ZigZagMarquis 8 #1 October 19, 2009 Any of y'all uber-smart master riggers out there and/or any of y'all that have worked for a mfgr have any idea how much ZP (yardage) it takes to make a canopy? Obviously, the bigger or smaller the canopy is or the design (rectangular vs. elliptical, cross-braced, etc.), the more or less raw material it will take, but is there any rule of thumb... i.e. "X" yardage of raw material per sq ft of finished canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antonija 0 #2 October 19, 2009 QuoteAny of y'all uber-smart master riggers out there and/or any of y'all that have worked for a mfgr have any idea how much ZP (yardage) it takes to make a canopy? This should make all riggers flock to this thread just to give you an answer. What could possibly go wrong?I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #3 October 19, 2009 For a 150, it seems like the top and bottom skins are 150 sq ft each, and the ribs and end panels are probably more than 150 sq ft., maybe 175? So add in seam allowance, and overage for laying out the patterns and such, so maybe 550 sq ft? 600? I'm willing to bet Brian Germain knows the answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #4 October 19, 2009 Quote For a 150, it seems like the top and bottom skins are 150 sq ft each, and the ribs and end panels are probably more than 150 sq ft., maybe 175? So add in seam allowance, and overage for laying out the patterns and such, so maybe 550 sq ft? 600? I'm willing to bet Brian Germain knows the answer. I doesn't come in pre-cut widths though, and there is a lot of 'waste' in the form of material cut from the bat that won't fit anywhere....and don't forget about the cells (7-9-21-27) & slider. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #5 October 19, 2009 Either 350 yards or 11 yards, I can't remember witch.Sparky My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #6 October 20, 2009 Quote Either 350 yards or 11 yards, I can't remember witch.Sparky Which by Para Gear prices (apx $13.50 a yard) for ZP... a new canopy would start at somewhere between $4725 and $148.50... ... which, um, I guess they do... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #7 October 20, 2009 If you are thinking of building your own canopy might I suggest? Buy 2 or 3 yards of material, cut it into 2 foot by 2 foot squares. Start sewing them together and keep at it until you have your own little hair ball made of ZP. Shouldn’t take too long. They throw the shit in the trash, by then the urge will have gone away.Sparky My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #8 October 20, 2009 Make my own canopy!!??! Have you gone off your rocker there, Sparky?? No, I was just trying to cyper out the amount of $$ just in raw materials, and I mean just the ZP, included in the price of a canopy. Oh and I figured (wondered) if mfgr's pay somewhat less or a lot less for ZP than one does by the yard from Para Gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BKR 0 #9 October 20, 2009 Manufacturers pay a lot less, hopefully.Jérôme Bunker Basik Air Concept www.basik.fr http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Luc-France/BASIK-AIR-CONCEPT/172133350468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #10 October 21, 2009 Quote Oh and I figured (wondered) if mfgr's pay somewhat less or a lot less for ZP than one does by the yard from Para Gear. *** No, they pay the same. Sparky My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 October 21, 2009 Quote Quote Oh and I figured (wondered) if mfgr's pay somewhat less or a lot less for ZP than one does by the yard from Para Gear. *** No, they pay the same. Sparky .............................................................................................. Para-Gear does offer bulk discounts, but only the largest of canopy manufactures buy their fabric - by the bolt - directly from fabric brokers. Back in the 1980s, I remember Para-Flite bragging that they had first refusal on F-111 fabric. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #12 October 21, 2009 Quote If you are thinking of building your own canopy might I suggest? Buy 2 or 3 yards of material, cut it into 2 foot by 2 foot squares. Start sewing them together and keep at it until you have your own little hair ball made of ZP. Shouldn’t take too long. They throw the shit in the trash, by then the urge will have gone away.Sparky ............................................................................................ That reminds me of sewing my own kit parachutes back in the 1980s. Lone Star/Para Kit claimed that you should be able to sew your own parachute in 40 hours. Hah! I probably spent 40 hours reading the manual! I did not save any time or money, but did accomplish my primary goal which was to satisfy my curiosity about how canopies are made. In conclusion, sewing canopies requires far more time and patience than the average skydiver has. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #13 October 21, 2009 A fast and easy calculation would be the following for a 150 square feet 9 cell canopy for instance: 1) top skin = 150 sq.f 2) bottom skin = 150 sq.f 3) ribs : (9 x 2) + 1 = 19 ribs, 19 ribs x (8 x 1.5) = 228 sq.f subtotal = 528 sq.f Total = 528 sq.f + 20% = 634 sq.f (note: 20 % for the seams + nose + stabilizers) For other dimensions and number of cells, adjust accordindlyLearn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,063 #14 October 21, 2009 Hi Andre', Your calculations don't work. 1. You have to buy the bolt of materials in the width that they come in. Therefore, you will be buying the length of the top skin & the length of the bottom skin in bolt width. As bolt width varies by mfr & product(s) you might need nearly twice your calcs for the top & bottom skins. This is the real reason why Para-Flite came out with their cross-span mfg method; only to save on material waste. 2. You can nest the ribs because they taper; put one as you see it & the other upside-down, as close as possible. Without knowing some sizes for Zig-Zag it it hard to get to an accurate figure. For generalizing, your numbers are 'in the ball-park.' Been there, done it. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #15 October 22, 2009 QuoteWithout knowing some sizes for Zig-Zag it it hard to get to an accurate figure. Jerry, That’s why I told him 350 yards or 11 yards. Too many variables to tell without a lot more details. And even then it would be tough until you make your working patterns and do a layout with the bold size you will be working with. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #16 October 22, 2009 Quote Quote Without knowing some sizes for Zig-Zag it it hard to get to an accurate figure. Jerry, That’s why I told him 350 yards or 11 yards. Too many variables to tell without a lot more details. And even then it would be tough until you make your working patterns and do a layout with the bold size you will be working with. Sparky And that's why I said... Quote ...Obviously, the bigger or smaller the canopy is or the design (rectangular vs. elliptical, cross-braced, etc.), the more or less raw material it will take... I understand though, its tough sometimes to read / listen and understand though before spouting off... I suffer from the same handicap. Anyway, I was just wondering if there was a rule of thumb. Sounds like there is not. I suppose its a "black art" only known to mfgr's... ... kinda like coming up with pack-volume. Would some kindly moderator please lock this thread? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,063 #17 October 22, 2009 Hi Zig, Keep coming with these 'ideas' of yours; they challenge us old farts & they provide learning for the newer guys/gals ( almost made a MAJOR mistake there ). JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #18 October 22, 2009 Quote1) top skin = 150 sq.f 2) bottom skin = 150 sq.f 3) ribs : (9 x 2) + 1 = 19 ribs, 19 ribs x (8 x 1.5) = 228 sq.f I find it interesting that the ribs require 150% more material than the top or bottom skin. I tend to think that the ribs are less than the outside surface. I wouldn't have guessed this opposite effect, but never sat down and ran the numbers like that before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #19 October 22, 2009 Yeah, yeah, will do. Now back to your rocking-chair and warm milk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mcordell 2 #20 October 22, 2009 You are all making this WAY more complicated than it has to be. Take your already built canopy, get a seam ripper, take it all apart, measure. figure in a little extra to be safe. Now you have your answer! www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
