Spinning in freefall

[nacmacfeegle 0]

All the above, plus, get video...It really does help.
D

[Emmie 0]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I totally appreciate the support. My entire DZ migrated to Florida, so its good to hear from other skydivers : )
As sick as I am of hearing the word "relax", I kind of know that that's what I have to do to finally finish AFF. I had great JM's at the beggining of AFF, but then my main instructor dislocated his shoulder, and the other JM that I grew to have confidence in sort of started to like me, which made the situation totally uncomfortable. The JM that I jumped with at the end was great, but he didn't try to hide his dissapointment when I had the cutaway. I was his 1st student, so I felt bad about screwing up. So the pressure was definetely on.
I agree that maybe what I need is a change of scene. I talked to the Freefall Adventure staff, and they said that they would take me to the tunnel as soon as I get to Sebastian. I can't wait, skydiving's the best thing that ever happened to me and I'm not going to let one bad experience screw it up.
Blue Skies
Emmie

[skymedic 0]

hey emmie, when you get down there...look for the guy in the freefly suit with big neon green snakes on the side...thats me...
Marc
Res Firma Mitescere Nescite

[bill2 0]

I passed AFF in October, and had the same problem with spinning in L4 and again in L7. As Pammi, I think it was her, mentioned about people telling her about toe taps until she was blue in the face, that doesn't always help while you're in the air. The biggest thing for me, toe taps eventually helped a little, was relaxing. And this didn't happen until my JM flew in close and started blowing kisses at me. I started laughing at him, the first time in AFF that I had laughed in free fall. From then on, I thought of that when I was getting nervous. Just like in any sport, tensing up screws up your performance. Also, as some people have mentioned, one leg sticking out at an odd angle can cause you to turn. If you can relax, try the toe tapping - it just might help.

[DBTECH 0]

If you can start a turn, you can stop a spin.
Dave Brownell

[Mann 0]

This thread hasn't been updated for a while, but I though I might pop in and put my 2 cents on the table. After all - this is where I looked for help when I had no idea what to do about MY spinning problem. Luckily, it's solved by now.

My problem probably lay in the fact that I had done previous levels (stable flight for 5, 10 and 15 seconds) with no need to repeat anything. Bellyflying had just... happened! I had no idea how exactly I was doing it, but I always ended up belly-down just as soon as the plane had gone out of my view. So of course I thought that next level, turning, was going to miraculously happen just as bellyflying had.

Guess what? It didn't.

At first, when I asked fellow skydivers about turning and what exactly makes one turn in the air, I got a bunch of different replies.

"It's enough for you to turn your palms to induce a turn."
"No, palms won't do you any good. As a student you do so much with your feet that you're going to compensate everything your palms do. Move your feet."
"Make your body into propeller-shaped thingy, right shoulder down while left thigh down."
And the best of them all: "Oh, don't sweat it. Just think 'Turn', look in that direction and your body will do the rest."

Uhmm... yeah.

I'd lay in our packing area practicing, but it would just not settle in. "So if I move my right shoulder... wait, that's my left shoulder. So if I move my right shoulder, I need to lower my left thigh and... wait, what?" I had a very vague idea of what exactly I'm supposed to do while in the air, but I went up anyway, hoping it to "just happen".

What happened was that after leaving the plane I slightly spun to the left, thinking I had induced it myself at first. When I realized that I didn't know how to stop it, I knew: "I don't really know how to turn yet." I deployed while turning. No line twists, though!

Once on the ground I practiced a bit more. They would look at me and correct my body position, helping me to understand what exactly is happening with my feet as they're out of my view anyway. And honestly - as a student skydiver I have no control whatsoever over toes, angles etc, as it's just waaaay to much information to handle at first. =)

When I went up for the next try it happened again, this time faster: I spun to the left and nothing I did helped. I'd tap my feet, change the way I held my shoulders, move my feet - nothing. I was spinning left and deployed still turning. No line twists, again.

Third time was the scariest. I didn't feel right about going up that day anymore as I was already frustrated with unintentional spinning, but... at the same time I was so angry with myself that I wanted to "tough it out and do it".

The moment they opened the door of our plane I could feel cold chills in my stomach. "Oh god no, I don't want to go through it again."

You can see from the video that it doesn't look bad at the exit (www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyNe5IH_M9A, I'm the first one to leave), but as soon as I started to see ground it was spinning already. And this time - fast enough to make me sick.

I tapped my feet - nothing.
I tapped them again - nothing.
I "bombed" with collecting my hands/legs on my chest, rolling over the back and spreading out again, but I was spinning left anyway. I was flying in the air while wishing to be on the ground already. Man that feeling sucks!

In fact, it was so hard to keep my hands stable in that spin that I couldn't really see my alti, it was shaking so bad. I deployed "somewhere around" deployment altitude and looking back, I probably deployed later than usual.

Needless to say that I didn't feel good that evening - nor the next or the next after that. Every time I looked at that video or though about skydiving in general, by stomach went cold.

3 weeks later I was back at our dropzone, but this time: with another agenda.

I'd read a quote at skydivingmovies.com. Somebody was describing his instructor with these words: "I was nervous and he told me "Everybody says to relax. It doesn't work. It's like telling someone not to think of a blue elephant. Just think 'smile'"" I don't know about you guys, but to me it just made sense.

I decided to postpone passing levels (a.k.a turning) and go back to the basics. "Forget turning, spinning, body movement, all the technical details anyway. Just focus on one: get out that damn plane and smile from the very first second. Fuck spinning! Fuck turning! Just smile and enjoy."

And I did!

I don't know if it was more due to me smiling or the fact that I'd finally gotten that right-shoulder-left-thigh move (I'd been practicing in my bed every evening), but everything worked. I was able to stop my left turn, make it into a right one, then stop it again and even get a second or two of stable flying before deploying. Boy oh boy was I shouting once under the canopy! =D

"Wohoooooo! Whoa! Hell yeah!" the air was filled with me and my parachute. "Hell yeah!"

Next time I went out that plane, I didn't have to tell myself to smile - I just did without telling. Skydiving had become a thing to enjoy again and I was excited to get out and rock the air.

I had learned once more that wishing something really bad doesn't necessarily make it happen faster as all this tension has to manifest in some way or another. It sure feels that "laying" on the wind makes it way easier that "toughing it out" on the wind.

Can't wait to see what's going to happen when I start learning backflips =D

[jamieG 0]

Hi,

I had similar problems when I did my AFF. Maybe I took the easyway but I spent 20 minutes in the SkyVenture and it really boosted my confidence which I think was half the battle in my case. The next day i felt like a different person in the door and didnt look back from there.

Have fun.

[erdnarob 1]

Here is the way I teach to solve that spinning problem. First the cause: You are spinning because your body is not symetrical. You think you are but you aren't.
1) A trick which can maybe work for you is the following: When in freefall bend your fingers and toes forcefully. That will make you know what position in the space or in 3D your legs and arms have. As soon as you do that, normally you will correct accordingly.
2) learn also how to turn. Knowing what makes you turn will show you how to stop the turn by conteracting. eg. tilting arm and shoulder one side.
3) when in freefall if you start turning, arch and think about your ears and put your arms at ears level while bending your fingers and toes as said in item 1). Good luck and tell me if it works for you.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Croc 0]

Great advice on the bending of the fingers and toes thing. I'll try that with my students. I never have had a student spin who arched correctly; presenting a flat surface to the prevailing wind appears to exaggerate any poor body position and make what might be an arched turn into a spin. As a result I stress arching by having them practice arching while standing in front of a wall rather than lying on the ground. IMHO virtually all exit and freefall problems will go away with a proper arch. I also do as you do and teach my students how to turn as soon as I see them having a problem in freefall. This approach seems to work best for them.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[dancy 0]

I like your story!
I also had spinning problems and once I pulled pretty low because I WANTED to fight it.
Then I was thinking...the air isn't something you have to fight against. Rather you need to make friends with it. The air holds you and gives an amazingly solid mass that you can work with. I tried to use my hands like paddles in water. This helped and I gained confidence. It's not easy to control your legs since you can't see them. And if you can't stop spinning you may panic which makes things even worse. So it can help to use your hands first but soon I realized that it is a hard work to compensate a bad leg position this way. But the confidence and stability I gained gave me a chance to work on my leg position and develop the same feeling as with my hands.
I think that "relax" is a good advice. Everybody has his or her own way to achieve this.

[chuteless 1]

Emmie: I had the same problem back in 1962, and it took a bit of time, because everything then was learn as you go.

I have some advice for you re spinning, and all you will have to do is concentrate.

Once you are by yourself, in freefall, watch and see if the spin starts, ( concentrate on it) and remember this. You will turn in the direction of the offending arm not being in the right position.

Usually it is one of your arms that is not symetrical and slightly behind the position of the other arm.

Drawing one's arm back in a basic spread, will cause you to turn ....in the direction of that arm.

If one arm is "even slightly behind" the symetery of the other, you will turn, slowly at first, but it will begin to be a faster spin.

CONCENTRATE ON IT....and push the arm ahead and the spin should slow and stop when you have symetery.

If both arms are symetric, then you should be able to do the entire freefall without any turning.

Once you have done a couple of jumps without an unnatural spin, then concentrate on it, and slowly draw one arm, ( either one) back. That will give you the ability to turn. Pick a heading on the ground ( a road or fence line, hedge of trees etc) and turn slowly 360 degrees. then put your arm slowly ahead again, and stop the turn.

Then do the same with the other arm....360 degrees, and push the arm slowly ahead and stop.

You WILL gain control overthe spinning, but CONCENTRATING on where your arms are...both hands should be directly opposite of each other....say slightly ahead of your face. The arm should be exactly 90 degrees at the elbow.

Practice on the ground for awhile...get the feel of it.

Back to 1962....I once took a camera to photgraph another jumper, and I saw him every time I passed in front of him. I was spinning at a very high rate of speed, and of course...never was able to get a picture. He just laughed at me...spining past him like a kids toy top.

Do NOT do any turns as you are deploying your chute...you will wind the lines to the top.

Let me know how you make out with it.

CONCENTRATE .....know where your hands, arms are in relationship to your body.

CONCENTRATE


Bill Cole D-41