Buying first rig, advice appreciated

[Cinders 0]

Hi all. Have about 130 jumps on rented gear. Finally saved enough to get a rig in early spring.

Still researching and making notes, but I'd love to get some more experienced input. My DZ guys tend to push their own rigs as what to get, but that's not always the case. I weigh 215, 6', relaxed and cautious jumper. Not looking for stunts or competition for quite a while, even if I could ever afford it

What do you think about the number of cells affecting the opening? Besides Sabre 2 and Stilleto, I've not seen or heard much else on a personal level. What else is out there for someone in the "intermediate" level?

Thanks

[monkycndo 0]

My kingdom to the person that can find a way to filter out all these posts and send the poster to the search function.

edit.

Oh, and welcome to the site. It is actually a great place to learn, but *almost * every question has been asked. Yours more than most.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[ctp2336 0]

If the search function works, this question has been posted several times and in tremendous detail.

Right now the search doesn't work (for me at least), so I have been waiting to ask anything, so as to avoid the "use the search" or "check the top right corner" jabs.

I saw it has been addressed in the "bugs and errors" section, so I'm sure it will be resolved soon.

What might help is check the "Gear Review" section on individual pieces. The people leaving reviews range from new guys like us to jumpers with thousands of jumps, and they tell it like it is.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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What do you think about the number of cells affecting the opening? Besides Sabre 2 and Stilleto, I've not seen or heard much else on a personal level. What else is out there for someone in the "intermediate" level?

Thanks

A Stiletto is _not_ an intermediate canopy. It's the most sensitive to toggle input out of all the PD canopies ever made. Subsequent PD designs were been detuned because John LeBlanc (he's been designing canopies at PD for 25 years) observed experienced jumpers having problems keeping the canopy level while landing Stilettos. Failing to have good body position and deal with openings will also lead to cutaways on a Stiletto.

[Bertt 0]

OK, search function aside, here's an idea. Contact Performance Designs and arrange to demo a Sabre2 , then a Storm. That should help you decide. Stay away from the Stilleto for a while.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[likestojump 3]

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What do you think about the number of cells affecting the opening? Besides Sabre 2 and Stilleto, I've not seen or heard much else on a personal level. What else is out there for someone in the "intermediate" level?

Thanks

A Stiletto is _not_ an intermediate canopy. It's the most sensitive to toggle input out of all the PD canopies ever made. Subsequent PD designs were been detuned because John LeBlanc (he's been designing canopies at PD for 25 years) observed experienced jumpers having problems keeping the canopy level while landing Stilettos. Failing to have good body position and deal with openings will also lead to cutaways on a Stiletto.

I feel that Vengeance is an even more sensitive. But that's just me...

[Cinders 0]

Well,you're right and wrong about the search. First thing I did was that and a lot of people ask generalized questions which aren't any help. I did get some notes down. I've looked at the canopy sellers sites and would write down the names of rigs in my WL range and then search on that. Mostly either super specialized questions that don't get a definite answer (usually rolling the nose, with lots of varying opinions) or so general that it doesnt help either :)

Jumped MOSTLY sabre2 on rentals. Seems like a great stable chute, but I don't want to blindly go with that. I've had a few groin area rashes from hard openings, but usually smooth. I notice the outside cells usually never inflate on opening and require a brake pump, but never a spin or failure.

Sabre2 seems good and stable for me, but maybe a little on the slow-response after I got used to it. Maybe just try a smaller WL?

Thanks for the replies guys. Trying not to look like the total "duh, what do I buy?", lol. Looking for intermediate chutes that have a good reputation. I have some notes, but want as much input as possible.

I'm not a rich guy by far, so this will be my rig for a LONG time (winning the lottery, aside). Taken me almost 4 years of putting a couple hundred aside a month to get the money for this, with work and college keeping me down!

Thanks for the welcome too. Sorry to be another burden with redundant questions. I'll take the slap in order to get that one reply that leads me to something perfect for me that I would never have found.

[LaRusic 0]

Have you thought about buying used?

there are lots of good used gear out there that could save you a lot of money.

and for all those that mention the search thing, is there any way to have a sticky made up with with some info about beginner/intermediate canopies and WL so maybe ya can combat being asked the same question over and over....i think it would help generate some more specific questions

The Altitude above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel not in the plane are totally worthless
Dudeist Skydiver # 10

[skybytch 259]

It's a few years old and never was a sticky, but this thread may help answer a few questions.

[upndownshop 0]

This might save you a little search time. A couple of the articles are on DZ.com as well.

http://skyfestboogie.com/wing-tips

happy shopping

[LaRusic 0]

see now that should be a sticky, great info in there

I think something like that would save a lot of redundant questions

The Altitude above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel not in the plane are totally worthless
Dudeist Skydiver # 10

[skybytch 259]

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see now that should be a sticky, great info in there

I think something like that would save a lot of redundant questions

I thought so too, but oh well...

[LaRusic 0]

with everyone complaining about people asking the same question ud think they wouldnt mind a good answer as a sticky

The Altitude above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel not in the plane are totally worthless
Dudeist Skydiver # 10

[Cinders 0]

Thanks guys, really appreciate it. Got like 5 years in this sport, tired of rentals sucking down my jump money. Can't wait until I can get like 4-5 jumps in instead of 1-2 for the same cost.


BTW, looked at used gear. I have a hard time finding my WL size, I realize I'm a bit heavier than the average bear and not searching for an extreme ratio WL. I was looking for a 190 main, really. The gearshop I go to is watching out for me on that size, but few pop up and go fast.

Tried the resellers in the back of USPA magazine, but they don't have much in the way of used. Anyone knows a good reseller, I'd love you for a link :)


Ok, I gotta tell this story, for the laugh:

Going up, sitting across from a guy with a nice black/purple container. I make a nice comment and he replies, but with a thick Canadian accent. I'm in south USA, so I'm surprised a little. Long story short, he's here for the Twin Otter (he said they're made in Canada, but I have no clue) and to test his "new chute" he got on eBay.
I'm thinking: 'risky, but if it checks out ok...'

Me: "Take it you had the packer go over it?"

Him: "Why? I just peeked in the side. The guy packed it for me and since he's had it, it'll be a better job than me, not wasting a good pack"

Me: "Seriously? Dude, last week's newspaper might come flying out when you pull! .... Hey, can I hold your wallet until you make it down?"

He didn't think it was funny, but the whole load overheard and tried to talk him out of it. Apparently it all worked ok, glad for him, but! Holy crap!

I think he thought I was a dick for my lack of faith in my fellow human.

[Cinders 0]

Sry to post again, but here's some chutes I'm looking at, if you know anything very good or at all bad, I would REALLY appreciate it:

Spectre
Sabre 2
Silhouette
Katana (hard to find reviews on this one)
Navigator (jumped this before, had some rough openings and several openings in a turn)
Lightning

[monkycndo 0]

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Sry to post again, but here's some chutes I'm looking at, if you know anything very good or at all bad, I would REALLY appreciate it:

Spectre
Sabre 2
Silhouette
Katana (hard to find reviews on this one)
Navigator (jumped this before, had some rough openings and several openings in a turn)
Lightning

I didn't see your jump numbers, but the Katana is a higher performance canopy and the Lightning is used for CReW deployed sub-terminal only. The other four are all good canopies choices. The Nav is more of a student canopy, but is very good for big jumpers.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I'm not a rich guy by far, so this will be my rig for a LONG time (winning the lottery, aside). Taken me almost 4 years of putting a couple hundred aside a month to get the money for this, with work and college keeping me down!

Most guys with merely average levels of testosterone poisoning who don't downsize imprudently fast will go through 2-3 rigs and 6-7 main canopies before arriving at a combination they stay with indefinitely. The first rig might be good for only 400 jumps which is just two or three years at an average clip.

Once you get to rig 2-3 you can put thousands of jumps on it (I've had the same rig size since 1998 and still don't want anything smaller). The time to really get on well with a canopy goes up (I put 600 jumps on my Stiletto 120) and you're not going to loose the depreciation game by buying your 6th or 7 parachute in your colors (unless you break yourself, develop a limp, get fat, and want to upsize).

That breaking yourself bit is a lot more likely if you try to short circuit the process by getting something you'll "grow into" and "jump for a long time"

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Thanks guys, really appreciate it. Got like 5 years in this sport, tired of rentals sucking down my jump money. Can't wait until I can get like 4-5 jumps in instead of 1-2 for the same cost.

I bought my first rig in time for jump #13 and would have still come out ahead financially over renting if I deposited it in the DZ dumpster on jump #85.

Instead I sold the parts for most of the $1700 I originally paid.

I was probably under 190 pounds out the door at the time, and the instructors were pretty uniformly split as to whether I should get a 190 or 210. Picked up a 205, and the same rig was fine for two down sizes to a 155. The 135 fell out in the plane due to poor closing loop tension so I got a new rig.

[skybytch 259]

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The other four are all good canopies choices.

A Lightning is not a good choice for an all around canopy. It's great if you just want to do CRW though...

[Cinders 0]

Thanks for more input :)

Katana is high performance? I read reviews stating its a soft opening with solid, gentle landings. Had 50/50 on it having 180 degree off heading openings, while the other half said perfect headings. I did think something would be different about it with that odd shape.

Not a CRW guy, so I'll put the lightning further down the list. What makes it a CRW type? On heading openings?

I'm working on my freefly, and I eventually want to work my way into videotography.

[dragon2 0]

Here's a handy list about where to place various canopies performance-wise. For a first canopy you want a canopy from category 1, 2 or 3, most people go with a cat 2 or 3 canopy: click

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[mdrejhon 8]

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Twin Otter (he said they're made in Canada, but I have no clue)

I can confirm that they are Canadian airplanes.

It was manufactured by de Havilland Canada -- and Canada has an influence on it being a good bush plane, as well as and excellent ability to fly in cold conditions.

At the time, many Canadian country airports (outside metro areas like Montreal and Toronto) were bush-like conditions including mid-forest and northern airports. The excellent cold-flying abilities have led to Twin otters being used as a workhorse for Antartic bases today.

[mdrejhon 8]

The good news: Gear that you need is in high demand.

If you MANAGE to nab some *good* used gear that are a proper fit for your situation (190 sq feet), you can resell it at the same price, or near, in just a year or two from now. This size you're looking for is an extremely popular 'first gear' size, which has very low depreciation if you pay 'used' to begin with. As you witness, these gear sizes show up used, rarely and sell out fast because this is a popular first-rig size.

For a poor student, the prospect of buying new and then getting an instant 30% depreciation is pretty scary -- just like driving a freshly purchased car off a car dealer lot. But this is less the case if you buy a good used well-maintained 10-year-old Honda/Toyota in a private sale, use it for six months, then resell it for almost the same price.

If you are hell bent on buying new, consider this option: You might get some excellent package deal through a place like SQUARE 1 that allows you to get free gear rentals while you make payment instalments towards your new gear, and then while waiting for the gear to be custom manufactured for you. If you are near one of them, this is definitely worth considering. For the SQUARE 1's and similar: If you are in California, check out Skydive Perris. If you are in or near Arizonia, check out Eloy (Skydive Arizona). If you are in Florida, check out Cross Keys.

Factor this into your consideration.

[skybytch 259]

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Katana is high performance?

Yes.

Any of the canopies listed in the link I posted upthread are good first canopies. Add the PD Storm to that list; it wasn't available when that post was written.

Other than the ones on that list, there really aren't any other canopies out there that are suitable for a novice.

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What makes it a CRW type? On heading openings?

Line trim, construction, deployment system, retractable pilot chute, opening characteristics, landing characteristics...

[Cinders 0]

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Here's a handy list about where to place various canopies performance-wise. For a first canopy you want a canopy from category 1, 2 or 3, most people go with a cat 2 or 3 canopy: click

That's awesome, thank you so much! Also, thanks to everyone else for the info.

I'd really love to get used, I'm definitely not hellbent on new.

Can used containers straps be altered?