Helping Broken Jumpers..

[marks 0]

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Those were just examples of charities. I gave to the tsunami fund right after it happened.

And FYI, I'm desperately trying not to get personal here, so please don't entice me to.

It's ONLY money. a small peice of paper wich only has value because you believe in it. the ROOT of all evil.

[kelel01 1]

Thank you. That was very philosophical.

[Bolas 5]

[preacher voice]
And I can rid you of all your eeeeevvvvviiiiiilllllll!!!!
[/preacher voice]

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Girlfalldown 0]

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Point us in the direction of the $50/mo plans please.

Go to www.ehealthinsurance.com There are lots of plans for $40 a month. The deductible is high but it's still a lot lower than the price of a surgery.

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(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

[jenfly00 0]

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I feel the same way about single parents skydiving, but I won't let my narrow (perhaps) way of what I feel is responsible/irresponsible keep me from helping those in need.

Assuming that's directed at me since you replied to my name, my children have a very active father in their lives and we have joint custody.

In addition, nowhere did I ever say I wouldnt help one of my friends in need.

Yes and no. Yes in that I was responding to what I considered to be your overly narrow view of life and what is and is not irresponsible. No, in that I had no idea you were a single mom.

Perhaps I misinterpreted. I assumed that anyone took the time to express "I think it's irresponsible for people to skydive without insurance and without savings set aside for a back-up plan. Sorry if I sound harsh." would be unsympathetic and unwilling to help.

Of course, you also didn't say if you would help a skydiver in need, either.

Jen

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[nael 0]

If any of my friends needed help I'd give it to them. Dont you think lying in a hospital bed in LOTS of pain is lesson enough for them?

I dont care if the mistake was theirs or not, even if they had been warned, I couldnt just sit back and do nothing knowing my friend could really use my (monetary) support.

As for the insurance issue. If you have private health insurance in Australia you pay a lot more for your hospital stay/surgery than you do if you tell them you dont have insurance. I have insurance, but if I'm admitted to hospital there's no way I'm telling them I've got insurance.

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[jwn 0]

if you give them money it is theres to do with as they choose. food may be more important than alcohol to you but to a person in the advanced stages of alcoholism, food is life it is very possible that they would die with out alchol, if not provided medical treatment during detox. if you choose to help someone do it with open hearted kindness not looking for rewards from others.

[flyclearjohn 0]

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disadvantaged children

Most of the money to any of those organizations NEVER gets anywhere near the Children.

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tsunami victims

Most Charities will not even accept money anymore for that. They ended up with way more than they needed and most of that will get eaten up by corrupt Government officials and Charity Overhead.

I kinda prefer the good old Hand the cash to someone you know truly needs it. If they Blow it something silly like medical Bills or Prescription Drugs or something stupid like that.. Well Never do it again.
But I would think that someone who absolutely NOTHING and cannot walk, muchless work, Might.. Just Might spend the money on Food before they handed it over to the Doctors.

Seriously.. If you have a friend that needs help, Help them if you can, However you can. We all do Stupid Shit. We learn and we move on. Fortunately when things are at their worst, most of us have friends who just might give the boost needed to get going again.

Thankyou (and Jan) for your comments. People give money to organizations and not directly to those in our family (not quotes around family with me. Skydivers are my family) in need. The only guess I have is that "those people" are driven by what society dictates and not intrinisically motivated.

Over the years, I've contributed money (no big deal, I've got far more than I need), time and effort to help my family members in need and will continue doing so without the harsh mainstream type judgments I read here.

John

[flyclearjohn 0]

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Go to www.ehealthinsurance.com There are lots of plans for $40 a month. The deductible is high but it's still a lot lower than the price of a surgery.

Great resource for insurance, thanks.

The prices are substantially higher than you mention, however and I could'n find ANY for $40/mo.

For me (Florida, non-smoker) , the cheapest was $300/mo. For an 18 y/o, the range was $60 - 140, with HUGE deductibles, 20% co-pay and frequently no coverage for office visits. Despite that, perhaps some who considered insurance a budget breaker could find a relatively inexpensive plan here.

I did find one for $37/mo ...if you are an 18 y/o non-smoker living in Paduca, Kentucky. :)

John

[flyclearjohn 0]

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If any of my friends needed help I'd give it to them. Dont you think lying in a hospital bed in LOTS of pain is lesson enough for them?

I dont care if the mistake was theirs or not, even if they had been warned, I couldnt just sit back and do nothing knowing my friend could really use my (monetary) support.

As for the insurance issue. If you have private health insurance in Australia you pay a lot more for your hospital stay/surgery than you do if you tell them you dont have insurance. I have insurance, but if I'm admitted to hospital there's no way I'm telling them I've got insurance.

Strange, it's just the opposite here. A typical hospital bill sent to an insurance company for $30,000 will typically be charged three times that amount if you are self-pay.

John

[jtval 0]

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In my country you need to have an accident insurance (if you work it is paid by your employer) to skydive.
At our DZ it is also highly recommended to be member of www.rega.ch because it only costs around 25$ a year and covers you for helicopter flights to the hospital (which we automatically call if your back hurts...)

ok that kicks ass but in my country you are shiunned for doing such things. no insurance comany that I called would insure you if you are a skydiver/pilot.

Im in the military so I lucked out

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[skinnyshrek 0]

dude i am suprised also. I will help out you know that. Reading most of these posts, unbelievable. If you all stepped back and read properly you would see Jay is not looking to help with insurance. Its to help with food and shit like that. Hell, for all the women who have been abused, fuck them they should of had savings. All the people hit by automobiles. Fuck them to. What about the veterans who come back and have no money. We don't need to help them either. The JFTC, shouldn't insurance or the goverment help there not my responsibility...Where does it end..I agree with all of you about no insurance but to start trashing someone who wants to help out a friend with food and some bills . Well, i for one will be giving money to either one. They can choose what to do with it. I am lucky in the fact i have 100% insurance. And both are my friends. So, sorry you all feel that way. Glad i don't

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[livendive 8]

I'm responding to you simply because you started the thread and I don't want to single anyone out. All I wanted to say is that I can't believe people are arguing about charity.

If you're a giver, cool. If you're not, that's cool too. If you do donate, give to whom you see fit and don't bitch about who others give or don't give to...that's their business. It's fucking charity for pete's sake!

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skinnyshrek 0]

Amen to that. And people you think when you give to charities 100% goes there..If you don't want to give then don't. Don't bash someone because they don't have insurance. I'd also like to see what policies you all have on your automobile. my wife works for progressive. Do you know how many people get hit by people with the minimum amount of insurance. So what then. Fuck them too...No take them to court and have a judgement on there file..wooooooooo...I was alwayss brought up to help people. Most of us are fortunate with either work or financially that we can afford insurance. So the bottom line here is if you don't have any don't leave your house. Stay in doors, have no friends and wait for god to come knocking...On another note. Jerry just showed up at the DZ. He's doing great. he doesn't want any charity or nothing. So save your money guys!!! Anyways, i've said enough. I am glad i know who my friends are.

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[Girlfalldown 0]

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Go to www.ehealthinsurance.com There are lots of plans for $40 a month. The deductible is high but it's still a lot lower than the price of a surgery.

Great resource for insurance, thanks.

The prices are substantially higher than you mention, however and I could'n find ANY for $40/mo.

For me (Florida, non-smoker) , the cheapest was $300/mo. For an 18 y/o, the range was $60 - 140, with HUGE deductibles, 20% co-pay and frequently no coverage for office visits. Despite that, perhaps some who considered insurance a budget breaker could find a relatively inexpensive plan here.

I did find one for $37/mo ...if you are an 18 y/o non-smoker living in Paduca, Kentucky. :)

John

You're funny. I'm 33 and I live in SF and I could find quite a few plans for $43 and up. Try again. I'm not making numbers up out of my ass. I went to the site and plugged a bunch of different ages and zips in.

I also said the deductibles were high.

I'm curious as to how old you are. I just went back and typed in a Florida zip for me and came back with many under $100 a month. I typed in an age of 50 and found the lowest to be around $150.

Anyhoo I still think it's better to pay a $3500 deductible and 20% of the surgery costs than it would be to pay for a 100K or more surgery. Don't you?

edited for typos (bet I didn't get them all)

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(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

[livendive 8]

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(Do not, I repeat DO NOT take my posts seriously)

Not even that one?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[flyclearjohn 0]

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You're funny. I'm 33 and I live in SF and I could find quite a few plans for $43 and up. Try again. I'm not making numbers up out of my ass. I went to the site and plugged a bunch of different ages and zips in.

I also said the deductibles were high.

I'm curious as to how old you are. I just went back and typed in a Florida zip for me and came back with many under $100 a month. I typed in an age of 50 and found the lowest to be around $150.

Anyhoo I still think it's better to pay a $3500 deductible and 20% of the surgery costs than it would be to pay for a 100K or more surgery. Don't you?

edited for typos (bet I didn't get them all)

I'm ancient ...and I need to move to San Francisco for health coverage apparently. Don't know how I screwed up the search. Cheapest for me would be $200/mo for these minimal coverage policies. I actually pay $1452/mo (over $17,000/yr) for my medical coverage ...and that's without disability coverage as I don't need that financial umbrella.

Would I recommend the insurance for young skydivers with no home ownership or other real assest? Maybe.

For a young adult, addicted to skydiving, $50-100 dollars a month is a big bite and they still have about $25,000 to pay based on $100,000 bill (assuming the hospital was within the PPO or network provider plan { you'd be amazed what they don't cover in a hospital stay}). If not, you would be stuck for over $50,000 (might as well be a million), so I can see where a young kid would pass. Would I be morally outraged at the hospital writing off the 'self-pay' ...not a bit.

Nobody here talked about paying medical bills, however. They were talking about food and other necessities following an injury. They could have medical insurance up the yazoo, covering 100% of medical expenses for a serious injury and would still be unable to work, pay rent, buy food or keep the utilities connected ...if the morally uptight skydiver attitudes about lack of responsibility were common.

Again, thanks for that greak link. Perhaps it will aid people in some reasonably affordable health care.

[Lindsey 0]

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And I don't think that anyone here thinks these people have an "expectation" that people will pay off their bills for them . . . but I think that's where it would lead.

What's great is that you don't have to give anybody anything. What's yours is yours to do with as you please. When I give what is mine, it's because I want to. Money is an easy thing to give. While money can make your life easier, it's virtually, in itself, meaningless. If I have some cash on hand that I really don't NEED and that same amount of cash can make a dramatic difference to a friend, then there's no question of what to do with that cash. It's much better spent where it will make a dramatic difference, imho.

Then there are people who are forever looking for somebody to pick up their slack. I'll keep what's mine in those circumstances. But there's no sense getting bent out of shape about it. What's mine is mine. I can choose what to do with what's mine. But I also believe in "what goes around comes around." I think that being generous is one of the greatest lessons we can learn.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[d_squared431 0]

You have to look at the future and ask yourself if I get hurt, or sick, or etc will I be okay. Have I done what I need to before hand so I am not imposing on others. Hopefully most people do this. There are those who don't and they don't see the type of burden they put their friends and family. I am all for helping someone out as long as they have attempted to help themselves.

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TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[livendive 8]

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However, most everyone I know who works at dropzones can't afford insurance and jump for a living. Is it irresponsible of them? Not really. They don't make enough money to eat sometimes let alone pay for insurance.

When they interviewed Clint Clawson in Parachutist magazine they asked him about his AAD. His answer was "I can't afford one." Probably the same thing with insurance too.

This thread is about broken jumpers, not broke jumpers. Get it straight.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[RhondaLea 3]

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I read this thread and it breaks my heart to see the high-horsed, judgmental responses. Skydivers are my family and I will not turn my back on them. I can handle (not like, but accept) the tandem factory, everybody trying to figure out more ways to make money off of skydivers, but this I just don't understand at all.

John

I'm with you.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[flyangel2 2]

Ronda, please don't take some of the post in this thread wrong. I feel for any one that gets hurt. What I'm upset about is the people that continue to jump and don't have any kind of insurance. I have accident insurance with Mutal of Omah, and it only cost about $40 a month. Yes, it covers me skydiving, snowboarding, hiking, and anything else I do that will cause me to break some thing in my body.

If people are putting themselves in a situation where they might get hurt, they need to make sure they are protected. IMO doing any high risk sport without insurance, is like jumping without a reserve.( except for you base jumpers)

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Girlfalldown 0]

Hey this thread is over 6 months old which makes it null and void now!

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(Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.)

[RhondaLea 3]

Y'know, I only remember jumping a few times without insurance. Most of the time I was jumping (even when I was working for the dz), I had a pretty good health plan. It even paid for my one skydiving-related accident that required a hospital visit.

But the judgment that people should have insurance isn't the same discussion as the one about what we do for our skydiving family when the shit hits the fan, and mixing the two discussions just isn't right.

There are a lot of people--especially those who have been in the sport for a long time--who are pretty disconnected from the "real world." We did a benefit for one of 'em here in DeLand a few years ago, and I think we raised nearly $50k. In my mind, with what the beneficiary of that largess has done for and within the sport over the years...well, I figure he earned it.

Some people pay forward, some pay back. You never know what outcomes will be.

Me, I've been in a couple of situations where I've felt compelled to donate the grocery money. The reason for that is the person who would benefit from that money was in a whole lot worse situation than me. Or there was a child left fatherless or motherless. Or...something. Once I won a sizable sum in a 50/50 benefit for a dead skydiver's child. The amount I won was almost the exact amount I was short that month. It was hard to explain to my daughter why I donated that money back to the fund for the half-orphaned kid, but in the end, she seemed to understand my reasoning. And at the end of that month, I ended up not being short after all. Funny thing.

I don't routinely give to charity. I buy coupons for the food bank at the grocery store because it's local and it feels right. Otherwise, I give when it strikes me that giving is worthwhile, and I don't stop to ask myself if someone had insurance or if they are worthy or if they did enough to protect their own interests, because the fact is that as we go through life, we all get into places where it seems like there's nowhere to go. And when that happens, one hand reaching out can be the difference between life and death.

And then, too, there's karma. Because what I've found is that people remember the strangest things. And when the shit hits your own fan, you may find yourself surprised by who remembers something you did so long ago that you don't even remember it yourself. Or it may just be that because you are the sort of person who gives when there's need, you find that you are given when you're needy.

I've had some really bad years in my life, but I've never gone hungry, and I've never gone without anything I've really needed, even if I've had to do without things I've wanted. But if having things I want means neglecting someone who has touched my life--for whatever reason--in a time of need...well, I 'spect I'd never enjoy it much anyway.

I don't really understand how it all works. All I know is that if it feels right to me, I give. And the circumstances that surround the need are irrelevant.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[flyangel2 2]

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But the judgment that people should have insurance isn't the same discussion as the one about what we do for our skydiving family when the shit hits the fan, and mixing the two discussions just isn't right.

I agree.

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I've felt compelled to donate the grocery money.

More then once I've given a grocery card to a fellow skydiver that was in need.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was trying to say that people need to take the responsibility of getting insurance so they can take care of medical bills.

Sure, there is always other things that need to be taken care of when the person is laid up, and I'm one of the first to help those. I just don't understand the ones that have no insurance to cover bills, and then expect everyone to take care of them.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey