law school...

[Hazarrd 1]

I'm in the process of looking for law schools and studying for the LSAT. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions regarding the LSAT. Did you take a course or just do the reading on your own? If you did take a course, did you find it useful? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Also...for those currently in law school...do you find time on the weekends to still make some jumps? (just answer yes to that question)

.-.

[NWFlyer 2]

I took the LSAT and the GMAT at the same time (was trying to decide whether to go for law school, the MBA, or both - ended up going with the MBA). At any rate, I got in the 96th percentile on both tests with just self-study. I think what you have to look at is how good are you at standardized tests in general, and are you self-disciplined enough to drill yourself?

My opinion is that what a class will get you that a book won't is just structure. If you can get yourself to sit down and review the book and take practice tests you'll probably do just as well for a fraction of the price.

But definitely do some sort of prep. There's question types on the LSAT that are very different from any standardized test questions you've seen (and I'm just guessing but the last time you took one was probably in high school, so brushing up on those test-taking techniques in general will be valuable). Prep will help you get really comfortable with how to approach those questions.

Edited to add: while I didn't go to law school, I think in any graduate program, you can prioritize the things that are important to you. Sure you'll have crunch times, but you'll make time for jumping if it's important to you. My sense was (from the one law school class I did take) that the law students could (if they chose) do the "slack and cram" approach since most of their grades were based on a single final, where the business school students had more of a steady workload without the really intense end-of-term periods.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Nightingale 0]

due to a time issue, I took the LSAT cold. I got a 157.

Take a class if you can. I got a lot of the details about the classes from friends after the fact. Some of the strategies you'll learn there probably would've gotten me another 5-10 points.

And yes, I still have time to jump, except during midterms and finals.

[Hazarrd 1]

157 cold. thats really impressive...

thats funny that you mention you were thinking about an MBA program at the same time. im facing a similiar situation. i have the chance to stay here an extra year and complete my MBA. i'm actually considering doing that and then going on to law school, im not so sure. the good thing is I won't need to apply to grad school here, it's an automatic acceptance into the program (pending GPA and other things).

thanks for the advice...

.-.

[NWFlyer 2]

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thats funny that you mention you were thinking about an MBA program at the same time. im facing a similiar situation. i have the chance to stay here an extra year and complete my MBA. i'm actually considering doing that and then going on to law school, im not so sure. the good thing is I won't need to apply to grad school here, it's an automatic acceptance into the program (pending GPA and other things).

I'm pretty skeptical about programs where people go straight through for an MBA. I'd advise getting some work experience before you consider an MBA. My b-school had a 3/2 program (3 years undergrad, 2 years business and you graduated with both a BA and an MBA) and there were only two students in it. One was a "non-traditional" student who had several years of military experience before he started college, so I think he got plenty out of the program and had plenty to contribute. The other came straight through and I think he probably didn't get as much out of the program (or have as much to offer), even though he was really bright. To my mind, one of the biggest learning opportunities in an MBA program is being able to apply the tools you're learning to things you've seen and experienced in the working world. Without full-time work experience, that's a lot more difficult. Not impossible, but more difficult.

But it just depends on what your goals are, I suppose.

[Jib 0]

I did the same thing: GMAT/LSAT after my jr year in college.
Do as many practice questions as you can! The who ends up sitting next to whom stuff sux. I got my lowest score in it after missing about one each in the other sections. Also, make sure you really, really, really want to be a lawyer. There are a lot of unhappy lawyers.
As for law school, once you understand the game, you can have a lot of fun.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[Superman32 0]

I recently took Kaplan class for the MCATs.
The MCAT requires you to know an impossible amount of info. and the ability to analyze and use all that info.
I don't think that the classes really helps with either aspect of the test. It gives you some test taking tricks and practice testes. If you can get your hands on some books and tests you'll be just as good as those that take the class, but much richer *jump money*The classes are good if you need the discipline to sit and study every day

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[Adrock 0]

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To my mind, one of the biggest learning opportunities in an MBA program is being able to apply the tools you're learning to things you've seen and experienced in the working world. Without full-time work experience, that's a lot more difficult. Not impossible, but more difficult.

True, I see your point, but there are other ways to get this same experience. I started my MBA program immediately after college, with not a lot of experience, but I still believe that I learned from it. IMO, hearing examples from others in the class was good for me. Our program was about half "traditional" students and half with much more work experience.

Good luck on the LSAT if you choose to take it, Hazarrd. I just bought one of those cram books when I took the GMAT, but I had friends who did the whole test prep class thing.

[Jib 0]

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I'm pretty skeptical about programs where people go straight through for an MBA. I'd advise getting some work experience before you consider an MBA.

I thought the better programs almost required a few years of work experience because of the networks and real world experiences brought to the classroom.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[Nightingale 0]

I know Loyola and USC and CUSF here in southern california don't require previous work experience, just a good gpa and test score.

Chapman offers the MBA/JD option. I've already got a master's, and find business extraordinarily boring (not the actual running of a business, but all that theory!), so I elected to just go for the JD. Business law holds no interest for me whatsoever, so I didn't think an MBA would do me much good. I'm looking into family law, elder law, or school law.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I thought the better programs almost required a few years of work experience because of the networks and real world experiences brought to the classroom.

That's true. It will be very rare that you can get into a "top 20" school without some work experience. Average is 4-5 years. I had 3 and I was on the very young edge of my class. The folks without work experience tended to be either the 3/2 students (and they were pretty rare) or joint degree (JD/MBA or MD/MBA) students.

Even though I'm proud of the fact that I went to a top-10 school and very loyal to my program, I tend not to get too snotty about the whole thing - like I said, it really depends on your goals. If people ask me "how important is it to go to one of the best programs?" I always say, "well, what do you want to get out of it?"

If you just want to get ahead in your current job or at your current organization, it's less critical. If you just want to learn the stuff and apply it, you're going to be able to get a good quality education at a lot more programs than the top-tier ones.

But, if you want the massive recruiting opportunities and the big-bucks prestige firms (investment banks, consumer products companies, consulting firms) knocking down your door then yeah, you've got to go to a top tier school. Rankings are bullshit but rankings matter in that game. Even being in the bottom half of the top ten rather than the top half of the top ten will matter in terms of what companies recruit, how much they pay, and how deep into the class they will recruit.

At the end of the day, though, you still have to get the job done. While a top-tier MBA will open more doors for you and maybe even get you some slack, you've still got to perform and where you got your degree probably matters less the more post-MBA experience you get. The alumni networks are great, but again, you've got to be able to deliver.

Flip side is, a few years out, a lot of my classmates are finding themselves disillusioned with the MBA dream or taking it in a direction they never thought they'd take it. Some are still working for the prestige firms they went to right out of the program, others, like me, have burnt out on that particular game and are moving, either slowly or radically, in different directions.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[mx757 4]

we have too many lawyers and not enough engineers...in this country...

[Hazarrd 1]

thanks for all of the input so far...except for the previous one. i appreciate it. if anyone else has anything to add, please do so.

.-.

[larsrulz 0]

I did the same as Nightingale and took the LSAT cold. Picked up a review book, but probably spent a total of a half hour reviewing it. But I highly recommend at least getting a book and actually studying. The questions are quite unique imo, and I actually believe it to be a valid test, as opposed to say the SAT, ACT, GRE, and GMAT, which are the only other standardized tests I have taken. I test extremely well, so did well on the LSAT anyway, but I bet I could have improved my score a couple points with just a few hours of studying. If you are really serious about law school and want to end up at a big law firm, than a prestigeous law school is the way to go! Best way to get into those is good GPA and good LSAT. So spend the time; it'll be worth it!

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[bertusgeert 1]

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thanks for all of the input so far...except for the previous one. i appreciate it. if anyone else has anything to add, please do so.

Dude.... C'mon....why do you wanna be a lawyer...
For that matter, why do you wanna study. You are wasting your life away man, college is a drain of money while you could be working making big bucks.

Some people just dont see reality.....Geeeeesss...

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[HeatherB 0]

Find a company that will pay for your schooling, get a job there, and then go back to school.

I wouldn't be going for my MBA right now if I had to pay for it.

[lawrocket 3]

1. First thought
I'd recommend a course. Just like anything, you need to prepare for it.

I use this example often. Anyone can do a pushup. Pretty easy. But if I say, "Do a hundred pushups" that requires preparation.

People can take the LSAT cold and do just fine. When I took my first practice test I got a 152. I ended up with a 161 on the LSAT, I think. Not stellar, but not bad. It helped.

2. Second thought

Law school sucks. Get ready for that suckiness.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[scottbre 0]

Make sure that you definately want to be a lawyer. Because unless you've just got money that you don't know what to do with, you'll finish law school realizing you don't want to be a lawyer, and will have huge amounts of student loans to pay off and no sure way to do that.

If you're thinking about doing it just because it sounds cool to have the degree, or because your not ready to leave college yet (both partial reasons for why I went to law school), save you're money. If you aren't ready for the real world yet, pick up another bachelors with another 2 years of college.

Of course if you truly want to be a lawyer, go for it. But realize that it is a completely different experience that college has been up to this point. You won't be aiming for a specific letter grade, but to be as close to the top of the class as you can. Plus you'll probably do more reading (and drinking) than you ever have before in your life.

I spent a semester in law school, and halfway through it, I realized that while I kind of enjoyed the academic aspect of it, the financial hole that it was putting me into wasn't worth it, plus the majority of law students are self-serving, shallow people. I doubled my existing student loans that first semester and am glad that I realized I didn't want to do it, before I was any further in.

If you decide on law school, do lots of research and be super prepared before your first day of class. I read "primer" books on each area of law that I had a class in [civil procedure, torts, legal writing, contracts, etc.], and it made the classes infinitely easier, because all the concepts that the professor introduced, in as convoluted a way as possible, I had already gotten the basic gist of before school had even started.

Good Luck

"Your mother's full of stupidjuice!"
My Art Project

[NWFlyer 2]

Nice point to emphasize. I took three years off between college and grad school and it really helped crystallize what I wanted to do (and heck, even now at 34 I'm not quite sure what I want to be when I grow up, but I got a degree that gave me a lot of options).

During those three years I saw a lot of friends go straight through to grad school (mostly law school) or take a year off and go running back because they missed the academic life. Sure, the "real world" can be challenging at times, but I wouldn't trade that three years of perspective for anything.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[chuckbrown 0]

Just studied from the book w/o a class. Don't remember what I got (it was 14 years ago), but I'm a lawyer, so it worked out. Good luck.

[scottbre 0]

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Just studied from the book w/o a class. Don't remember what I got (it was 14 years ago), but I'm a lawyer, so it worked out. Good luck.

Everyone who makes it through law school, even if they end up last in the class is a lawyer so that's not saying much. Are you a good lawyer? Cause that's what's really important.

"Your mother's full of stupidjuice!"
My Art Project

[brierebecca 0]

I'd definitely agree with the majority of people here when they say to TAKE A CLASS! I took Kaplan, just went to the classes and the practice tests (which are really helpful), and didn't do any real work outside the class. My beginning score was a 157, and I ended up with a 168 on the LSAT. Take the course. Kaplan was the best thousand dollars I've ever spent.

Although some people on this thread have said to make sure that you really want to be a lawyer before you go to law school, I would really also consider the fact that a J.D. is no longer a degree you get just to become a lawyer. It is amazingly useful in many other respects, especially in the business world. I'm getting a law degree not to practice law, but to deal art.

As for time it takes away from jumping, it kinda depends. If you want to be in the top 10% of your class, plan on spending your weekends in the library. If you're like me and just want to be in the top half, you'll have plenty of time to jump on the weekends. The curve is brutal in most schools, but only if you want to make the top 20%. For my career goal, the focus will be on another degree, so it's not such a big deal if I don't make dean's list (which is around 85 usually) I have a decent GPA and I don't study a lot. In fact, the only time it's taken away from jumping has been in the few weeks before finals. I'd estimate that I did close to 150 jumps during my first semester (first year is the hardest), and I just joined a freefly team for the coming year.

In any case, best of luck if you do decide to apply to law school.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[lawrocket 3]

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good lawyer

That's an oxymoron.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[chuckbrown 0]

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Are you a good lawyer? Cause that's what's really important.

No not every one who graduates law school is a "lawyer." All states require "lawyers" to pass the bar exam, after which you're a "lawyer." I've worked as a lawyer for the 10 years since law school & have won multi-million dollar jury verdicts. What have you done?

Oh, and by the way, your ability to pass the LSAT means nothing when it comes to being a lawyer. You can be the smartest person on earth and still be a lousy lawyer.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

Me like Pie.

Mmmm...Pie.

Pie good.

When post again, bring Pie.