Vector new options

[OG-Tahiti 0]

Some of you might have seen it on UPT's facebook, they came up with a couple new options like a stowless Dbag, low drag risers and french hardware.

I am happy to see one of the main mfg with a stowless D-Bag as an option. This used to be something you would only see on euro rigs. I think Sunpath tried it for a while but found that you could only really fit one size canopy in these. Anyone has any feedback on the UPT stowless bag, maybe from the Expo?

Here are some pics of UPT's stowless d-bag

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[guppykf 0]

Is it magnets? Maybe a newbie question, but trying to figure out how they are able to close a canopy without stows.

THRIVING IN MY DASH!!

[OG-Tahiti 0]

They have the 2 locking stows. The lines are then S folded like the reserves line on the side of the dbag then a flap covers them up. Looks like UPT is using tuck tabs, or maybe it is magnets... Some guys in europe make the mPod that is all magnets, no locking stows, there is the lazy bag that is along the UPT design, locking stows and tuck tabs for the lines cover flap, then you have Basik's bag that has locking stows and a magnetic line pocket instead of tucktabs.

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[LouDiamond 1]

I am testing out the UPT stowless bag for wingsuit use. There just happens to be a group of jumpers from Australia at the DZ here who are also using a stowless bag that is similar. There are some differences between the two bags that make them different animals but fundamentally, they are the same. The UPT bag uses two traditional locking stows to keep the parachute in the bag. The lines are figure 8 rolled on the flap on front of the bag and then it is closed with 4 tuck tabs, 2 on the top and 2 on the sides of the bag.

It's a bit weird at first and most can actually go faster with a traditional D bag until they get the hang of it. I've noticed a few quirks with it that I am keeping an eye on to see if it's just because the bag is new or if it's perhaps me.I haven't drawn any conclusions yet as I am still jumping it and getting used to it.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[OG-Tahiti 0]

Thanks for the info Lou, can't wait until more people start putting jumps on those to see how the tuck tabs wear out.

I am in the process of ordering a Vector and am seriously looking into the stowless bag option. Do you know if this is something they also plan to sell separately as a retrofit or upgrade?

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[crazycableguy 0]

would that make line stretch happen faster? and then result in a harder opening?

maybe I cant picture the finished product...

[airtwardo 6]

Scott~ any significant observations thus far regarding opening characteristics?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[OG-Tahiti 0]

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would that make line stretch happen faster? and then result in a harder opening?

maybe I cant picture the finished product...

Getting to line stretch faster will not make for a harder opening. Means you will loose less altitude for the same opening shock if anything.

What does is an out of sequence deployment that can be caused by a bag dump, ie your canopy gets out of the bag before line stretch. On the UPT/Basik design they still have classic locking stows, so no real difference in bag dump chances.

At least that's how I understand the role of the dbag and line stows...

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[LouDiamond 1]

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Scott~ any significant observations thus far regarding opening characteristics?

I hesitate to comment at this point because I want to put more jumps on it before I draw any conclusions. The UPT bag is different from my Jump Shack Birdman specific D bag so my typical pack job had to be modified slightly to fit in the UPT bag. Right now, any anomalies I have encountered I am chalking up to being my fault. Once I have more jumps on the bag and am used to packing it, I think I will be able to give a more precise description of it's performance/characteristics.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[OG-Tahiti 0]

Another thing I really like about the stow pocket idea is that I always found rather sketchy how you need to twist around the dbag into the container before closing it, and how the stowing loop ends just dangle around and are just begging to get stuck somewhere in your risers, leftover lines and what not. See the mess I'm talking about? :)

Maybe it's just cause I have only 70 jumps and a couple months in the sport, but I'm sure it could be a whole lot more tidy in there and that stowing pouch sure does the trick :)

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[Sangi 0]

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I think Sunpath tried it for a while but found that you could only really fit one size canopy in these.

So there's no point in getting this dbag unless you chose to fly a super small high performance canopy forever (or are planning on downsizing in the future)?

What's this "french hardware" thingy?

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[OG-Tahiti 0]

I guess it just depends on where you are at and what your plans are. I for one plan to stick to a 150-135 once I get there for quite some time. I am more interested in wing suit flying and want something as docile as can be opening up over me.

Again I don't have more info on UPT's bag but for example Basik's bags can fit 2-3 different sizes much like regular bags.

What I understood is that too big a canopy in one of those could put more stress on the tuck tabs, too small of a canopy and the tuck tabs might be on the loose side.

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[virgin-burner 1]

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I think Sunpath tried it for a while but found that you could only really fit one size canopy in these.

So there's no point in getting this dbag unless you chose to fly a super small high performance canopy forever (or are planning on downsizing in the future)?

What's this "french hardware" thingy?

there's a recent thread on french hardware..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Skydivesg 6]

The bag is as Scott said, two locking stows and then figure 8 on a flap that closes with 4 tuck tabs.

The design is similar to the Berger bag. The bag used by UPT is actually designed by Scott Roberts. He has been working on it for a couple of years.

My son has been using one for more than a year on either his Velo 96 or Velo 103.

I have been using one for about 100 jumps on a Katana 120. 50 of those jumps are shooting tandem video.

The openings are incredibely smooth and I have not had an off heading opening like I somtimes do on my other K-120. The canopy has opened on heading 100% of the time. I am in the process of getting a second one.

I also use packers who are not extremely experienced (one is only 17 and has one tandem jump and just started packing last summer.
I showed her twice watched her once and that was it.
I used house packers in Deland while at the Expo.

This bag is awesome and gives me the best openings I've had in many years. And as far as I know it comes in most sizes not just the smaller canopies.

You can order it as an option on a new vector or buy it seperately.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[OG-Tahiti 0]

Thanks for all the details, I'm sold on getting one on my new Vector!

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[pchapman 261]

Looks nice but I can't quite interpret the photos.
What is the white thing? Some sort of buffer strip at the 'mouth' where the lines come out of the pouch?

(I use a home made bag mod, with 2 locking stows plus a line pouch. Without getting into details, it has a couple fixed tabs on the bag and a small strip of velcro to open the pouch a bit. The lines S fold in like on a reserve freebag rather than figure eighting like on a tail pocket. It's been working great for 600 jumps. No noticeable difference in openings when I went to it -- although I expect any tendency to spin the bag up to be lower.)

I do wonder what kind of friction wear there is on lines with bags like these, as the lines are pulled out between the layers of fabric or past each other.

But, who knows, there may well a similar amount with regular elastics too. (Remember how elastics on hip rings - to hold down t-shirts in sitfly - were wearing harness webbing.)

[superstu 0]

I'm one of Scott Robert's teammates and have been jumping different versions of this bag for a while now, but have over 2000 jumps on other bags kind of like it. absolutely love the bag, taken it terminal, video, hop n pops, what ever and where it's a great bag. it does take a little time to get used to it but i love it. the bag and the risers are actually part of UPT's new "swoop package" that customers can now order.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[OG-Tahiti 0]

2 new pictures from UPT's Facebook showing how the lines are stowed in the pocket and how it folds up. Nice!
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs428.snc3/24703_372553806148_64761516148_3843734_3671645_n.jpg
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs428.snc3/24703_372553811148_64761516148_3843735_2130481_n.jpg

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[awagnon 0]

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Some of you might have seen it on UPT's facebook, they came up with a couple new options like a stowless Dbag, low drag risers and french hardware.

One other new "option". I thought I saw on their website that all new SkyHook rigs were shipping with Spectra reserve ripcords which they claim is stronger than the metal cords. Anyone have any experience with these?

Alton

"Luck favors the prepared."

[antonija 0]

Spectra does have higher specified strength than steel wire but have you heard of anyone having torn his steel wire while pulling silver?

The spectra ripcord UPT uses has some elastic inside. That means if your handle is dislodged it will pull it closer to your harness (with steel wire it just dangles there).

I have it on my rig but I've never used it.

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[skydiverek 55]

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Spectra does have higher specified strength than steel wire but have you heard of anyone having torn his steel wire while pulling silver?

The spectra ripcord UPT uses has some elastic inside. That means if your handle is dislodged it will pull it closer to your harness (with steel wire it just dangles there).

I have it on my rig but I've never used it.

See this movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSVRSIicQDk&fmt=18

[Skydivesg 6]

The Spectra cord is roughly a 1000 lb strength vs approximately 700 lb with ripcord cable.

The main thing it does is eliminate the swaging of the pin onto the cable and the swaging of the ball on the end by the ripcord. Both of these components create fail points.

I remember someone in the eighties who's swagged ball came off during his pull and was shocked to see his ripcord in his hand with no cable. He finished his pull using just the cable.

You can get a standard D-handle or a soft reserve handle (my preference). The Spectra cord is attached to each using a larks head knot.

The closing pin is a solid forged pin and the Spectra cord is once again attached using a larks head knot.

This allows the Spectra cord to be replaced without replacing the reserve pin or handle.

The short bungee is actually placed inside the spectra cord via fingertrapping. And as the above poster pointed out it keeps the handle right near the end of the ripcord housing if it becomes dislodged.

When you pull on the handle you elongate the spectra cord and thus the bungee material, making the pull force quite manageable.

The sytem is very sensible when you understand everything about it.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[LouDiamond 1]

I have 2 of theses D bags now as I routinely use 2 rigs and it made sense to use the stowless bag as much as possible. Over the Easter boogie I made roughly 40 jumps on the bag in addition to the previous jumps I have on the bag. The bag has grown on me and I am liking it but there are some things that I think people should be aware of as there are some differences, in my opinion, that some people may like or dislike.

There is a noticeable decrease in the time it takes to get to line stretch. Where you can sometimes feel the lines coming out of each rubber band stow during the deployment process, the stowless bag reaches full line stretch very quickly. The result is it has a different "feel" to the opening process. With that quicker opening, I find there to be a bit more snatch force which can contribute to inadvertent leaning in the harness sometimes, this can cause slight turns after canopy inflation. This has me now being even more aware of my body position during deployment and staying as motionless in the harness as possible during deployment.

Packing. It might just be me, but I was having some funky openings in the beginning, I attributed this to my having to change my packing style. Since then and having a packer pack for me, I have realized that it was indeed partially my pack jobs that were to blame for some of those funky openings. Once I learned to pack for the bag and remain square in the harness during deployment, I had some very nice on heading openings. I have also learned that doing double wraps on the locking stows can decrease the amount of that felt snatch force on opening. So I would say that when transitioning to this stowless bag, be aware that your pack jobs and stowing of the lines may bear a good deal of the blame for the funky openings you might have in the beginning until you get used to the bag.

Before where I was somewhat skeptical, now I am starting to like the stowless bag more. I am not completely sold on it yet but I like it enough to continue using it. Like it's many predecessors and variations that are out there, I am curious to see how the long term performance is once the bag and tuck tabs are well broken in.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[OG-Tahiti 0]

When you say learned to pack for the bag, what exactly did you change in your regular pack job to make it a nicer opening in the stowless bag? Is it just doubling the locking stows?

Thanks for all that feeedback

"Common sense is not so common" - Voltaire
Dudeist Skydiver #9

[LouDiamond 1]

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When you say learned to pack for the bag, what exactly did you change in your regular pack job to make it a nicer opening in the stowless bag? Is it just doubling the locking stows?

Thanks for all that feeedback

I have a wingsuit specific D bag that fits in my container flush when the grommet/bridle is up. This means the dimensions of the bag are wider and not as deep. The Stowless bag is made to fit in the UPT container and as such is built in a way that is narrower and taller than I am accustomed to. This required me to change my canopy width which made it bulkier when folded and was more prone to getting stuff packed in some cases to get it all in the bag. It was just the inevitable adjustments one has to make when they use a new piece of gear.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING