TerminatorSRT4 0 #1 November 11, 2008 So I am planning on buying my own rig now and am wanting some opinions. I'm not really looking for advice as to what container, canopy, etc as there are countless threads about that already. But I'm trying to understand why nearly everyone I've talked to thinks it is an absolutely downright terrible thing to buy new gear. Funny enough, nearly all of these people are fairly new jumpers with used gear The way I've been my whole life is that if I'm going to spend my money on something expensive (car, computer, etc) I like to buy new. You never really know what you're getting with used stuff, even if the person seems to be honest, I don't trust many people. Especially with skydiving rig. I realize I can have it mailed to me and have my local rigger check it out. But still, it doesn't seem worth it to me financially. To get a decent full rig I'd probably be spending around 3K give or take some. On a new rig I'd be spending about 5K roughly. If I have the money, is it really THAT bad of a thing to get new gear? Most of the arguments are "you're going to downsize and regret buying a new canopy." First off, I don't plan on downsizing anytime soon. I plan on getting a 210 square/semi-elliptical canopy and my wingloading would be about 0.88. I know you can generally downsize on a container one time, so I can go down to a 190, and after that I can go to elliptical, and then after that go to crossbraced...so I plan on keeping the same container for awhile as well. So I'm just wondering if it is really such a bad thing to spend my hard earned money on something new, get it custom fitted to me, with whatever colors I choose instead of a piece of used gear? Ok, done talking.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #2 November 11, 2008 You already had people who tried to tell you why it isn't a great idea, but heck it isn't a terrible idea either, so why should we suggest otherwise. Go buy new, you will keep the gear manf. in business, and I have friends who work for them. Plus there will be lots of happy students to buy your gear down the road long after you took the hit on the depreciation. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #3 November 11, 2008 Quote Plus there will be lots of happy students to buy your gear down the road long after you took the hit on the depreciation. that's what I was figuring too, even if I do lose a bigger amount of money when selling, I'm just adding some more used gear to the big mixing pool of used gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #4 November 11, 2008 If your wingloading on a 190 is 1.13 and you have acontainer for a 210-190, dont plan on using that same container for a crossbraced canopy. You will need a smaller container for a crossbraced canopy. You dont load a crossbraced canopy at 1.3 Once you are finished with the 190 canopy you will need to downsize if you want to jump a true elliptical canopy, especially a crossbraced. If money is not a problem then buy new. Just expect to pay around $6000-$7000 not $5000 as you suggest. I dont think you could buy a articulated rig with basic options and cypres for $5000 brand new. I have to ask, you say you will go from a 210-190 and then will go crossbraced etc, does that mean you think you can jump a crossbraced in the same container? (not talking about experience or anything) just wondering if you are thinking instead of downsizing you can just put higher performance canopies in that same container. Welcome to the sport mate and good luck with finding the answers you seek. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dokeman 0 #5 November 11, 2008 I bought a new container and reserve when I had about 50 jumps. Then I put about 1000 jumps on it before selling it because I couldn't downsize anymore. i would suggest buying a used main, just because you will probably want something different in 100 jumps or so. Also learning to pack on new main is a huge pain in the ass. If you do get new stuff, I would recommend getting a container that will hold the size canopy you want to jump and nothing bigger. That way you can downsize twice with the same rig. At least thats what I did and it worked out great for me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #6 November 11, 2008 Quote I have to ask, you say you will go from a 210-190 and then will go crossbraced etc, does that mean you think you can jump a crossbraced in the same container? (not talking about experience or anything) just wondering if you are thinking instead of downsizing you can just put higher performance canopies in that same container. honestly I didn't know that you couldn't jump a crossbraced in the same type of container made for 7/9 cells, but that's good to know though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheCaptain 2 #7 November 11, 2008 Crossbraced canopies are usually 120SQ feet or smaller. I have heard of a few 125's but that is about it. I will use the car analogy for buying your first equipment. If you knew in two years from now you would be buying a different car buying new car does not make much sense as it will deprecate too much in those first couple of years (to recover it from resale or driving it out of the car). The same thing is generally true about skydiving equipment. Generally a given container is good for up to 3 canopy sizes/not including pack volume differences of crossbraced canopies (the one it was made for, one size up which will be very difficult to pack into the smaller container, and one size smaller). Most skydivers down size a few sizes in the first few years of skydiving that is why most skydiver suggest buying used. That way when you are closer to the end size you will be flying for a long time then most skydivers buy new.Kirk He's dead Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #8 November 11, 2008 If you can afford it and you don't care about depreciation, definitely buy new. At those sizes you'll have NO problem reselling when/if you're ready to downsize, you'll get the colors you want (let's be honest, it's not how well we fly that matters, it's how good we look flying) and you'll get a harness that fits your body. The big disadvantage to buying new and custom for a novice (other than price) is the delivery time. Oh, and getting that first scratch on the container... that part sucks... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #9 November 11, 2008 Quote Crossbraced canopies are usually 120SQ feet or smaller. I have heard of a few 125's but that is about it. I will use the car analogy for buying your first equipment. If you knew in two years you would be buying a different car buying new car does not make much sense as it will depreciate too much in those first couple of years. The same thing is generally true about skydiving equipment. Generally a given container is good for up to 3 canopy sizes (the one it was made for, one size up which will be very difficult to pack into the smaller container, and one size smaller). Most skydivers down size a few sizes in the first few years of skydiving that is why most skydiver suggest buying used. That way when you are closer to the end size you will be flying for a long time then most skydivers buy new. makes sense, thanks for the reply also, didn't know that about crossbraced, guess I want be on one of those for awhile Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #10 November 11, 2008 No its not that mate. You can jump those canopies in container made for 7/9 cells. Its the size. It is very unusual for crossbraced canopies that would go in a container that large for a 210. You see, with a crossbraced canopies you also want a much higher wing loading than 1.13. That is why I asked, Was wondering i you meant that. Canopies that sell very fast on the second hand market and retain their value are 170'2-210's. These canopies have a very high demand as it is the first stepping stone for every new person to the sport. If you can afford it, go new. It will sell easily after a few hundred jumps. When i say if you can afford it, i mean - if you can afford to buy two brand new rigs within a couple of years, thinking you are doing 100 jumps a year. The average jumper with an average body build would be on a 170 within 200 jumps. most within 150 jumps. I always think a good time to buy new gear is when you are on a 190 and getting ready for a 170. you then buy the kit for a 170 and jump the 190 while waiting for it to be made. This size container will last you alot longer than a 210-190 generally would. You start to rapidly slow down when it comes to downsizing once on a 150. Sure, some just downsize real fast but downsizing from a 150 to a 135 is a bigger lead than say a 190 to a 170. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #11 November 11, 2008 Oh, I see, thanks for the info that's good to know I won't have a hard time selling a 210 when the time comes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #12 November 11, 2008 Go ahead! You'll make lots of people happy: -some crowd when you try to pack you shine new canopy -packers who would pack your gear after you have given up -the next 2-3 lucky buster who would buy your gear. Go ahead! I guess you don't ever listen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #13 November 11, 2008 so basically nobody should buy new gear ever? we should all buy used? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ficus 0 #14 November 11, 2008 QuoteThe way I've been my whole life is that if I'm going to spend my money on something expensive (car, computer, etc) I like to buy new. You never really know what you're getting with used stuff, even if the person seems to be honest, I don't trust many people. Your prerogative, obviously, but I do want to point out one thing. Any rig, new or used, needs a thorough inspection by a rigger. Manufacturers make errors, too. There is nothing magic about new gear, safety-wise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #15 November 11, 2008 Quote Your prerogative, obviously, but I do want to point out one thing. Any rig, new or used, needs a thorough inspection by a rigger. Manufacturers make errors, too. There is nothing magic about new gear, safety-wise. If I do buy new I definitely plan on getting my rigger to inspect everything and also obviously assemble everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 November 11, 2008 Nothing wrong with buying new gear right off, it's what I did. It's more expensive and you'll loose more in depreciation, but if you've got the money to play with (and that's what money is for, right) then make yourself happy and buy new. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #17 November 11, 2008 QuoteGo ahead! I guess you don't ever listen. Why does it matter to you if a novice buys new or used? It's not like his decision is going to impact your safety. It's his money, not yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #18 November 11, 2008 QuoteQuoteGo ahead! I guess you don't ever listen. Why does it matter to you if a novice buys new or used? It's not like his decision is going to impact your safety. It's his money, not yours. Sure. We all are happy for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #19 November 11, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Go ahead! I guess you don't ever listen. Why does it matter to you if a novice buys new or used? It's not like his decision is going to impact your safety. It's his money, not yours. Sure. We all are happy for them. well I'm glad you're happy for me ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #20 November 11, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Go ahead! I guess you don't ever listen. Why does it matter to you if a novice buys new or used? It's not like his decision is going to impact your safety. It's his money, not yours. Sure. We all are happy for them. well I'm glad you're happy for me ... How about buying a used and you can spend the difference on beer for the local DZ? Or you may jump more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #21 November 11, 2008 Quote How about buying a used and you can spend the difference on beer for the local DZ? hmmm, that's a good idea too I can only image what 2-3K worth of beer would do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #22 November 11, 2008 Quote I can only image what 2-3K worth of beer would do Shocked How many jumps you can make from 2-3K? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #23 November 11, 2008 oh wow...I just realized I made a stupid mistake, I corrected the above wingloading I listed as 1.13, it's actually 0.88...I had just woken up when I put that not that that has any effect on my original topic/question, but I still wanted to correct myself *kicking myself in the head* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TerminatorSRT4 0 #24 November 11, 2008 Quote Quote I can only image what 2-3K worth of beer would do Shocked How many jumps you can make from 2-3K? about 120 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #25 November 11, 2008 Quote oh wow...I just realized I made a stupid mistake, I corrected the above wingloading I listed as 1.13, it's actually 0.88...I had just woken up when I put that not that that has any effect on my original topic/question, but I still wanted to correct myself *kicking myself in the head* So on a 190 you will be 0.88? IS that what you are saying? The you dont want to be buying a 210 brand new. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
