Helping Broken Jumpers..

[Thanatos340 1]

How do you feel about helping out or raising money for a Broken Jumper who is unable to work?

See this thread

I can definitely see both sides of the argument but when it comes down to it, I have no problem helping out a friend who made a mistake (even if they had been warned first). I see no need to make sure they suffer even more for their stupidity. Especially if it was the first time.

This isnt about being Noble, It is about helping out a friend who needs help.

[kelel01 1]

I agree with Ian.

And if you skydive uninsured, don't ask me for a penny if something happens. Sorry if that's cold, but if you can't afford health insurance (and disability, for that matter), you CAN'T AFFORD TO SKYDIVE.

I'll "help pay" for your mistake when I go to the hospital and pay $30 for a Tylenol.

If you at least have insurance, I'll be MUCH more likely to help you, even if you made a mistake you had been warned against.

[skymama 35]

I think it's irresponsible for people to skydive without insurance and without savings set aside for a back-up plan. Sorry if I sound harsh.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[marks 0]

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don't ask me for a penny if something happens.

nobody is asking for anything!

the only thing i heard him ask for was "forgivness"

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I think it's irresponsible for people to skydive without insurance and without savings set aside for a back-up plan. Sorry if I sound harsh.

me too, but shit happens.

[kelel01 1]

Which him?

And YOU'RE asking for something. Kevin and Jerry aren't asking, but someone else is.

[kelel01 1]

Also, maybe nobody is asking in this case, but I've seen quite a few threads like "Please donate to this family, b/c the mom didn't have health insurance and got hurt skydiving." It's not necessarily specific to this situation.

[piisfish 135]

In my country you need to have an accident insurance (if you work it is paid by your employer) to skydive.
At our DZ it is also highly recommended to be member of www.rega.ch because it only costs around 25$ a year and covers you for helicopter flights to the hospital (which we automatically call if your back hurts...)

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[skymama 35]

What are your friends' injuries?

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Thanatos340 1]

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I think it's irresponsible for people to skydive without insurance and without savings set aside for a back-up plan. Sorry if I sound harsh.

I agree with you. But if some one is Busted up badly doing something stupid, Does that mean we should completely turn our backs on them?

The old Tough Love, Gotta teach them a Lesson mentality just doesn’t work for me when I see that know they made a mistake and in the mean time are unable to support themselves. I have no problem helping them get back on their Feet.

I guess I am just a Sucker who is willing to help out a friend when they are down.

Now if they do it again… Fuck em.

[ScubaSteve 0]

I am fully insured (health and disibility) and my health care refused to pay for an injury. Do you know of special insurance that will cover avaition activity for healh and disibility?

[kelel01 1]

No, but check with an agent in your area. There are all sorts of individual policies available that I don't know about. I work in group benefits.

[pyke 0]

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I can definitely see both sides of the argument but when it comes down to it, I have no problem helping out a friend who made a mistake (even if they had been warned first). I see no need to make sure they suffer even more for their stupidity. Especially if it was the first time.

I can defintely see both sides of the argument as well - but I have to lean towards the side of "you should be able to afford to make mistakes if you want to play in our world."

Understand where I'm coming from - I jumped when I was unemployed...and nearly had a couple of accidents. It taught me a lesson....don't take risks when you can't afford to. When I femured in (completely accidental) - I was only JUST on health insurance...much like Jerry - and it was a true blessing in disguise. Now I'm more experienced with my skills...and I know what risks to take & when...and when I really can't afford to take any - I make damn sure I just land safely. It's really cool to WALK... - trust me!!

I know, from his own lips, that Jerry knew that when he didn't have insurance - he thought about it on every jump and didn't take unnecessary risks. FORTUNATELY, when something happened to him - he did have health insurance. Did he take an excessive risk even though he shouldn't have, and was warned not to - YES. But, he could afford it, and now he is on his way to a speedy recovery (doesn't make it right still). Do I hold it against him, no - not in the slightest. If anything - I wish he had listened to those warning him.

Kevin is a different story. He relied on his health to function at his job. Now that he is busted up - he can't work, and he didn't have insurance. So, he is in a much worse position than Jerry - but no different. He was warned not to do risky stuff at his experience level - and opted to not heed warnings. Again - I feel bad that he is hurt - but I see both situations as brought on by one's own choices/ego/actions. There's a reason the saying still stands...There's no such thing as an old, bold skydiver.

There are other jumpers out there - some that I hope read this thread before it's too late - who feel that after 20 jumps on a 150, they're ready for a 135...and then shortly thereafter they move to a 120 - all with less than 200 Total Jumps!!!. COUNTLESS warnings against these actions fall upon deaf ears. Is it ego, or ignorance? I feel it's both...but certainly your life is more precious than that, isn't it??!!

There's a reason people with 2000 jumps are swooping...and those with 200 aren't (or shouldn't). Follow the advice of your more experienced jumpers....LISTEN CAREFULLY...all of them will tell you a story of when they let their egos overshadow their experience - and they learned their lesson.

Take it ssslllooowww people - I say again....

IT'S REALLY, REALLY COOL TO WALK!!!

psa over.

Kahurangi e Mahearangi,
Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic

[Thanatos340 1]

Are you saying that you would not buy a few jello shots for $1 a piece if the money was going to help out Jumper who got hurt?

Noone is asking anyone to "GIVE" anything. We were just saying that any money made off jello shots or Games would go to help out someone who Fucked up and needs a little help getting back on their feet.

I agree it was Stupid of them to jump without insurance, It will not happen again. Now is it wrong for us to try to help them out a little?

[kelel01 1]

It's not wrong, but I would rather the money go to something else, like JFTC. But now knowing Jerry's situation, I would be much more willing to help him out.

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It's not wrong, but I would rather the money go to something else, like JFTC. But now knowing Jerry's situation, I would be much more willing to help him out.

maybee skydive atlanta should have a fundraiser then!

[Thanatos340 1]

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I would rather the money go to something else, like JFTC

In this case, you will have a choice.

Neither of these guys have ever asked for anything.
I have never asked for anything for Jello shots in the past (Other than the occasional Boobie Flash!!) but I see a Friend (Kev) who Fucked up, Did something Stupid, Learned from it and now need a little help until they can start working again.
so Everyone will have a Choice when they donate money as to where it will go. (JFTC or the Busted Jumpers Fund)
In return they get the Best Damn Jello Shots on the planet!!

My personal decision will be based on who NEEDS it the most, not who Deserves it the most.

[kelel01 1]

Just so we're clear, I donate to lots of things, but I am free to pick and choose what I feel are worthy causes.

Doesn't mean I have to organize something. I'm not that . . . well, organized. I just give where I can, as long as it's something I believe in.

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[kelel01 1]

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My personal decision will be based on who NEEDS it the most, not who Deserves it the most.

You must be more of a liberal than I am.

[flyangel2 2]

IMO, I don't help skydivers that don't have insurance. They were not being responsible enough about getting some insurance. Why should I take on the responsibility to help them?

It is possible to get only accident insurance; it just takes some time to find the one that will work best for the jumper’s budget.

I live on a budget, as a single mom raising two boys, and have had to deal with a number of cancer treatments, if I can budget, other people can budget.

If you want to help out your friend there are other things you can do. Buy some groceries and take them over, cook some things up that only need to be zapped in a microwave. Go down to the phone company and pay his bill.

Now, about donations for JFTC. The money goes to City of Hope. Do you think these women going through breast cancer would have wished that they got cancer? Some of that money also funds research to prevent cancer. The money you donate towards JFTC could save your mom, g/f, wife, aunt, sister, or daughter's life. Besides a warm feeling, what do I get when I donate to a skydiver that wasn't responsible? With JFTC, it's a 501C and I can write that money off on taxes.

Your friends need to go to the hospitals and the state that they live in and see what they can do to help them. Hospitals will put you on payment plans, and the state can work out some kind of assistants, like with food stamps. But, they are going to have to do some work to get that stuff. It won't be just handed to them. Lots and lots of paper work.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Thanatos340 1]

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You must be more of a liberal than I am

I guess I owe Beer Now because I have NEVER been called a Liberal before.

You are talking to someone who is slightly to the right of Attila the Hun on the Political Spectrum..

But I don’t mind helping out a Friend from time to time. Whether they deserve it or not.

[kelel01 1]

I figured as much, so I thought that might sting.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I guess I am just a Sucker who is willing to help out a friend when they are down.

Now if they do it again… Fuck em.

No one's saying don't help them in ways you can. In fact the only reason I posted was I saw fundraiser proceeds suddenly wanting to be redirected from people who had no choice, to individuals who made a choice.

If you want to hold a fundraiser for Jerry and Kevin, go right ahead. Those who support your cause will contribute (and rightly so). What irritated me was the sudden desire to reallocate funds.

Bottom line is, in the current context, by doing so one group is being "punished" for the actions of another. It isn't right.

edit: Helping out isn't paying their bills. Take Jerry, if I thought he was going to end up on the street, I'd do what I could to help him. But there's no way in hell I'm footing the bill for anyone elses hospital bills. I'll help them where they NEED it, but I won't hand them stuff on a silver platter either (I realize neither of them are asking for this btw, it's just a general statement).

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Conundrum 1]

As much as I'd appreciate it if I got help from people if I got hurt, I certainly wouldn't ask for it or even expect anything at all, I'd just be happy to be alive.

To answer the question though: I hardly have enough money to support myself, let alone give my money to someone else.

[Ashtanga 0]

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I think it's irresponsible for people to skydive without insurance and without savings set aside for a back-up plan. Sorry if I sound harsh.

However, most everyone I know who works at dropzones can't afford insurance and jump for a living. Is it irresponsible of them? Not really. They don't make enough money to eat sometimes let alone pay for insurance.

When they interviewed Clint Clawson in Parachutist magazine they asked him about his AAD. His answer was "I can't afford one." Probably the same thing with insurance too.