everymansaved 0 #1 July 26, 2008 Hey all, one of my customers seems to be having a problem with his Argus. He tried to turn it on and it froze on the screen that says "Hello." I contacted Argus by phone, but Karel is on vacation, and I'm unable to reach him on his cell. Has anyone had this problem and knows how to fix it? He'd like to jump this weekend but is unable to as nobody knows what his AAD is thinking. Thanks in advance for your help. Sean LRGod made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrojanHorse 0 #2 July 26, 2008 Hi Sean PM me your phone number or check your pm for mine. Seems easy to solve. Warm regards, William Argus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
everymansaved 0 #4 July 27, 2008 Problem solved, thanks!God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #5 July 27, 2008 Any chance of sharing the solution to the problem with the rest of us?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
everymansaved 0 #6 July 28, 2008 I wish I could, but the problem seemed to solve itself! When William from Aviacom (who replied above) saw my post, he contacted my DZ by telephone and talked to me about it. He asked me to try double clicking the button, and holding it for 5 sec, neither of which worked. He then suggested that we open the reserve, unplug the display for 5 sec, and plug it back in, which he was sure would work. It was the middle of the day, so I was going to do it that night, but it un-froze itself and turned off about 4 hrs later. We turned it on, and it was fine from there on.God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 July 28, 2008 Based on recent incidents with AAD's I'd suggest not jumping it till it's been inspected by the manufacturer.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #8 July 29, 2008 QuoteI wish I could, but the problem seemed to solve itself! When William from Aviacom (who replied above) saw my post, he contacted my DZ by telephone and talked to me about it. He asked me to try double clicking the button, and holding it for 5 sec, neither of which worked. He then suggested that we open the reserve, unplug the display for 5 sec, and plug it back in, which he was sure would work. It was the middle of the day, so I was going to do it that night, but it un-froze itself and turned off about 4 hrs later. We turned it on, and it was fine from there on. this is scary stuff. One concern I have with the argus is the user replaceable batteries. Convenient? Definitely. But does that also mean the power supply is less reliable? When troubleshooting solutions include unplugging things for a few seconds to 'clear it,' I get nervous. The scuba dive computer world moved from a mix of user and factory factory servicable batteries in the mid 90s, but there were definitely issues, esp with the cochran brand which was notorious for turning itself off mid dive. The batteries wouldn't last a decent dive trip. As circuits became less power hungry, these concerns have diminished - my Suunto is 8 years old and is just about to finish off the second battery. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
novacaine 0 #9 July 29, 2008 QuoteQuoteThe scuba dive computer world moved from a mix of user and factory factory servicable batteries in the mid 90s, but there were definitely issues, esp with the cochran brand which was notorious for turning itself off mid dive. The batteries wouldn't last a decent dive trip. As circuits became less power hungry, these concerns have diminished - my Suunto is 8 years old and is just about to finish off the second battery. The Suunto computers are the best on the market. I used to have an old cochran and after 5 dives the battery failed. After dive 9 I got bent for the first time in my life. To this day I have never been able to trust the Cochrans. Makes my palms sweety!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrojanHorse 0 #10 July 29, 2008 QuoteOne concern I have with the argus is the user replaceable batteries. Convenient? Definitely. But does that also mean the power supply is less reliable? Hi Jason, The current CR 123 is as reliable as the other brand batteries in use. Don't understand me wrong any battery can fail. You must have a system in place that detects this well in time. The solution for the problem described was because the unit did not complete the self test (had nothing to do with the power supply). We all read in this forum about the recent incidents with AADs misfiring. The only advice given for a self test not completed is: don't jump it. In this case however, the Argus completed afterwards the self test at least two more times successful (after being switched off and on again). The screen can freeze due to a sudden change in air pressure during switch on. This is for the field a very rare event. During tests in the factory this happens more often as we have sudden pressure changes there all the time (part of the testing program). In such a case is a trouble shooting solution as unplugging and reconnecting the display for a few seconds the best, easiest and safe to do. More about the tests or the batteries you can find in our design and test report (please see link below) Warm regards, William Aviacom/ Argus http://argus-aad.connexeon.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=189&Itemid=45 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brettski74 0 #11 July 30, 2008 QuoteThe screen can freeze due to a sudden change in air pressure during switch on. This is for the field a very rare event. During tests in the factory this happens more often as we have sudden pressure changes there all the time (part of the testing program). In such a case is a trouble shooting solution as unplugging and reconnecting the display for a few seconds the best, easiest and safe to do. Sounds like a firmware bug or something that should be solveable within firmware. Is there a firmware upgrade coming that should resolve this problem? It's all fine and good to say that unplugging the display should solve the problem, but if I open the reserve container to resolve the problem more quickly, I'm then going to need to find a rigger and pay for a repack or if I'm lucky enough to have the rigger who did my repack standing by, maybe he/she can open and close it without doing a full repack. Either way, not really convenient solutions. The other option of waiting several hours and hoping that it sorts itself out doesn't sound appealing to me, either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrojanHorse 0 #12 July 30, 2008 Hi Brett, QuoteSounds like a firmware bug or something that should be solveable within firmware. No firmware bug but protection. During the switch on process the unit is also for the first time calibrated. When during this process the varieties are too big in a very short period of time (we’ re talking about 20 seconds here), the unit will not continue its self test (after all it detected something unusual). QuoteIt's all fine and good to say that unplugging the display should solve the problem, but if I open the reserve container to resolve the problem more quickly, I'm then going to need to find a rigger and pay for a repack or if I'm lucky enough to have the rigger who did my repack standing by, maybe he/she can open and close it without doing a full repack. Let’s start that what happened here is a very rare event that hardly ever occurs in the field (this is the first time I heard of) and is a non issue. I knew about the freezing display from the factory where the units are obviously not packed in a container and is the reset easy to carry out. Here it happened for once in the field and even than the “problem” was able to be solved without opening the reserve container. QuoteEither way, not really convenient solutions. The other option of waiting several hours and hoping that it sorts itself out doesn't sound appealing to me, either. We do not hope something sorts itself out. We are a responsible company and this is also why I called immediately last Saturday to the dropzone to find out if it was what I already thought it was. William Aviacom/ Argus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #13 July 30, 2008 I gotta Say Trojan, and I mean this exactly how I say it, but comparitivly, the Argus really is putting on a good show. Frankly, I think it has balls to compete in a closed market where one AAD has had the market to itself since 1991, and comparitivly it's had a LOT less issues than some other new comers. I think people forget that Cypres has these issues too sometimes.... =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brettski74 0 #14 July 30, 2008 QuoteNo firmware bug but protection. During the switch on process the unit is also for the first time calibrated. When during this process the varieties are too big in a very short period of time (we’ re talking about 20 seconds here), the unit will not continue its self test (after all it detected something unusual). Ok. I can see how the firmware has no way of knowing whether the variation is due to a faulty sensor or actual air pressure variation. Are there steps that users might take to avoid triggering a false error during the self-test? Things that I'm thinking might cause such a rapid pressure change are wind gusts, or placing weight or stress on some part of the rig or reserve container during startup. Thanks for the explanation. It's this kind of straightforward and open answer that I hope will see you go far in this community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrojanHorse 0 #15 July 30, 2008 Hi Brett, The unit reads during start up some unusual facts (in such a short time frame of 20 seconds). The cause can indeed be stress on the rig (it is after all just a cushion of parachute material and a lot of air that can be compressed) Wind gusts? Maybe a strong one can leave indeed enough vacuum after the drift. Strong turbulence can also be a cause. During start up the unit is extra sensitive, necessary to get an exact as possible calibration. During the skydive several filters avoid that (as you can have hundreds of unusual peaks on one jump) But at switch on, you want pure clean conditions for your settings. Warm regards, William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pchapman 262 #16 July 31, 2008 TrojanHorse's explanation about ensuring a clean calibration sounds logical and reasonable. So there isn't anything broken with the hardware. But there is a problem in that the user isn't given any clue on the display what is happening. And it sounds like the display doesn't just temporarily freeze while the unit keeps trying a little longer to get a good calibration. It sounds like it can essentially permanently freeze, the computer in an endless loop, not allowing the user to regain control without opening up the reserve pack. Sorry to say it but this is a problem with the design, even if it is a rare occurrence. At least some warnings in the manual about startup conditions might help avoid the problem and allow users to recognize it. (Where's the Control-Alt-Delete??) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrojanHorse 0 #17 July 31, 2008 QuoteIt sounds like it can essentially permanently freeze, the computer in an endless loop, not allowing the user to regain control without opening up the reserve pack. Sorry to say it but this is a problem with the design, even if it is a rare occurrence. At least some warnings in the manual about startup conditions might help avoid the problem and allow users to recognize it. The unit sensed a problem of extreme varieties during start up. This can be caused due to local conditions/ circumstances or there is indeed something wrong. If the unit remains in an endless loop we don’t want just any user to be able to reset it him/herself and eventually trying to bypass a potential danger. If a reset via the push on the button for 4-5 seconds doesn ’t work and disconnecting the remote control neither, in most countries a parachute technician, the unit has to be returned for inspection. The unit shows permanent errors on the screen before it switches itself automatically off. For example if the sensor is broken it shows the word SENSOR and a triangle with an exclamation mark. You are right concerning the manual; we should put more attention to the start up conditions (this will be done in the next update). Warm regards, William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #18 August 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteOne concern I have with the argus is the user replaceable batteries. Convenient? Definitely. But does that also mean the power supply is less reliable? Hi Jason, The current CR 123 is as reliable as the other brand batteries in use. Don't understand me wrong any battery can fail. You must have a system in place that detects this well in time. William - my concern isn't so much with the battery itself as the connection to the battery. For dive computers, salt water doesn't work well with electronics, so if the user is careless in closing up the battery compartment, total loss can and will occur. For skydiving, that threat is restricted almost to the pond swoopers, but the unit is subjected to some g forces and hard landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrojanHorse 0 #19 August 1, 2008 Hi Jason, Can you tell me what your concern is about the g forces, hard landings and the relation with the batteries (and/or connection)? Thanks, William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
TrojanHorse 0 #10 July 29, 2008 QuoteOne concern I have with the argus is the user replaceable batteries. Convenient? Definitely. But does that also mean the power supply is less reliable? Hi Jason, The current CR 123 is as reliable as the other brand batteries in use. Don't understand me wrong any battery can fail. You must have a system in place that detects this well in time. The solution for the problem described was because the unit did not complete the self test (had nothing to do with the power supply). We all read in this forum about the recent incidents with AADs misfiring. The only advice given for a self test not completed is: don't jump it. In this case however, the Argus completed afterwards the self test at least two more times successful (after being switched off and on again). The screen can freeze due to a sudden change in air pressure during switch on. This is for the field a very rare event. During tests in the factory this happens more often as we have sudden pressure changes there all the time (part of the testing program). In such a case is a trouble shooting solution as unplugging and reconnecting the display for a few seconds the best, easiest and safe to do. More about the tests or the batteries you can find in our design and test report (please see link below) Warm regards, William Aviacom/ Argus http://argus-aad.connexeon.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=189&Itemid=45 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #11 July 30, 2008 QuoteThe screen can freeze due to a sudden change in air pressure during switch on. This is for the field a very rare event. During tests in the factory this happens more often as we have sudden pressure changes there all the time (part of the testing program). In such a case is a trouble shooting solution as unplugging and reconnecting the display for a few seconds the best, easiest and safe to do. Sounds like a firmware bug or something that should be solveable within firmware. Is there a firmware upgrade coming that should resolve this problem? It's all fine and good to say that unplugging the display should solve the problem, but if I open the reserve container to resolve the problem more quickly, I'm then going to need to find a rigger and pay for a repack or if I'm lucky enough to have the rigger who did my repack standing by, maybe he/she can open and close it without doing a full repack. Either way, not really convenient solutions. The other option of waiting several hours and hoping that it sorts itself out doesn't sound appealing to me, either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrojanHorse 0 #12 July 30, 2008 Hi Brett, QuoteSounds like a firmware bug or something that should be solveable within firmware. No firmware bug but protection. During the switch on process the unit is also for the first time calibrated. When during this process the varieties are too big in a very short period of time (we’ re talking about 20 seconds here), the unit will not continue its self test (after all it detected something unusual). QuoteIt's all fine and good to say that unplugging the display should solve the problem, but if I open the reserve container to resolve the problem more quickly, I'm then going to need to find a rigger and pay for a repack or if I'm lucky enough to have the rigger who did my repack standing by, maybe he/she can open and close it without doing a full repack. Let’s start that what happened here is a very rare event that hardly ever occurs in the field (this is the first time I heard of) and is a non issue. I knew about the freezing display from the factory where the units are obviously not packed in a container and is the reset easy to carry out. Here it happened for once in the field and even than the “problem” was able to be solved without opening the reserve container. QuoteEither way, not really convenient solutions. The other option of waiting several hours and hoping that it sorts itself out doesn't sound appealing to me, either. We do not hope something sorts itself out. We are a responsible company and this is also why I called immediately last Saturday to the dropzone to find out if it was what I already thought it was. William Aviacom/ Argus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #13 July 30, 2008 I gotta Say Trojan, and I mean this exactly how I say it, but comparitivly, the Argus really is putting on a good show. Frankly, I think it has balls to compete in a closed market where one AAD has had the market to itself since 1991, and comparitivly it's had a LOT less issues than some other new comers. I think people forget that Cypres has these issues too sometimes.... =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #14 July 30, 2008 QuoteNo firmware bug but protection. During the switch on process the unit is also for the first time calibrated. When during this process the varieties are too big in a very short period of time (we’ re talking about 20 seconds here), the unit will not continue its self test (after all it detected something unusual). Ok. I can see how the firmware has no way of knowing whether the variation is due to a faulty sensor or actual air pressure variation. Are there steps that users might take to avoid triggering a false error during the self-test? Things that I'm thinking might cause such a rapid pressure change are wind gusts, or placing weight or stress on some part of the rig or reserve container during startup. Thanks for the explanation. It's this kind of straightforward and open answer that I hope will see you go far in this community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrojanHorse 0 #15 July 30, 2008 Hi Brett, The unit reads during start up some unusual facts (in such a short time frame of 20 seconds). The cause can indeed be stress on the rig (it is after all just a cushion of parachute material and a lot of air that can be compressed) Wind gusts? Maybe a strong one can leave indeed enough vacuum after the drift. Strong turbulence can also be a cause. During start up the unit is extra sensitive, necessary to get an exact as possible calibration. During the skydive several filters avoid that (as you can have hundreds of unusual peaks on one jump) But at switch on, you want pure clean conditions for your settings. Warm regards, William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 262 #16 July 31, 2008 TrojanHorse's explanation about ensuring a clean calibration sounds logical and reasonable. So there isn't anything broken with the hardware. But there is a problem in that the user isn't given any clue on the display what is happening. And it sounds like the display doesn't just temporarily freeze while the unit keeps trying a little longer to get a good calibration. It sounds like it can essentially permanently freeze, the computer in an endless loop, not allowing the user to regain control without opening up the reserve pack. Sorry to say it but this is a problem with the design, even if it is a rare occurrence. At least some warnings in the manual about startup conditions might help avoid the problem and allow users to recognize it. (Where's the Control-Alt-Delete??) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrojanHorse 0 #17 July 31, 2008 QuoteIt sounds like it can essentially permanently freeze, the computer in an endless loop, not allowing the user to regain control without opening up the reserve pack. Sorry to say it but this is a problem with the design, even if it is a rare occurrence. At least some warnings in the manual about startup conditions might help avoid the problem and allow users to recognize it. The unit sensed a problem of extreme varieties during start up. This can be caused due to local conditions/ circumstances or there is indeed something wrong. If the unit remains in an endless loop we don’t want just any user to be able to reset it him/herself and eventually trying to bypass a potential danger. If a reset via the push on the button for 4-5 seconds doesn ’t work and disconnecting the remote control neither, in most countries a parachute technician, the unit has to be returned for inspection. The unit shows permanent errors on the screen before it switches itself automatically off. For example if the sensor is broken it shows the word SENSOR and a triangle with an exclamation mark. You are right concerning the manual; we should put more attention to the start up conditions (this will be done in the next update). Warm regards, William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 August 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteOne concern I have with the argus is the user replaceable batteries. Convenient? Definitely. But does that also mean the power supply is less reliable? Hi Jason, The current CR 123 is as reliable as the other brand batteries in use. Don't understand me wrong any battery can fail. You must have a system in place that detects this well in time. William - my concern isn't so much with the battery itself as the connection to the battery. For dive computers, salt water doesn't work well with electronics, so if the user is careless in closing up the battery compartment, total loss can and will occur. For skydiving, that threat is restricted almost to the pond swoopers, but the unit is subjected to some g forces and hard landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrojanHorse 0 #19 August 1, 2008 Hi Jason, Can you tell me what your concern is about the g forces, hard landings and the relation with the batteries (and/or connection)? Thanks, William Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
