Hook knife and reserve

[CMiller 1]

In reading the recent incidents thread about the premature reserve deployment over the tail, several people mentioned cutting the reserve risers with a hook knife. Is there some reason you would cut the risers, instead of the lines near where they attach to the risers? That would SEEM to me to be a lot easier…

[wmw999 2,132]

The main reason is because the risers, right next to the shoulders, will be easier to reliably find and cut when things are going to shit.

Try sitting in a hanging harness sometime with a couple of close friends spinning you and generally making your simulated canopy ride like a really scary and hairy malfunction.

Try to reach your risers, try to reach your lines, and imagine how long it'd take to cut. The double the time, because of the fact that if it ever happens, you won't be expecting it.

If you must cut something, cut it were it's moving around the least.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Another way to look at it....

There are four risers, they are easy to see, and grasp. A seven cell reserve has 32 suspension lines and two control lines. They may be hard to see and hard to reach.

Which makes more sense to cut?

Yes, from a purely economic view, if you survive the incident, replacing lines is probably cheaper than replacing the reserve risers....which are an integral part of the harness. However, this isn't an economic question... it is a question of survival.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[erdnarob 1]

BTW a 7 cell reserve has 16 suspension lines connected to the 4 risers (you have counted the cascades) but that's not my point. Under tension risers can be easily cut and they are just at few inches from your head. But another question is : where is the best place to have your hook knife you can reach fast and easy ? I have mine on the chest strap with its pocket inverted. Why? Because under tension my chest strap will be near my neck and pulling the hook knife "downward" will be easier.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[diablopilot 2]

I personally inspected the gear of a friend as well as talked to them about their incident in which they were forced to try to cut away their reserve using a hook knife. Fortunately for them the knife broke before they got through even one riser.

Think about what's going to happen as you loose one riser at a time.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DougH 270]

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In reading the recent incidents thread about the premature reserve deployment over the tail, several people mentioned cutting the reserve risers with a hook knife. Is there some reason you would cut the risers, instead of the lines near where they attach to the risers? That would SEEM to me to be a lot easier…

Try to deploy the main and pray.

Chances are things will go to shit before you completely free the reserve. I would rather have a partially inflated reserve, and a chance to deploy my main. Much better than a streamering reserve with two risers cut, and not enough time.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[chuckakers 370]

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I personally inspected the gear of a friend as well as talked to them about their incident in which they were forced to try to cut away their reserve using a hook knife. Fortunately for them the knife broke before they got through even one riser.

Think about what's going to happen as you loose one riser at a time.

Maybe you could explain this with a bit more detail. I don't get why it would be "fortunate" that the knife broke if the situation really warranted cutting the reserve off.

And yes, things will get wild when cutting one riser at a time, but if it's necessary to do, then why would you not do it anyway?

disclaimer: I assume you are talking about someone with a bad reserve out while the main is still in the container and usable.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[pilotdave 0]

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Think about what's going to happen as you loose one riser at a time.

Can't watch it right now, but I'm pretty sure this video has a good example of what a canopy connected by only one riser looks like... it's not pretty. http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1575

Dave

[airtwardo 6]

But another question is : where is the best place to have your hook knife you can reach fast and easy ? I have mine on the chest strap with its pocket inverted.

[CMiller 1]

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Think about what's going to happen as you loose one riser at a time.

Can't watch it right now, but I'm pretty sure this video has a good example of what a canopy connected by only one riser looks like... it's not pretty. http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1575

Dave

I can't really imagine that looking any worse then being stuck on the tail of an airplane.

[wmw999 2,132]

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I can't really imagine that looking any worse then being stuck on the tail of an airplane.

I can. You're not going down when you're stuck on the tail of an airplane.

But, that's probably the one time I might consider cutting my reserve off (by the risers). Because I'm not going down for at least the beginning part.

Sure hope I never have to find out.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Ion01 1]

This brings me to the question of is there any other reason for a hook knife to be used other than having your reserve attached to an airplane?
The only other thing I can think of is maybe if you are entangle in a canopy but are you really going to have time to cut it off with a hook knife before you have to deploy your reserve anyways?
(this is probably a noob question. )

[riggerpaul 1]

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This brings me to the question of is there any other reason for a hook knife to be used other than having your reserve attached to an airplane?
The only other thing I can think of is maybe if you are entangle in a canopy but are you really going to have time to cut it off with a hook knife before you have to deploy your reserve anyways?
(this is probably a noob question. )

Think CF (Canopy Formation).

[Scrumpot 1]

Also - although not likely, the thought / scenario:

- You've cut-away your malfunctioning main. It leaves nice and clean - YIPPEE!
- You pull your reserve. ...LINE-OVER MALFUNCTION! YIKES!!!

You can see the brake line that is offending, but you can't get it to clear. You're otherwise with no further action, about to spin all the way in. But... You've got a hook knife (again - back to YIPPEE! )

Cut the offending brake line (at the toggle, pull it down if you can to be sure and cut it there as close as you can) - and VOILA! ...Line-over now cleared.

You will need to steer by risers and plan a really good PLF, but with the above scenario and (presumably successful) use of the hook-knife, you've now at least saved your sorry arse!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[jacketsdb23 45]

I've always said I would cut a line on my main with a line over before cutting away - if it was easily identifiable.

That being said, if I had a line over on my current canopy - I probably wouldn't be able to cut a line spinning that fast

Heck I couldn't even clear line twists and a brake fire before 1800ft. So cutting that line would probably be even tougher.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[billvon 2,409]

>I've always said I would cut a line on my main with a line over before
>cutting away - if it was easily identifiable.

Derek tried that. He intentionally packed a lineover on a large canopy and tried to cut it. He was unable to.

Now, this was a guy who was a rigger and an AFF-I, who knew beforehand which line it would be, and was prepared for it - and purposely chose a canopy that wouldn't spin up fast. Given that, I'd say the odds of success for such an attempt are rather low.

[BUBLHED 0]

Never had a line over don't really want one.
But aren't 99% of them the steering lines wrapped over ? Then cutting the line just above the toggle should be easy,right? Why waste time looking for a particular line when cutting just above the toggle will release all the steering lines on that side at once? Unless just one or two of the steering lines are over, but even then would cutting the brake line at the toggle release the pressure enough to allow the canopy to fully inflate?

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[jsaxton 0]

I've seeen a lineover fly straight. Ask Cornholio he has the video.

[billvon 2,409]

>But aren't 99% of them the steering lines wrapped over ? Then cutting the
>line just above the toggle should be easy,right?

Well, like I said, Derek tried it (it was a steering line) and he couldn't do it. You might have better luck. But I STRONGLY recommend you try it yourself on a canopy with a big main and a tertiary before deciding that it's a good idea to try during a real mal.

>but even then would cutting the brake line at the toggle release the
>pressure enough to allow the canopy to fully inflate?

Depends on the canopy. Some canopies will not fly with 'free' brake lines, as a few jumpers at Bridge Day discovered. And of course if you accomplish that, you will initially be spinning in the _other_ direction.

[BUBLHED 0]

Hopefully I never have to try it myself. I personally would chop a main but a reserve with a line over I'd try anything I could to fix it before experiencing sudden deceleration syndrome.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[diablopilot 2]

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disclaimer: I assume you are talking about someone with a bad reserve out while the main is still in the container and usable.

I am.

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Maybe you could explain this with a bit more detail. I don't get why it would be "fortunate" that the knife broke if the situation really warranted cutting the reserve off.

What if it had broken after he got through 1 or 2 risers?

And yes, things will get wild when cutting one riser at a time, but if it's necessary to do, then why would you not do it anyway?

Based on talking with him, various other stories and my personal experiments with pre-planned breakaways including ones side and one riser breakaway I'm going to suggest that cutting 4 risers one at a time is FAR more difficult than people think.

I would probably land what I got, or take my chance with two out. It's not a cut and dry situation so who's to say if I'm right?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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>I've always said I would cut a line on my main with a line over before
>cutting away - if it was easily identifiable.

Derek tried that. He intentionally packed a lineover on a large canopy and tried to cut it. He was unable to.

Now, this was a guy who was a rigger and an AFF-I, who knew beforehand which line it would be, and was prepared for it - and purposely chose a canopy that wouldn't spin up fast. Given that, I'd say the odds of success for such an attempt are rather low.

I'd say it's hit or miss, as a fellow moderator of yours WAS able to hook knife the offending lined over control line on a slider up B A S E jump.

That said, I'd chop a line over that I couldn't clear without a knife on a main.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[CMiller 1]

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>I've always said I would cut a line on my main with a line over before
>cutting away - if it was easily identifiable.

Derek tried that. He intentionally packed a lineover on a large canopy and tried to cut it. He was unable to.

Now, this was a guy who was a rigger and an AFF-I, who knew beforehand which line it would be, and was prepared for it - and purposely chose a canopy that wouldn't spin up fast. Given that, I'd say the odds of success for such an attempt are rather low.

I think it was Tom Aiello who had a lineover on a base jump, and used a hook knife to clear it. It's doable.

[chuckakers 370]

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disclaimer: I assume you are talking about someone with a bad reserve out while the main is still in the container and usable.

I am.

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Maybe you could explain this with a bit more detail. I don't get why it would be "fortunate" that the knife broke if the situation really warranted cutting the reserve off.

What if it had broken after he got through 1 or 2 risers?

And yes, things will get wild when cutting one riser at a time, but if it's necessary to do, then why would you not do it anyway?

Based on talking with him, various other stories and my personal experiments with pre-planned breakaways including ones side and one riser breakaway I'm going to suggest that cutting 4 risers one at a time is FAR more difficult than people think.

I would probably land what I got, or take my chance with two out. It's not a cut and dry situation so who's to say if I'm right?

Good observations. Paradigm shift - use a metal handled knife.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[diablopilot 2]

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Good observations. Paradigm shift - use a metal handled knife.

Believe me, I do.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.