I have a 16 year old daughter...

[VectorBoy 0]

Its just a little some odd question test . It means nothing!

Being a parent takes years and unfathomable reasources, time, money and major freakin parts of your sanity!!!!! Its not a ten item questionaire out of cosmo.
Its probably more important than "who" you pick to be and "how" you treat your S.O.

IE if my wife flips out and kills a few people they will just blame her hormones. If my kids grow up to be clock tower snipers or murdering flesh eaters my parenting skills will be first on the list of reasons why.

BTW I rated a 24 but that all means nothing until my daughters are never near the pole and old enough to know better and have earned ther PHD's so they can take of "dear old dad" and his Skydiving habit.

Admittedly slighty paranoid Glen

[RhondaLea 3]

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23. No kids. Sounds like a lot of people are hitting the middle. Is this a test that shows you who you are, or a test that's designed to make us feel good about ourselves?

It's very easy to tell what the right answer is.

There were a couple of "right" answers that I really didn't like.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[flyangel2 2]

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It's very easy to tell what the right answer is.

There were a couple of "right" answers that I really didn't like.

Right.

I hope that people didn't think that little quiz was the answer to "How to be a better parent." For me it was obvious which answers were the wrong answer. But I believe there are some parents that handle some of the situations that were described by "yelling" at their child or ignoring the situation.

What I was trying to show was there is a middle ground to raising children.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[RevJim 0]

21, though I have to admit, I would have chosen "none of the above" on a couple of those questions...

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[stoneycase 0]

yeah i know, everyone on here telling him not to run any tracking software beat the software when they were a kid yadda yadda yadda, therefore the software's pointless anyway. what's worse, the kid will just beat it and never trust her dad again, right? right??

seems to me there are more than just a few responses that suggest the exact opposite:

Merrick
As a parent that has faced this very situation let me say that matewatcher is a great keylogger (http://www.matewatcher.com/pages/1/index.htm).
We suspected my daughter of mischief online, so we downloaded this little tool, busted her, and now she knows that we can see everything she does on the computer.
....
but this didn't effect our relationship at all, she's a good kid, and she knows that what she was doing was wrong.

Airtwardo
Our daughter has had some problems in the past, we tried it the 'touchie feelie' way, and things became even worse, dangerously so...I finally said, fuck it...the way I was raised worked out pretty good, so it's back to basics...."How far" will I go to see that these children are kept safe and secure...even from themselves and their questionable judgement?...As far as it takes!...I've tapped phones, snooped rooms, shown up where I wasn't expected, read email and tracked IM's...
Oh my God you may say, those children have no privacy...Fucking right they don't, we're a FAMILY...we have no secrets...they can read MY mail anytime they want, and listen in on my phone calls 'till bored stiff.

LisaM
My son is quite young yet, but his computer is in a central location in the house. And my son has been told from very early on that his stuff is mine to go through whenever I want. It's just said matter-of-factly so he's never questioned it. I tell him it's my job as a parent to make sure he is safe and on the right track and sometimes and I have to do that how I see fit.

it goes on, but there no need to repost what has already been said. the point being made is this:

the parents in here, as one poster said, are looking at tracking software as an additional tool to help them, it's not an end-all-be-all.

i know it's hard, but we have to take off the "young person's" cap and put on the "parent" cap. young people/children now, more than ever, spend a large portion of their day on the computer and online. sitting back while a parent is having problems, telling them not to "invade their child's privacy" by tracking their online habits and computer use, to me, is hypocritical. you advocate being involved, you advocate listening, you advocate helping, being "real" with the child and developing trust. if we take the first statement as true(kids spend tons of time online), then the parents MUST be involved and aware of the child's computer/online habits, in order to be a good parent, even by your own standards.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[AlexCrowley 0]

Maybe you could expand on your level of technical knowledge.

I'm a parent, I'm also a computer security professional - my concern was more about him trashing trust with his child - her finding it vs him telling her about it. his ability to install and maintain it from a guy who thought that deleting the sent folder of an email client was 'too technical for him'.

Install keylogger on family machine and remove the PC in her room? at least that way he has reason to be tinkering with the machine when theres issues with the software or his retrieval of its logs.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[sd-slider 0]

Been through it twice....

All you can do is maintain a good line of communication and TRY and steer them in the right direction.

In my experience, the harder you pry/push, the more they rebel

I found that trying to relate or "Be Hip!" to their current situations would get a little more understanding and positive feedback.

BTW.......How much land do you have? I filled a 1/3 acre with bodies trying to "shelter" mine!!!!

Anvil Brother #69

Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk...
Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix!

[AlexCrowley 0]

red paint stain on the basement floor, next to your gun cleaning kit for when you take the boy aside for that little heart to heart as you continue your weekly firearm maintenance.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[sd-slider 0]

Your score is: 21 "Sergeant Slider"...I like that!

Anvil Brother #69

Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk...
Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix!

[sd-slider 0]

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when you take the boy aside for that little heart to heart

I pulled one of them aside to ask what his plans were for the "baby" that is due to be born in a couple weeks....his response.......

I haven't really thought about it much..I guess I'll figure something out EVENTUALLY. He then proceeded to question who the hell I was to be questioning HIS plans since I didn't even know him and also reminded me that I also was not his father and should mind my own fucking business....

If the daughter(23) hadn't been so close to term, I would killed the little FuckStick on the spot. I paced around him for a few seconds and tried to make some sense of it all before I headed back in the house (BTW - My fists were WHITE from the clenching and it took me nearly an hour to come down from the rush of wanting to squash his punk ass.) I gave him a "verbal coupon" with no expiration for an "extreme ass-whoopin'" after my grandson is born. I don't know what's more exciting, anticipating the birth or the thought deliverin' the ass-whoopin'(s) (dig's coin out of pocket...)

I'll let everyone know in a week or so when all the votes are in.

Anyway. Just goes to show, the more of a loser a dude is, the more the girls want him. Go figure.

Anvil Brother #69

Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk...
Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix!

[stoneycase 0]

haha, who knew the guy with the capt spalding avatar would be a parent...open mouth, insert foot.

i wouldn't consider myself a computer security "pro" it's not my primary job function. but it something i deal with on a day-to-day basis at work, and also something i occassionally get contracted for. i know enough to know that a pro knows far more about the enterprise level than i do. if you come to work everyday charged with keeping the network safe, then you, undoubtedly, have more sec knowledge than i do.

i like it, but i still advocate digging deeper to get the "sensitive information" doubt you'll get that on the family computer, you've got to let her feel secure in her own room, on her PC to really let the tracking software do it's job. you want to catch her talking about drugs, sex, and rock n roll - i wouldn't rely on the family pc to turn out that info.

if she shows up while he's on her machine, he should fake incompetence and complain that the internet isn't working and he's on her machine "because it's making funny noises". make sure to stick a drink or cup in the exposed CDROM though, that will provided the neccessary effect. clicking wildly with the mouse and screaming might help as well.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[skymama 35]

I told my kids about this thread. My daughter's immediate reaction was that she would be SO mad at me if I did something like that (adding the keylogger) and that she'd never forgive me. I then asked her what I should do if I was in this position and she said to trust that I've raised her well enough to make the right decisions.

Out of the mouths of babes.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[stoneycase 0]

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I told my kids about this thread. My daughter's immediate reaction was that she would be SO mad at me if I did something like that (adding the keylogger) and that she'd never forgive me. I then asked her what I should do if I was in this position and she said to trust that I've raised her well enough to make the right decisions.

Out of the mouths of babes.

but isn't that the point...he doesn't trust her at the moment. how could he possibly gamble that she'll make the right decisions if they are barely communicating? the fact that you're able to talk to your daughter about this situation, and get such an honest reply (i wouldn't have expected your daughter, regardless of age, to say any different) seems to suggest you have a good open line of communication with her. i don't think tumbler has that same advantage. it's an awful lot to ask for a parent to gamble and trust that his daughter will make the right decisions when he can't have an honest & open conversation with her to confirm that she's got a good head on her shoulders and is indeed capable of making the right decisions, isn't it?

one last thought, "trust that he's raised her well enough". well she's 16, i doubt he's done "raising her" yet. change her age to say 19 or something and perhaps the ballgame changes a bit. but i don't know many parents that are done raising their children at 16. so asking him to trust that he's raised her well enough seems like a lot to ask, especially when he isn't finished with his "raising"....out of the mouth of a 25yr old, can ya believe it?!

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[skymama 35]

Oh, my kids are just as bad as everyone else's about clamming up and not telling me everything! I just included her thoughts to let him know what his daughter's reaction might be. Judging from my daughter's reaction, I agree that secretly putting the keylogger on the computer might make things worse between them if she finds out about it and gets as angry as my daughter predicted. There's gotta be a better way.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[AlexCrowley 0]

I completely understand what you're saying and totally agree. If I simply wanted to find out what someone was saying that would be the norm. Excluding the technical aspects, think of using the family machine as more of being on notice. I also see privacy as something to be earned. I'll admit, I have a preteen so right now I'm speaking from a position of preparedness based on speaking to my friends with slightly older children rather than direct experience.

I spend some time on an ADHD forum where I read story after story of parents complaining that their child is tearing up their house - of course, the suggestion that they take some disciplinary action seems almost revolutionary - take their toys away? cut down their priveleges? unbelievable!

Kids rebel - the trick, I believe, is creating an environment where on the one hand they know that they can always admit their mistakes and that they know that all the boundaries created are for the right reasons.

So - back to the computer: bugging her computer? I dunno to me thats a huge violation of trust that psychologically seems to be far more damaging (Ok so its bad for me to lie and sneak around but its ok for my dad to bug my machine and sneak around). Whereas removing the personal machine and instead restricting use and online time to a family machine sets a very concrete environment that can be controlled and monitored without any moral blowback. It allows her to modify her online behavior and also lets her know that the parents are aware and concerned about the situation. And if she uses it when everyone else is out the spying software captures it all and she has no one to blame but herself - no huge therapy bills, no destroyed relationship with parents, she can blame herself instead.

I just base this of how I was raised and how the first 9 years of parenting seem to be working out. YMMV.

Although I like the 'funny noises' thing.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[AlexCrowley 0]

bingo.

If I'm lucky I'll hear that in 7 years too.

Of course, her seeing me cheat and hit people with metal chairs may set that back a little.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Ashtanga 0]

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There's gotta be a better way.

Well, there is always locking them in a cage but adoption parents just got in trouble for that so maybe it isn't wise.

Taking a lie detector test before bedtime might bring out the truth but then they will think you aren't trusting them.

If you tap the computer you probably need to place bugs in her phones, and maybe one implanted in her ear to here everything she does.

Perhaps you could hire a private detective to follow her around everywhere.

Better yet run for President and have the Secret Service follow her around everywhere.

[AlexCrowley 0]

I was gonna laminate my daughter for her 11th birthday and give her first boyfriend the solvent as a gift for her 25th birthday.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[cocheese 0]

His daughter is going to be 17 before this thread fades.
Hope it all gets worked out before then.

[stoneycase 0]

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haha, i bet not.

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Excluding the technical aspects, think of using the family machine as more of being on notice. I also see privacy as something to be earned.

now THAT is something i can buy into. 100%

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I spend some time on an ADHD forum where I read story after story of parents complaining that their child is tearing up their house - of course, the suggestion that they take some disciplinary action seems almost revolutionary - take their toys away? cut down their priveleges? unbelievable!

doesn't surprise me. standing in the grocery store checkout line i watched a mom buy her daughter about a dozen different pieces of candy just because the kid was whining and crying. seriously, rather than do anything she put each piece of candy the kid picked up into her cart. easier to just give 'er what she wants than discipline her. that, i am sure, will NOT make for a good future g/f or wife, lol...good luck to that poor soul.

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Kids rebel - the trick, I believe, is creating an environment where on the one hand they know that they can always admit their mistakes and that they know that all the boundaries created are for the right reasons.

see here is where i was expecting you to say, "the trick is to tie em up nice and tight in a closet, gag 'em real good too. that'll teach 'em to behave"

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removing the personal machine and instead restricting use and online time to a family machine sets a very concrete environment that can be controlled and monitored without any moral blowback. It allows her to modify her online behavior and also lets her know that the parents are aware and concerned about the situation. And if she uses it when everyone else is out the spying software captures it all and she has no one to blame but herself - no huge therapy bills, no destroyed relationship with parents, she can blame herself instead.

i like it. although i think you're being a bit idealistic with the "she'll have no one to blame but herself". looking back at lots of folks responses, i think some people might say that the affects, although reduced, will still be the same - she'll feel like her privacy was violated. bear in mind here, i don't consider any of the scenarios an unreasonable invasion of privacy. but we are dealing with a 16yr old girl, i can think of about a million different things on this planet that think more rationally than a 16yr old girl. one of them is my pet rock.

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I just base this of how I was raised and how the first 9 years of parenting seem to be working out. YMMV.

pops was in the army for 29+ yrs as an officer. when i didn't toe the line (which was basically all the time) there was no beating around the bush. i think his idea of mature conversation was forced manual labor. the conversation came in when he told me what to do, where to do it, and for how long. haha, i remember coming home drunk one evening in HS, he was pissed and i mouthed off. i spent about 3hours outside that evening, weeding the garden by flashlight before i could finally go in and sleep it off. he sat there and watched me the whole time, even pointed out the weeds i missed. now that is some quality parenting.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[AlexCrowley 0]

I should clarify. I dont mean a 16 year old blaming someone at the time it happens. I'm talking about the bitter 23 year old out of college who's had time to realize what an ass they were and now gauges their parents on how they dealt with them being an asshole teen. That's more the break in trust I'd be concerned about.

Who cares what a teenager thinks? they're all insane anyway.

As for the closet thing ..... well yeah, but thats usually on the second or third offence. On the fourth we dress em up in a bunny suit and go a-hunting with the dogs.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.