Do you have a computer science degree?

[mailin 0]

If so, is it a BS or BA?

I'm having a hard time with the math requirements for the BS and am considering saving myself ALOT of headaches and frustrating and going for my BA, but not sure if its going to get me the type of work I'm looking for.

Jen

Arianna Frances

[PhreeZone 15]

BS... but my degree is worthless and its only 3 years old. 7 more years of paying off a worthless piece of paper.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mailin 0]

ugh - this is not giving me hope...

I've been going part-time for this degree for 6 years and will be going back full time to finish it up in September, but these math courses are killing me!

I hope I never find a job requiring frequent use of quadratics

If you don't mind my asking - what are you doing for work?

Jen

Arianna Frances

[PhreeZone 15]

Same exact thing that I was doing at the start of my Sophmore semester, at the same Company. Information Analyst. Basically... Look at Monster and see what they are asking for more, Certs or degrees in IT. Its certs about 70% and degrees about 40-50%.

Experience will beat out a degree almost every time.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Vertifly 0]

My undergrad is a BS in CS. The BS will help you considerably if you intend to further your education in Computer Science and/or some Information Systems/Programming type of curriculum.

Before aquiring my masters degree, I had to go back and complete Statistics at the 200 level - which was time consuming, if nothing more, during the last semester of grad school. Corny rule at good old Drexel.

Most employers aren't going to care if you have an arts or science degree. It is really more for the intent of furthering education.

Good luck making the decision!!!

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BS... but my degree is worthless and its only 3 years old. 7 more years of paying off a worthless piece of paper.

I can understand what you are getting at Phreezone, but disagree entirely. I build computer networks at a financial information company. This isn't the most prestigious position considering that I have a graduate degree. In fact, out of 30 dudes, I am the only one with such an education. There are a few with an undergrad and most are out of high school.

All of them have something different going for them. Some have degrees, some have certs, and some have nothing but a brain (which is often enough). All of them are valuable in their own way. Most of the people without degrees are intimidated enough by the few of us who are educated that they will always be their own enemy.

However, formal education provides us with more things than prestige in a crummy office environment. Hopefully, it has influenced us with the type of discipline needed to function at a particular level of intellect. Consistent practice of the things we were given at school will leave the certificate junkies in the dust any day of the week and years later.

In thirty years, I have a feeling that not many people in business will know what an A+, Cisco Admin, Sun Micro, MSCE, or IBM Certification is. Although, I can almost guarentee that they will know what a BS, BA, Masters, or Doctorate is.

[mailin 0]

Ok, that sounds good. I've been looking on monster for a few days - it looks like recruiters are asking for a degree, while actual employeers get more specific. Ideally I'd like to get a job programming, as thats what my degree has focused on (minus the math and phsyics), and I've done 'fairly' well at them.

When I graduate I do plan on enrolling in an MBA program though - I'm not a 'sit at a termal and spit out code all day' kind of gal

Jennifer

Arianna Frances

[Vertifly 0]

***'When I graduate I do plan on enrolling in an MBA program though - I'm not a 'sit at a termal and spit out code all day' kind of' well person...LOL***

I hear that. I don't want to stare at a terminal writing code for a living. That's for the MATRIX type people. I'd rather take apart a machine and put it back together any day. My job was the best in the world. Kinda like being an automechanic on multi-million-dollar computer systems. Nothing like doing white collar level work in a blue collar environment (I get to have some cake and eat it too!!!).

[Guest]

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Experience will beat out a degree almost every time.

Unless of course you are over 30, in which case you are S.O.L. no matter how much experience or how many certifications you have ...

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[nathaniel 0]

I completed a BS curriculum in CS in 2000, and I really urge you to take as much math as you can. I took as many math and statistics classes as I could finish in 4 years and I still wish I could have taken more, in retrospect. Math classes were definitely hardest for me, but it was well worth it. TAs were very helpful for me.

Abstract math has less direct application in the work I've done since school--purchasing consultant, systems analyst, and starting a security architecture job at the end of this month--than stat and good ole CS, but it's like the Matrix the way that math creeps in and drives everything. It might not come up in an interview -- most HR people wouldn't understand your transcript if they read it, they have broader issues to deal with anyway -- but it will help you shine once you start the work.

nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[indyz 1]

I started in a highly ranked CS program (BS program) about a year after the dot-com bubble burst. I got discouraged quickly because I was seeing many recent graduates and soon-to-be graduates who couldn't find a job because although they had good grades in a top flight program, they didn't have any of the real-world experience that employers wanted.

Now I'm in a BA program. It's certainly easier. Most of my professors have years of industry experience. The professors at UIUC were all incredibly smart but most of them had never worked outside of academia, which is not what I wanted to do. I miss some of the more math-related CS that I had in the BS program, but the BA program is giving me more real world experience and because it is a lighter workload I've been able to get a good job in the industry that is paying for certifications, giving me valuable on-the-job experience, and is a ton of fun to boot.

[champu 1]

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The professors at UIUC were all incredibly smart but most of them had never worked outside of academia...

Some of the CS professors here certainly get on my nerves, but a few I've had have offered some great insight.

While it's true that at big schools you're going to get more academia-oriented professors, we are also lucky to have pretty wide reaching job fairs where CompEs, EEs, CompSs, MechEs, and GenEs can all parade around for a couple hundred companies and usually find a job if their grades are pretty decent.

[Vertifly 0]

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Some of the CS professors here certainly get on my nerves, but a few I've had have offered some great insight.

Champu, this line JUST reminded me of something. About two years ago, maybe more, I saw my first Comp-Sci professor from Rutgers on the CASA at Crosskeys. I remember asking him, "Are you a college professor?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Do you teach Intro to Comp Sci at Rutgers?..." Then proceeded to tell him how much I enjoyed his class.

(Yeah right. It's one of those classes with 200 people and an instructor who couldn't possibly help you individually, but the 5 TA's would be glad to help.)

At the end of the conversation, I remember him saying, "..so, now you jump out of planes?" I took pleasure in telling him that I do many things to balance my life. Computers are a way of earning income and jumping out of planes is a way to spend that income.

[supafly 0]

I can only speak from my own experience as someone with a BS in CS pursuing their MBA. The math certainly helped develop problem solving and abstract thinking skills (both of which are usually important in software development), but in 4 years I have never once used vector calculus or differential equations directly. In fact, I would have one hell of a time trying to work out any thing of that sort now. If you're talking strictly about professional advancement, I wouldn't stress out too much about the details between BS or BA as long as your are getting the practical and critical thinking skills you need.

I don't know what your program is like, but mine left a serious gap between the classroom and real-world application. If at all possible I'd suggest some sort of internship or part-time CS-related job away from school to see how things translate to the private sector. Plus, as Phree said, you can't beat experience.

Good call on the MBA. I have a few months left until I get mine. If nothing else it has certainly opened my eyes to a lot of issues I hadn't thought about before. Never hurts the resume either. I have come across a number of companies where a huge breakdown exists between their tech and business guys (and gals).

Anyways, enough putting off my homework. Good luck.

Arizona Drive 4-Way VFS - www.DriveVFS.com

[nathaniel 0]

Also, about monster and online job postings in general: sometimes the people that post the jobs really have no idea what they're posting about, and sometimes the people that post the job are literally the people you'll be working with.

When it's not the people you'll be working with it's hard to judge exactly what they're looking for because sometimes they literally don't know wtf the requirements mean. I've seen listings requesting 10+ years of java experience but java was only released in 1995. Listings looking for 3+ years of winxp experience. etc.

nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[MarkM 0]

I doubt your average HR person even knows the difference between a BA or BS. Some look for certs, others will probably just want real world experience. I never studied CS in college and it hasn't hurt me any, I've done lead developer roles and am currently our lead 'nix admin.

But then I'm one of those "Matrix" geeks so I might not be your best role model.

Frankly to anyone thinking about a career in CS I'd recommend that they take up plumbing instead. The money is about the same, there's more job security and studies have shown that plumbers are happier in life than CS peeps.

[indyz 1]

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Some of the CS professors here certainly get on my nerves, but a few I've had have offered some great insight.

I absolutely agree. CS 273 was one of the most challenging classes that I've ever taken. It could have been pure hell but the professor also made it one of the most interesting classes I've ever taken, and I ended up doing rather well (very well compared to the rest of my grades when I was at UIUC, but that's another story).

BTW, do you happen to have any Large or XL Falling Illini shirts available? I'd like to get my hands on one.

[winsor 186]

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If so, is it a BS or BA?

I'm having a hard time with the math requirements for the BS and am considering saving myself ALOT of headaches and frustrating and going for my BA, but not sure if its going to get me the type of work I'm looking for.

Jen

My Master's is in Electrical and Computer Engineering - an MS. Undergrad is a BS in Chemical and Mechanical Engineering.

Having hired rather a few people for computer-related jobs, I advise strongly against taking any kind of a watered-down curriculum. There is a big difference between someone who achieves their results by means of brute force and someone whose solutions are elegant.

Familiarity with mathematics has often been a make-it-or-break-it issue in my career. I have been able to tune controllers to achieve "impossible" results because I could derive the appropriate control law on the spot and use either continuous or discrete transforms.

Even though people are spoiled by computers with fantastic speed and memory these days, there is still a difference between a hack and a kluge. Someone who is intimidated by the fundamentals is much more likely to author a kluge.

If you can make it through the math at all, you are better off going for the BS if you intend to work in a technical field. It is better to work for someone who knows the difference, and sometimes the degree path you seek says it all.


Blue skies,

Winsor