Unstable 8 #1 February 14, 2008 Riggers and Riggets, This has been on my mind for a few days since the "where Do I get a chest Container" post. What uses would a Chest Rating have? (Other than having the second for when one pursues a Master Riggers Certificate..) How many riggers now, with a Civilian Rating, are active and current in exercising their privileges of a chest rating? Are there certain military contracts that they fulfill? Why would a rigger, like myself, desire to pursue that rating? Granted I have a seat rating, and I use it regularly for Strong 304's and a few other seats that customers bring me, and so I can imagine that if one were to go for a Second rating, having a back+seat would be enough.... I'm just curious. I'm especially interested in hearing from chest rated riggers or any riggers alike....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 February 14, 2008 I know a couple of riggers that keep reasonably current with their chest rating by repacking vintage gear for friends with well maintained vintage gear.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #3 February 14, 2008 Quote I know a couple of riggers that keep reasonably current with their chest rating by repacking vintage gear for friends with well maintained vintage gear. That's a good point. Our local Master Rigger has a closet full of Paracommanders and Mid 70's era Chest mount reserves that he breaks out every spring. Can you think of other, perhaps more practical reasons? Do any Chest Riggers practice on current military Equipment, perhaps in the reserves? (No pun intended =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #4 February 14, 2008 I actually have 3 regular customers who have paracommander set-ups with the good old chest reserve, so I stay current and make alittle $$$ from my chest rating. I even had a save just a couple months ago. Someone actually used the shot and half capewells and cut away from a spinning PC and aired out the old LOPO belly reserve. It's actually all caught on video, it's pretty cool to watch. Now i do get much more use out of the seat rating from pilot rigs. If your thinking of a second rating thats the one thats will make you the most money other than the back rating obviously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #5 February 14, 2008 Quote I actually have 3 regular customers who have paracommander set-ups with the good old chest reserve, so I stay current and make alittle $$$ from my chest rating. I even had a save just a couple months ago. Someone actually used the shot and half capewells and cut away from a spinning PC and aired out the old LOPO belly reserve. It's actually all caught on video, it's pretty cool to watch. Now i do get much more use out of the seat rating from pilot rigs. If your thinking of a second rating thats the one thats will make you the most money other than the back rating obviously. Thanks. I have a seat rating, I actually packed a Strong 304 about 6 hours ago! I guess I'm tinkering around with the idea of getting a chest rating.... But I'm looking for some real uses. I'd be nice to have a few "vintage"customers, but AFAIK, that's about the extent of the usefulness of it......Anyone else use theirs?=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longtall 0 #6 February 14, 2008 Use mine for packing rounds for our annual water boogie. PC landings are so much easier on us nostalgia seekers ( old guys) when done into water." 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #7 February 14, 2008 QuoteAnyone else use theirs? For me its all vintage uses. No customers just my own gear. But that keeps me more than current with all my gear. Other than vintage, I can't really think of anything else it would be used for currently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #8 February 14, 2008 QuoteOther than vintage, I can't really think of anything else it would be used for currently. At some DZs, all the packers get chest ratings (since it's quick) so they can pack mains without a supervising rigger. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #9 February 14, 2008 QuoteQuoteOther than vintage, I can't really think of anything else it would be used for currently. At some DZs, all the packers get chest ratings (since it's quick) so they can pack mains without a supervising rigger. Dave >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they wanted to enforce the letter of the law, the FAA could insist on packers earning BACK type ratings, since most mains are worn on the BACK. But that is an old law that is not really worth enforcing. Originally it was meant to prevent the village idiot from packing for other people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #10 February 14, 2008 I have one because when I got it in 1985 there were still jumpers who only had conventional rigs. Not many but a few. The second rating to get WAS a chest. Also old SST's could be done with a chest. (debatable point) There were lots of chests and not very many seats so much easier to get the second rating on a chest. Later I got a seat packing one military rig 20 times because that's all we had available. Now I pack 20 or 30 seat rigs for warbird pilots. But I did a chest last fall. Pop top with a 24' modified by John Sherman in 1974. And no I really don't want anybody to use it. Dave DeWolf's solution to supervising packers is to run them through a quick course and test for a chest rating. Theory is any rigger can pack a main, doesn't say only a back rated one, and they can't get into too much trouble with a chest rating.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #11 February 14, 2008 So far I have packed 61 chests 361 seats and well over 3,600 back type parachutes. Most of those CHESTS were packed - under a United States Coast Guard contract - when I worked for Butler. Butler designed a specialized CHEST pack - including a life raft - for USCG C-130 sensor operators trying to stop smugglers. These days, I rarely pack more than one CHEST reserve per year. That is usually for an aspiring tandem instructor - doing an intentional cutaway - to complete his pre-levels. Strong Enterprises requires surviving one reserve ride before TIs are allowed to jump with some one strapped to their chest. Most of those 300-odd SEAT packs were packed while I worked for Butler and Para-Phernalia - the leading makers of SEAT-packs for Warbird, aerobatic, etc. pilots. These days I might pack a half-dozen SEAT packs per year. Usually in a mad rush the week before an aerobatic competition! Out of my 3,000 plus BACK type pack jobs, maybe a thousand are Pilot Emergency Parachutes. Again, mainly when I worked for Butler and Para-Phernalia. These days, I only repack a couple dozen BACK PEPs per year. IOW One day per month I dust off the long table and repack a few PEPs containing round canoopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #12 March 1, 2008 I wonder if this new BASE/Skydiving rig with a chest reserve might generate more chest reserve repack business for riggers? http://www.thebaser.com/base_r.phpThe choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #13 March 1, 2008 I don't think JumpShack's base rig will generate any significant increase in business for riggers. They really want the BaseR to be used with the Pop-Top. Let's face it, there are a lot of riggers that don't want to pack Racers. That doesn't mean that is the only reserve they are going to use with this system but I don't think this system is going to get that many BASE jumpers switching over for a system like this. Or for that matter being recommended for new BASE jumpers. I could be wrong on this but there are many great companies that only specialize in BASE equipment that I think people will have a hard time turning away from. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #14 March 1, 2008 QuoteAt some DZs, all the packers get chest ratings (since it's quick) How is it quicker? I'm sure you have to jump through the same hoops as getting a back (or a seat) right? 20 supervised packs and all the paper work and tests.Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #15 March 1, 2008 Quote How is it quicker? I'm sure you have to jump through the same hoops as getting a back (or a seat) right? 20 supervised packs and all the paper work and tests. Yeah, I agree. If done right, a chest rating takes just as much, if not more, than the other two ratings. I say more because most packers are not familiar with Round canopies at all. The only thing would be is if some DPRE decided it would be a good idea to lax his standards and more or less give a chest rating away.... and that's just sad..=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #16 March 2, 2008 I agree with you about disliking packing Pop-Tops. (It only took me a decade to learn how to pack Pop-Tops. Pop-Tops never made sense until I heard about ghost loops.) My fear is that some BASE-jumper will buy a new TSOed BASE container, but slap on the ugliest, rattiest, faded, frayed and filthy military-surplus chest pack - they can find - mis-matched to an early 1980s Phantom with an original wide diaper, no Kevlar reinforcement and packed by a rigger who cannot spell bromcreasol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #17 March 2, 2008 QuoteI have one because when I got it in 1985 there were still jumpers who only had conventional rigs. Not many but a few. The second rating to get WAS a chest. Also old SST's could be done with a chest. (debatable point) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is because the first (mid-1970s) SST reserve containers were direct copies of Poynter/Strong's original Pop-Top chest-mounted reserve. However, by the time they introduced the tapered SST Racer (circa 1979), they started to diverge. Now Racer Elites share no common patterns with the original chest-mounted Pop-Top reserve. Hah! Strong Para-Cushion seat packs have more in common with the original chest-mounted Pop-Top reserve! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beatnik 2 #18 March 2, 2008 I personally have no problem with pop-top, mainly because that is what I learned on. The first ten rigs I repacked were Racers. But after seeing other riggers and talking so many more, they aren't a favorite for a lot of people. I have the same fear as you do and these people still need to be properly trained on the emergency procedures. The pictures are the greatest so I can't tell where the cutaway handle is located. If they put it on the other side of the MLW where it is normally located on sport gear, it isn't going to be the easiest thing to find or locate if the need arises. They also mention that the reverse risers aren't recommended for skydiving. I am not a BASE jumper yet, but my understand for the reverse risers is primarily to prevent the locking loop on the risers from wearing out because of all the dragging that most do during packing. I think this is like what was going on when people started BASE jumping. They were using their skydiving gear and then some people started designing gear for that sport, now Jumpshack is trying to turn back the clock and is reverse evolving the gear. If people want to skydive with their BASE canopy, then they should do it with skydiving gear. Having this gear as a solution to be able to only carry one set of gear around on trips, like they mention is ridiculous. gear is designed for a specific reason this just seems like trouble to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Colson 0 #19 March 3, 2008 it looks like a center pull, and since it is a pop top, the pins are on the back of the container, so too is the handle.http://thebaser.com/gallery/Deland-jan-2008/100_1188 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BrianM 1 #20 March 3, 2008 Quote and packed by a rigger who cannot spell bromcreasol. Don't you mean bromocresol? "It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 561 #21 March 3, 2008 Thanks for correcting my spelling. Maybe senilility is setting in??? Or maybe I am selectively dumping from my memory some painful memories from the acid mesh era????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #22 March 3, 2008 Quote How is it quicker? I'm sure you have to jump through the same hoops as getting a back (or a seat) right? 20 supervised packs and all the paper work and tests. The reason that the Chest rating is quicker is simply the amount of time it takes to pack and close one. Usually about 20-25 minutes after you have done a couple. Another factor is that you can legally pack one without the Pilot Chute installed. The Navy still uses their reserves without the P/C to this day. The pack jobs can be done in a single day if someone reallly gets after it. Usually two days is the normal time frame though. .....and the second part is that there is no Oral test for an add-on rating, just the Practical test which consist of assembling, inspecting, and packing of the Chest Parachute. That usually is 1-2 hours depending on who you are. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Beatnik 2 #18 March 2, 2008 I personally have no problem with pop-top, mainly because that is what I learned on. The first ten rigs I repacked were Racers. But after seeing other riggers and talking so many more, they aren't a favorite for a lot of people. I have the same fear as you do and these people still need to be properly trained on the emergency procedures. The pictures are the greatest so I can't tell where the cutaway handle is located. If they put it on the other side of the MLW where it is normally located on sport gear, it isn't going to be the easiest thing to find or locate if the need arises. They also mention that the reverse risers aren't recommended for skydiving. I am not a BASE jumper yet, but my understand for the reverse risers is primarily to prevent the locking loop on the risers from wearing out because of all the dragging that most do during packing. I think this is like what was going on when people started BASE jumping. They were using their skydiving gear and then some people started designing gear for that sport, now Jumpshack is trying to turn back the clock and is reverse evolving the gear. If people want to skydive with their BASE canopy, then they should do it with skydiving gear. Having this gear as a solution to be able to only carry one set of gear around on trips, like they mention is ridiculous. gear is designed for a specific reason this just seems like trouble to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colson 0 #19 March 3, 2008 it looks like a center pull, and since it is a pop top, the pins are on the back of the container, so too is the handle.http://thebaser.com/gallery/Deland-jan-2008/100_1188 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #20 March 3, 2008 Quote and packed by a rigger who cannot spell bromcreasol. Don't you mean bromocresol? "It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #21 March 3, 2008 Thanks for correcting my spelling. Maybe senilility is setting in??? Or maybe I am selectively dumping from my memory some painful memories from the acid mesh era????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #22 March 3, 2008 Quote How is it quicker? I'm sure you have to jump through the same hoops as getting a back (or a seat) right? 20 supervised packs and all the paper work and tests. The reason that the Chest rating is quicker is simply the amount of time it takes to pack and close one. Usually about 20-25 minutes after you have done a couple. Another factor is that you can legally pack one without the Pilot Chute installed. The Navy still uses their reserves without the P/C to this day. The pack jobs can be done in a single day if someone reallly gets after it. Usually two days is the normal time frame though. .....and the second part is that there is no Oral test for an add-on rating, just the Practical test which consist of assembling, inspecting, and packing of the Chest Parachute. That usually is 1-2 hours depending on who you are. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
