icon risers and brake lines wear

[Mr.B 0]

Hi all

Does any icon owner or rigger noticed unusualy high brake line wear on their rig ? I'm asking since with my gear, lower part of the brake lines (about 1 inch below cat's eye) became very fuzzy, despite that only 100 jumps were made on the line set. First I thought, that I must have been doing something wrong with my gear - specifically while stowing excess of brake lines (although I followed a method described in icon manual), but recently I've seen another icon rig (also with spectra lined Pilot - just like in my case) that has the same signs of high wear on brake lines. The metal guide rings look fine on both rigs, and I (and my rigger) don't have a clear idea about what causes these damages - I have only some suspicions (like excess line keepers being a bit too high on the back of the riser, or the same keepers having quite sharp edges compared to the ones I see on other rigs). Due to a positions on the line where the wear "starts" (below cat's eye) I think, that it happens during unstowing brakes under open canopy. I've looked through some gear of other jumpers around (especially those, with spectra lines - so I could directly compare the state of their lines with mine) and I don't see such dramatic wear, even on rigs where the lines have a couple of hundred jumps more on them, than I have on mine.

Maybe some other owners or riggers dealing with icons (or even other riser designs) noticed similar thing, and can shed some light on this issue?
Thanks in advance!

cheers,
Bart

[captain_stan 0]

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I've seen another icon rig (also with spectra lined Pilot - just like in my case) that has the same signs of high wear on brake lines.

I've also seen similar deterioration of spectra line on an Aerodyne canopy that was rigged to a different mfr's H/C. This problem may be more with the main canopy's line material or construction than with the design of the H/C.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Sure and it takes a $5 to get a lower brake lines replaced....

[AndyMan 7]

In addition to the metal guide ring, be sure to take a close look at the fabric loop that holds the ring in place. I've seen rigs where small burrs (caused by jumpers melting excess thread with a cigarette lighter) wears against the lines.

I have not seen anything resembling premature wear on either my heavily used Icon or other Aerodyne canopies. I doubt this is a systematic problem - more likely a problem that's local to your rig.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[lilchief 0]

I had the similar issue on my I6 w/Pilot 210 DOM 2005.

I noticed that under the retainer loops, the left overs from sewing the toggle attachments where a little sharp. On one side it was more prominent then on the other side, hence the wear was more significant on the "sharpest" side.

I thought until now that it was only an issue with my rig, but I've also seen it on other Icon's. maybe someone else has some 2 cents on this issue?

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[captain_stan 0]

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I have not seen anything resembling premature wear on either my heavily used Icon or other Aerodyne canopies.

I haven't seen this condition on an Aerodyne canopy that I have owned either. But several years ago I saw this same mfr's fresh reline of one of their mains that resulted in a huge amount of fuzz at all the fingertrapped joints after a minimal number of jumps. I'd never seen anything like it. This spectra line in question had a lighter coating than what I typically see on a sport main.

Without being able to inspect this rig, there are certainly several possible causes.I hope that Mr. B will share his findings with us.

[Mr.B 0]

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In addition to the metal guide ring, be sure to take a close look at the fabric loop that holds the ring in place.

It looks flawless. Like I said, to me it looks like the wear is made during unstowing the brakes. The line is most damaged in the middle part (between cat's eye and toggle handle) - a sector that "brushes" the riser elements on a longest distance when unstowing a brake. If the reason would be the guide ring or it's holding loop, than I guess the max. wear area would be a bit higher on the brake line (where it has most frequent contact with the ring).

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I doubt this is a systematic problem - more likely a problem that's local to your rig.

I also somehow doubt it - I'm sure that if it had been systematic, someone would mention it here much earlier than me I just thought, that maybe someone else had the same problem, and already know all the answers

Quote

I had the similar issue on my I6 w/Pilot 210 DOM 2005.

I noticed that under the retainer loops, the left overs from sewing the toggle attachments where a little sharp. On one side it was more prominent then on the other side, hence the wear was more significant on the "sharpest" side.

Yeah - I see the same thing on my friends Icon I4 (if I remember correctly it's DOM is also around 2005/6), but there is nothing like it on my rig (manufactured in 2008).


cheers,
Bart

[humbled1 0]

I have an Icon I5 that was made in 05 that I purchased in excellent shape last summer. It had a smart 160 reserve but no main. I got a Sabre1 170 from a friend, but it needed a new line set. I ordered one from PD thru Square1. I have since put about 140 jumps on it. Since about 40 jumps I noticed my lower brake lines were a little fuzzy, at this point they are so fuzzy I am going to have them replaced, they dont look frayed or unsafe, just annoying really. IMO, this thread indicates the problem is with the risers/container. I do most of my own packing and even when I dont I am very careful about stowing my brakes and excess line.

edit: after taking a good look as to where the fuzzy portion is (about a 4 inch section around the middle of the lower brake line) I think it is from the "sharp" edges of the keepers for the excess brake line. I am going to have my lower brake lines replaced soon and see if my rigger can modify/replace the keepers.

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

[Joellercoaster 6]

I think it might be the Aerodyne Spectra lines, rather than the container necessarily. I had it happen to both my Pilots (housed in the same Icon), and on the second one a rigger replaced the lower brake lines with Spectra from another manufacturer. It didn't happen again.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[PinballMilitia 0]

Well, here's another one with the same problem.
It does appear as though the interior of the line keepers are not sewn to perfection, leaving "sharp" fabric on the inside fuzzing up the excess steering lines. I had a rigger change them for me and 60 jumps later they are starting to bother me again, atleast in the esthetic sense.
He said the had also noticed the problem on atleast some of the rental gear at our dropzone (all icons)

[humbled1 0]

My lines for my main were made by PD, not Aerodyne. I figure if I have my lower brake lines replaced and my keepers modified (if my rigger agrees) , then I will at least know if that was the cause. But who knows, after looking at them again the fuzziness is where the "bend" in the excess brake line is in the keepers. At least in my rig it appears to be related to the stowing/releasing of my brakes. If I find out more info I will post it.

EDIT: yeah I thing the edges of the keepers are the prob on my rig, I think if they had sewn the edges with a rounded side (just a hem in a pair of pants) it would prevent this.

"Tell ya the truth, I don't think this is a brains kind of operation."

[linebckr83 3]

My 07 Pilot has only been in my new 08 Icon (for almost 100 jumps now) and I haven't had any problems to date.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[pinkfairy 0]

Yup, I have the same problem with my Icon, DOM early 2007.

I think it's caused by exess thread ends being burned off (this was done at the factory, they came to me in that condition), creating a sharp edge on the inside of where you stow the exess steering lines.

It did help to cut off said sharp edges with scissors, (I had my rigger do it, as I was all new and didn't dare to do it myself), but it's still not perfect, and for that reason I prefer to stow the lines in a non standard way.

I'd really like some new risers, but I suspect a new pair of aerodyne ones will have the same problem.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[Mr.B 0]

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I'd really like some new risers, but I suspect a new pair of aerodyne ones will have the same problem.

I don't think you'll have the same problem with new risers. I've got an Icon from march 2008, and there is no excess thread inside those line keepers (so I guess, that aerodyne fixed that issue). Despite this, my break lines still wear unusualy fast I think, that one cause of this might be that the upper keeper is too high on the riser (in relation to a guide ring) - it's almost on the same level as the guide ring. Due to this fact, when unstowing breaks, excess line doesn't just slip out of the keeper in an upward direction - the line bends almost 90 degrees when coming out of the upper keeper, and that causes unneeded (and probably damaging) brushing of the line on a pretty sharp edge of said keeper.
I think, that not passing the brake line through the upper keeper (only using the lower one) should reduce the wear that appears on the breaks (the line will be pulled from the keeper in a more upward direction, which should reduce scrathing on those sharp edges of the keepers).


cheers,
Bart

[RIGGER 0]

There are 2 main points for the BRK-TOG lines might get the fuzz;

1.If the sewing thread that keeps the top side of the guide rings tape folded in half was melted during the mfg. process.

2. The 2 tape loops on the back of the Aerodyne main rear risers where the extra steering lines are set in. The tapes are under folded & sewn to riser BUT the under folded edges are Hot Knifed cut & the sharp edges are exposed to the inside - this also FUZZ the lower steering lines.

I saw that issue on other rigs were an Aerodyne main was inside but at most cases the reason was sharp thread or sharp tapes.

Also if there are any melted thread on the rear risers
at any top point that might effect the 1000 lb. spectra lines on there up & down move.

Some points to check.

Cheers !!!