authorities that he was trying to leave. As for the Winnebago 'incident', by shooting the driver, you risk your family's lives. Let 'em go and go back to the convenience store and call the cops. You have all the info on the Winnebago and your family... after all, they are yours! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #118 March 13, 2004 Quotehow do you think someone is able just to aim at these points in the midnight, just waking up from sleeping, a woman with her child??? suddenly, there is a black shadow in your bedroom. you do not know if he's got a knife or a hand gun..? can you imagine the adrenaline output in such situation? As a hunter you know the adrenalin,i has a hunter licens aswell,if you cant handel that kind of adrenalin then you perhaps shouldnt have guns...At least i see no reasson to go for the kill in first case,most time if you just wount a person,the person wont do more harm to you. Quotewhy should i give any chance to a burglar to harm my family or myself? NEVER,should you let any harm your family,NEVER.In that case i would kill anyone aswell,but only if i knew/assume that they would do any harm to us.. if the person just want mony to a fix or so,then i wouldnt borther to kill the person,but sure would try to stop him/her,and if taking em down by a shoot to an leg or arm i will do so,but never go for a kill(unless its my only/last option). Quotewill do anything to protect my folks and myself. if i have the possibility with my hand gun, i just would use it. and to that your no difference to anyone else.But please considder if its nessasery to kill,just like when your out hunting.. some animals You just dont shoot,its not the time or place..its called respect for living in this world,killing should be to survive(ie getting away,or getting some food,even as its to the freeze) just my oppinion,i dont think you can messure a lamp pictures to a life,but i agree that noone would survive to treat my family on their lives in a way that i felt unsafe,atleast not whith out me trying to take em out once and for all.A burgler dont make that treat to me(depending) Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dougjumper 0 #119 March 13, 2004 Did someone say Rob Me? I dont think you want to Rob me..Dont have Shit. Not to mention if you did try..bottom line ... Taking you Out....so Better think long and hard before you do it. Knowing you Life is very well at Stake with me. Not gonna leave you around to get out of Jail to Rob someone else. Not to mention I dont want my Skydiving Friends paying Taxes on your Sorry Ass so you can live it up in Jail. Youre Going Down Sorry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #120 March 13, 2004 QuoteAs a hunter you know the adrenalin,i has a hunter licens aswell,if you cant handel that kind of adrenalin then you perhaps shouldnt have guns yup, you'r right, i should know how to handle a gun. believe me, i know how to handle it when i'm hunting let's say deer... (additionally, my weekly training in a big calibre hand gun club is something i do not want to miss!) ok, but this animal is not attacking me! except man eater, animals are not attacking !! i keep my finger straight in more than 60 percent of shooting "chances". i know if aiming is good, shoot will be successfull. if not.. ..i do not shoot! but this is deer hunting, my dear. QuoteAt least i see no reasson to go for the kill in first case,most time if you just wount a person,the person wont do more harm to you. oh man, no reason.... for what?? to let him be the first when is just entering my living room with any kind of weapon in his hand?? i never would like to face a situation to have killed someone! but that moment, when i'm absolutely sure of what this person is, i just shoot! without asking, without aiming the leg or the arm... as soon as a realize this is a burglar, this is a stranger, this is not my husband, not my son coming home from a drunken party!, i will never hesitate...i shoot just into this strange shadow. no willing to kill. only for defense purpose. i am living in a very safe quarter of a city with about 1 million inhabitants. our own "quarter sheriff" knows everybody around here. and he knows that i am the one with the weapons (and the lincense for that). he's been in our home several times to explain security actions, how to prevent etc. etc. and he told me clearly that, in case i use my hand gun for self defense, i will face a huge problem! as our law for hunters and other weapon owners says: in case of an attack, you only are allowed to defend youself with same weapon you are attacked with! so, if if some stoned junky is attacking me with a knife, i may never use my hand gun! if i find a potatoe knife quick enough: ok, i am allowed to defend myself. i do not mind. i'm a woman, loving my family. my husband is a hunter too, he would do the same, but dislikes skydiving, my son completely refuses weapons (and skydiving ). he would prefer to discuss. thats my opinion on this thread. blueSkies dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #121 March 13, 2004 QuoteIt is a lot harder to make the head or thigh shots if you don’t shoot all the time. It is actually really hard to make these shots even if you do shoot all of the time. In a life or death situation (high stress), trained LEOs only hit the individual they are shooting at 1 out of every 5 shots with a pistol. That is shooting center mass. IOW we are lucky to hit the person at all much less try for his/her leg which will most likely not stop him/her from coming after you anyway. Anybody know Jerry Barnhart? He is an IPSC competition shooter. You can visit his site here http://www.jerrybarnhart.com/ He has won several championships in IPSC shooting. I don't think anyone on this board can out shoot him (I know for sure that I can't). Anyway, he came down and trained the SWAT team I am on for four days in December. Guess where he trains to shoot if placed in a threatening situation. Center of Mass or in the head if they have body armor. If he doesn't believe that he can make that shot in a stressful situation then I know that I can't. If you think that you can make a leg shot (actually 3-4 if you want to stop them) during a stressfull situation I would suggest you re-evaluate. Hollywood doesn't make a great training tool. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites imajacka55 0 #122 March 13, 2004 I heard a couple people say in there post that "if the guy had a knife I would have a bat". And hand to hand combat. The way I look at it is if someone comes into your house and you catch them even if he does not have a gun showing does not mean he does not have one on him If he came to rob you most likely he is going to want both hands to look through your things. So you are standing there you hesitate for what ever reason and you die. I look at it as it is you or him make the decision quick. So are you going to live or die Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #123 March 13, 2004 QuoteDON'T shoot them in the back I would be careful with this statement. A person can still be a threat to you even if he has his back turned to you. For example, the person is moving to a covered position to shoot you from or he may be shooting while running away. It is probably better to say don't shoot if you don't feel threatened by the person. If you feel threatened and there are no other feasible options then shoot. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #124 March 13, 2004 Good point! It seems as though, we can all discuss what we 'would do' in a given situation but, until we are placed in 'that' situation... We would all like to think that we would do the right thing. Let's hope, none of us are placed in a position where we have to take 'deadly' action but, if we do, we do it right. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pajarito 0 #125 March 13, 2004 My training didn't come from Hollywood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 5 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Aviatrr 0 #109 March 13, 2004 QuoteWhat would I do though? I'm going for center of mass for 2 and up just slightly for a 3rd, just like I've practiced over and over and over and over... Sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. That's the way I had always been trained and drilled. Two to the chest, one to the head. When I had to actually call upon my training, it stopped after the first two. Threat neutralized, no point in the third - especially considering where that round would have gone had I missed. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #110 March 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteYeah, I guess executing some midnight TP'ers would be a lil overboard. What if it is USED TP? That's easy...just rub their noses in it.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdD 1 #111 March 13, 2004 Can you really shoot someone just for being in your house even if they don't appear to be armed? Does someone deserve to die for stealing your TV set? Give me a break. Protecting your family is important, but you don't necessarily need to put one between his eyes to do that.Life is ez On the dz Every jumper's dream 3 rigs and an airstream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #112 March 13, 2004 Quotei could understand if you shoot to kill if your life is in danger.But else you could only shoot to warn a person that you will shoot at the person if the person dont stay were he/she is,and if they keep running then take a leg or arm.. take the arm or a leg... ha! funny opion!! how do you think someone is able just to aim at these points in the midnight, just waking up from sleeping, a woman with her child??? suddenly, there is a black shadow in your bedroom. you do not know if he's got a knife or a hand gun..? can you imagine the adrenaline output in such situation? i own several weapons in my home as a licensed hunter, they are locked ins special required safes (law rules). but, anyhow in that special case, i would use my hand gun. w ithout asking with a tremulous voice: who's there, what do you want?? why should i give any chance to a burglar to harm my family or myself? f. e., the problem with junkies is increasing rapidly in Germany. they just kill an 80 yrs old lady for 10 US$. i'm not John Wayne's wife, but will do anything to protect my folks and myself. if i have the possibility with my hand gun, i just would use it. this simply is depending on the actual situation. if he's running away, i surely would not shoot after him. but if such a guy is entering my home and my hand gun is available quick enough, i use it. no doubt. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chopchop 0 #113 March 13, 2004 Okay.. I am not really up on guns all that much. I was in the military, learned how to shoot an M-16 and all that but the whole idea of a firearm in my home never really seemed like a good idea to me. The biggest reason is accidental shootings. Now.. I know about gun safes and that you are supposed to lock your weapons up in there so kids don't get a hold of them and they aren't easily stolen and that makes perfect sense to me. Makes it okay to have a firearm in the home for use in hunting or range shooting. My question is.. if you are responsible in storing your gun, how the hell you gonna pull it on the robber to begin with? chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #114 March 13, 2004 I'm absolutely amazed at some of the responses here. "Shoot to wound" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you shoot, you shoot to neutralize the threat. Call it what you want - "shoot to stop" or "shoot to kill". For me, neutralizing the threat begins with two to the chest, with a follow up to the head if necessary(not to simply kill, but to NEUTRALIZE). If somebody is in my home uninvited and I feel they are a threat to myself or anybody else - or I simply don't know without a doubt that they are NOT a threat - I will neutralize the threat. If I am 100% sure that they are not a threat(chances are this will never happen in the given situation), I will not fire unless they become a threat. If you speak to them, do so in single words until there is no threat. There was a study done many years ago that showed that if a person is speaking, it will take them at least 3 words to spot, register, and react to a threat. That may be enough time for the perp to kill you. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #115 March 13, 2004 :::runs to get the fire extinguisher for all the flames about to erupt::: .witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #116 March 13, 2004 QuoteMy question is.. if you are responsible in storing your gun, how the hell you gonna pull it on the robber to begin with? I am very responsible with storing my guns. They are always in a safe. Except for the ones that are on my person. Usually two of 'em. No better storage place than that. At night, I have a handgun in a safe right next to my bed. You know the type....you put your hand on a handprint, enter your code(via buttons at the tips of your fingers), it pops open and the holster slides out. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #117 March 13, 2004 Hey, Douva! How you doin'? I recently took the CHL - Class and we were told... NO warning shots. When a sho tis fired into the air, you have now idea where that bullet is going to land. Especially in a populated area. You draw your weapon, be sure of your shot and shoot to kill. Don't try to scare them or wound them! They wouldn't give you a second chance. Like the man said earlier... DON'T shoot them in the back, it would look to authorities that he was trying to leave. As for the Winnebago 'incident', by shooting the driver, you risk your family's lives. Let 'em go and go back to the convenience store and call the cops. You have all the info on the Winnebago and your family... after all, they are yours! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #118 March 13, 2004 Quotehow do you think someone is able just to aim at these points in the midnight, just waking up from sleeping, a woman with her child??? suddenly, there is a black shadow in your bedroom. you do not know if he's got a knife or a hand gun..? can you imagine the adrenaline output in such situation? As a hunter you know the adrenalin,i has a hunter licens aswell,if you cant handel that kind of adrenalin then you perhaps shouldnt have guns...At least i see no reasson to go for the kill in first case,most time if you just wount a person,the person wont do more harm to you. Quotewhy should i give any chance to a burglar to harm my family or myself? NEVER,should you let any harm your family,NEVER.In that case i would kill anyone aswell,but only if i knew/assume that they would do any harm to us.. if the person just want mony to a fix or so,then i wouldnt borther to kill the person,but sure would try to stop him/her,and if taking em down by a shoot to an leg or arm i will do so,but never go for a kill(unless its my only/last option). Quotewill do anything to protect my folks and myself. if i have the possibility with my hand gun, i just would use it. and to that your no difference to anyone else.But please considder if its nessasery to kill,just like when your out hunting.. some animals You just dont shoot,its not the time or place..its called respect for living in this world,killing should be to survive(ie getting away,or getting some food,even as its to the freeze) just my oppinion,i dont think you can messure a lamp pictures to a life,but i agree that noone would survive to treat my family on their lives in a way that i felt unsafe,atleast not whith out me trying to take em out once and for all.A burgler dont make that treat to me(depending) Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougjumper 0 #119 March 13, 2004 Did someone say Rob Me? I dont think you want to Rob me..Dont have Shit. Not to mention if you did try..bottom line ... Taking you Out....so Better think long and hard before you do it. Knowing you Life is very well at Stake with me. Not gonna leave you around to get out of Jail to Rob someone else. Not to mention I dont want my Skydiving Friends paying Taxes on your Sorry Ass so you can live it up in Jail. Youre Going Down Sorry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #120 March 13, 2004 QuoteAs a hunter you know the adrenalin,i has a hunter licens aswell,if you cant handel that kind of adrenalin then you perhaps shouldnt have guns yup, you'r right, i should know how to handle a gun. believe me, i know how to handle it when i'm hunting let's say deer... (additionally, my weekly training in a big calibre hand gun club is something i do not want to miss!) ok, but this animal is not attacking me! except man eater, animals are not attacking !! i keep my finger straight in more than 60 percent of shooting "chances". i know if aiming is good, shoot will be successfull. if not.. ..i do not shoot! but this is deer hunting, my dear. QuoteAt least i see no reasson to go for the kill in first case,most time if you just wount a person,the person wont do more harm to you. oh man, no reason.... for what?? to let him be the first when is just entering my living room with any kind of weapon in his hand?? i never would like to face a situation to have killed someone! but that moment, when i'm absolutely sure of what this person is, i just shoot! without asking, without aiming the leg or the arm... as soon as a realize this is a burglar, this is a stranger, this is not my husband, not my son coming home from a drunken party!, i will never hesitate...i shoot just into this strange shadow. no willing to kill. only for defense purpose. i am living in a very safe quarter of a city with about 1 million inhabitants. our own "quarter sheriff" knows everybody around here. and he knows that i am the one with the weapons (and the lincense for that). he's been in our home several times to explain security actions, how to prevent etc. etc. and he told me clearly that, in case i use my hand gun for self defense, i will face a huge problem! as our law for hunters and other weapon owners says: in case of an attack, you only are allowed to defend youself with same weapon you are attacked with! so, if if some stoned junky is attacking me with a knife, i may never use my hand gun! if i find a potatoe knife quick enough: ok, i am allowed to defend myself. i do not mind. i'm a woman, loving my family. my husband is a hunter too, he would do the same, but dislikes skydiving, my son completely refuses weapons (and skydiving ). he would prefer to discuss. thats my opinion on this thread. blueSkies dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #121 March 13, 2004 QuoteIt is a lot harder to make the head or thigh shots if you don’t shoot all the time. It is actually really hard to make these shots even if you do shoot all of the time. In a life or death situation (high stress), trained LEOs only hit the individual they are shooting at 1 out of every 5 shots with a pistol. That is shooting center mass. IOW we are lucky to hit the person at all much less try for his/her leg which will most likely not stop him/her from coming after you anyway. Anybody know Jerry Barnhart? He is an IPSC competition shooter. You can visit his site here http://www.jerrybarnhart.com/ He has won several championships in IPSC shooting. I don't think anyone on this board can out shoot him (I know for sure that I can't). Anyway, he came down and trained the SWAT team I am on for four days in December. Guess where he trains to shoot if placed in a threatening situation. Center of Mass or in the head if they have body armor. If he doesn't believe that he can make that shot in a stressful situation then I know that I can't. If you think that you can make a leg shot (actually 3-4 if you want to stop them) during a stressfull situation I would suggest you re-evaluate. Hollywood doesn't make a great training tool. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imajacka55 0 #122 March 13, 2004 I heard a couple people say in there post that "if the guy had a knife I would have a bat". And hand to hand combat. The way I look at it is if someone comes into your house and you catch them even if he does not have a gun showing does not mean he does not have one on him If he came to rob you most likely he is going to want both hands to look through your things. So you are standing there you hesitate for what ever reason and you die. I look at it as it is you or him make the decision quick. So are you going to live or die Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #123 March 13, 2004 QuoteDON'T shoot them in the back I would be careful with this statement. A person can still be a threat to you even if he has his back turned to you. For example, the person is moving to a covered position to shoot you from or he may be shooting while running away. It is probably better to say don't shoot if you don't feel threatened by the person. If you feel threatened and there are no other feasible options then shoot. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #124 March 13, 2004 Good point! It seems as though, we can all discuss what we 'would do' in a given situation but, until we are placed in 'that' situation... We would all like to think that we would do the right thing. Let's hope, none of us are placed in a position where we have to take 'deadly' action but, if we do, we do it right. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #125 March 13, 2004 My training didn't come from Hollywood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
