Bears are not pets

[bill2 0]

I don't know if any of you heard about this one. The people who got killed sound like idiots. They forgot that mother nature can be a real bitch. Below is from the Anchorage Daily News.
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Wildlife author killed, eaten by bears he loved
KATMAI: Many had warned Treadwell that his encounters with browns were too close.


By CRAIG MEDRED
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: October 8, 2003)

Timothy Treadwell (Photo from "Among Grizzlies" )

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(Ron Engstrom / Anchorage Daily News)

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Click on photo to enlarge
A California author and filmmaker who became famous for trekking to Alaska's remote Katmai coast to commune with brown bears has fallen victim to the teeth and claws of the wild animals he loved.

Alaska State Troopers and National Park Service officials said Timothy Treadwell, 46, and girlfriend Amie Huguenard, 37, were killed and partially eaten by a bear or bears near Kaflia Bay, about 300 miles southwest of Anchorage, earlier this week.

Scientists who study Alaska brown bears said they had been warning Treadwell for years that he needed to be more careful around the huge and powerful coastal twin of the grizzly.

Treadwell's films of close-up encounters with giant bears brought him a bounty of national media attention. The fearless former drug addict from Malibu, Calif. -- who routinely eased up close to bears to chant "I love you'' in a high-pitched, sing-song voice -- was the subject of a show on the Discovery Channel and a report on "Dateline NBC." Blond, good-looking and charismatic, he appeared for interviews on David Letterman's show and "The Rosie O'Donnell Show" to talk about his bears. He even gave them names: Booble, Aunt Melissa, Mr. Chocolate, Freckles and Molly, among others.

A self-proclaimed eco-warrior, he attracted something of a cult following too. Chuck Bartlebaugh of "Be Bear Aware,'' a national bear awareness campaign, called Treadwell one of the leaders of a group of people engaged in "a trend to promote getting close to bears to show they were not dangerous.

"He kept insisting that he wanted to show that bears in thick brush aren't dangerous. The last two people killed (by bears) in Glacier National Park went off the trail into the brush. They said their goal was to find a grizzly bear so they could 'do a Timothy.' We have a trail of dead people and dead bears because of this trend that says, 'Let's show it's not dangerous.' ''

But even Treadwell knew that getting close with brown bears in thick cover was indeed dangerous. In his 1997 book "Among Grizzlies,'' he wrote of a chilling encounter with a bear in the alder thickets that surround Kaflia Lake along the outer coast of Katmai National Park and Preserve.

"This was Demon, who some experts label the '25th Grizzly,' the one that tolerates no man or bear, the one that kills without bias,'' Treadwell wrote. "I had thought Demon was going to kill me in the Grizzly Maze.''

Treadwell survived and kept coming back to the area. He would spend three to four months a summer along the Katmai coast, filming, watching and talking to the bears.

"I met him during the summer of '98 at Hallo Bay,'' said Stephen Stringham, a professor with the University of Alaska system. "At first, having read his book, I thought he was fairly foolhardy ... (but) he was more careful than the book portrayed.

"He wasn't naive. He knew there was danger."

NO PROTECTION

Despite that, Treadwell refused to carry firearms or ring his campsites with an electric fence as do bear researchers in the area. And he stopped carrying bear spray for self-protection in recent years. Friends said he thought he knew the bears so well he didn't need it.

U.S. Geological Survey bear researcher Tom Smith; Sterling Miller, formerly the Alaska Department of Fish and Game's top bear authority; and others said they tried to warn the amateur naturalist that he was being far too cavalier around North America's largest and most powerful predator.

"He's the only one I've consistently had concern for,'' Smith said. "He had kind of a childlike attitude about him.''

"I told him to be much more cautious ... because every time a bear kills somebody, there is a big increase in bearanoia and bears get killed,'' Miller said. "I thought that would be a way of getting to him, and his response was 'I would be honored to end up in bear scat.' ''

A number of other people said that over the years Treadwell made similar comments to them, implying that he would prefer to die as part of a bear's meal. All said they found the comments troubling, because bears that attack people so often end up dead.

RANGERS RETRIEVE REMAINS

Katmai park rangers who went Monday to retrieve the remains of Treadwell and Huguenard -- both of whom were largely eaten -- ended up killing two bears near the couple's campsite.

Katmai superintendent Deb Liggett said she was deeply troubled by the whole episode.

"The last time I saw Timothy, I told him to be safe out there and that none of my staff would ever forgive him if they had to kill a bear because of him,'' she said. "I kind of had a heart-to-heart with him. I told him he was teaching the wrong message.

"This is unfortunate, (but) I'm not surprised. It really wasn't a matter of if; it was just a matter of when.''

What led up to the latest Alaska bear attack, as well as exactly when it happened, is unknown. The bodies of Treadwell and Huguenard, a physician's assistant from Boulder, Colo., were discovered Monday by the pilot of a Kodiak air taxi who arrived at their wilderness camp to take them back to civilization. A bear had buried the remains of both in what is known as a "food cache.''

The couple's tent was flattened as if a bear sat or stepped on it, but it had not been ripped open, even though food was inside. The condition of the tent led most knowledgeable observers to conclude the attack probably took place during the daylight hours when Treadwell and Huguenard were outside the tent, instead of at night when they would have been inside. Most of their food was found in bear-proof containers near the camp.

Officials said the camp was clean but located close to a number of bear trails. Because of the concentration of bears in the Kaflia Lake area and a shortage of good campsites, however, it is almost impossible to camp anywhere but along a bear trail there.

EXTENDED THEIR STAY

Treadwell and Huguenard, who was in the process of moving from Colorado to Malibu to live with Treadwell, had last been heard from Sunday afternoon when they used a satellite phone to talk to Jewel Palovak. Palovak is a Malibu associate of Treadwell at Grizzly People, which bills itself as "a grass-roots organization devoted to preserving bears and their wilderness habitat.''

Palovak said she talked with Treadwell about his favorite bear, a sow he called Downy. Treadwell had been worried, Palovak said, that the sow might have wandered out of the area and been killed by hunters. So instead of returning to California at the end of September as planned, Treadwell lingered at Kaflia to look for her. Palovak said Treadwell was excited to report finding the animal alive.

PILOT CALLS IN TRAGEDY

What transpired in the hours after the phone call is unknown. The Kodiak pilot who arrived at the Treadwell camp the next day was met by a charging brown bear. The bear forced the pilot for Andrew Airways back to his floatplane.

Authorities said he took off and buzzed the bear several times in an effort to drive it out of the area, but it would not leave the campsite established by Treadwell and Huguenard. When the pilot spotted the bear apparently sitting on the remains of a human, authorities said, he flew back to the lake, landed, beached his plane some distance from the camp and called for help from troopers and the Park Service.

Interviews with sources who were on the scene provided this account:

Park rangers were the first to arrive. They hiked from the beach toward a knob above the camp hoping to be able to survey the scene from a distance. They had no sooner reached the top of the knob, however, than they were charged by a large brown bear.

It was shot and killed at a distance of about 12 feet. The Andrew Air pilot, according to Bruce Bartley of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, was convinced the large boar with the ratty hide was the same animal he'd tried to buzz out of the campsite. The boar was described as an underweight, old male with rotting teeth.

Authorities do not know if it was the bear that killed Treadwell and Huguenard. They were to fly to the site on Tuesday to search the animal's stomach for human remains but were prevented from doing so by bad weather.

After shooting that bear, rangers and troopers who had by then arrived walked down to the campsite and undertook the task of gathering the remains of the two campers. While they were there, another large boar grizzly went through the campsite but largely ignored the humans.

A smaller, subadult that appeared later, however, seemed to be stalking the group. Rangers and troopers shot and killed it.

"It would have killed Timothy to know that they killed the bears,'' Palovak said, "but there was no choice in the matter."

"He was very clear that he didn't want any retaliation against a bear,'' added Roland Dixon, a wealthy bear fan who lives on a ranch outside of Fort Collins, Colo., and has been one of Treadwell's main benefactors for the past six or seven years. "He was really adamant that he didn't want any bear to suffer from any mistake that he made. His attitude was that if something like this were to happen, it would probably be his fault.''

Bartlebaugh of "Be Bear Aware'' has no doubts that Treadwell loved the animals but believes the love was misguided.

"I'm an avid bear enthusiast,'' Bartlebaugh said. "It's the same attitude that I think Timothy had, but I don't want them (the bears) to be my friends. I don't want to have a close, loving relationship. I want to be in awe of them as wild animals.''

Palovak, Treadwell's associate, and Dixon take a different view.

"I think (Timothy) would say it's the culmination of his life's work,'' Palovak said. "He always knew that he was the bear's guest and that they could terminate his stay at any time. He lived with the full knowledge of that. He died doing what he lived for.''

"He was kind of a goofy guy,'' Dixon said. "It took me a while to get in tune with him. His whole life was dedicated to being with the bears, or teaching young people about them. That's all he ever did. It was always about the bears. It was never about Timothy. He had a passion and he lived his passion. There will be no one to replace him. There's just nobody in the bear world who studies bears like Timothy did.''

Dixon acknowledged Treadwell took risks with bears but dismissed as envious those who criticized his behavior .

[freeflir29 0]

HA HA.....what a dumbass. I feel sorry for the bears that were shot. It's not like it was their fault some IDIOT came into their house.

[bill2 0]

HA HA.....what a dumbass. I feel sorry for the bears that were shot. It's not like it was their fault some IDIOT came into their house.
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True, the bears paid the price for this idiot's lack of brains.

[lawrocket 3]

This guy would go right up to the bears (whom he'd named) and say, "I love you, Sowy" and such.

Apparently, they got a few minutes of the attack on tape, though only the audio was working. He sounds almost like those dudes who play with rattlesnakes. If they get bitten, they weren't true believers.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[skysquiffy 0]

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HA HA.....what a dumbass. I feel sorry for the bears that were shot. It's not like it was their fault some IDIOT came into their house.
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True, the bears paid the price for this idiot's lack of brains.

Actually, Mr. Treadwell was responsible for protecting these bears from poachers for many years. His research and writings alerted many to their plight and helped many people, especially children, respect them. His approach was controversial to some, but not necessarily wrong. It was a risk he chose to take in pursuit of conservation.

Anyone that takes their beliefs and embraces them takes the risk of succumbing to that which they admire.

Go to any whuffo forum and read the comments about any BASE or skydiving incident. You'd find similar "he deserved what he got" comments.

http://www.grizzlypeople.com/home.php

Would you have had the same comments about Diane Fossey if she had been attacked and killed by a mountain gorilla?

I do agree that it is incredibly unfortunate that 2 bears had to lose their lives.

[freeflir29 0]

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Would you have had the same comments about Diane Fossey if she had been attacked and killed by a mountain gorilla?

Yes....yes I would. I also think that to a FAR greater extent Roy got what was coming to him. At least the other two hadn't caged the animals.

[skysquiffy 0]

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Would you have had the same comments about Diane Fossey if she had been attacked and killed by a mountain gorilla?

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Yes....yes I would. I also think that to a FAR greater extent Roy got what was coming to him. At least the other two hadn't caged the animals.

You feel that Diane Fossey was a "dumbass" and an "idiot"?

I am in total agreement about Roy. I absolutely cannot stand wild animals in a caged environment. ESPECIALLY when they are there for no reason other than for entertaiment value.

I for one believe that if I want to see a wild animal, I go see it in it's environment. It's the sole reason I learned to SCUBA and I am aware of the risks when I do that.

[Kennedy 0]

Bears are wonderful pets. You can lay on them, admire their ferocity and big teeth....wait, no. That's after a successful hunt and the bear has become food for the hungry, income for the natives, and lateral income for hunt shops, guides, airlines, local authorities and hotels, and a rug for the left corner of a den.

Oh yeah, and some really tasty jerky, too.

Reminds me of that shark attack video I saw on the Disc/TLC/APL channel. 'Anatomy of a Sharkbite,' I think they called it. Some dumbass stood in waist deep water with hungry sharks just to prove they wouldn't attack a human. Well Gimpy is just now getting out of the hospital, I think. He no longer deserves whatever his name was. He shall hence forth be known as Gimpy.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Push 0]

There was a crazy guy who tried to land an airplane on the deck of a ship. A deck of a ship! How insane is that! He died. Stupid, eh?

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[Kennedy 0]

I'm sure this is an attempt at sarcasm. Well, would you feel better if I told you that you had hurt my feelings? Yep. So sad.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[bch7773 0]

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Go to any whuffo forum and read the comments about any BASE or skydiving incident. You'd find similar "he deserved what he got" comments.

I agree with you here. We get all pissed off at whuffos when they say skydivers deserve to die, so how can we call this guy stupid. Yeah, I know it wasn't exactly smart to walk up to bears without any type of protection, but neither is it exactly smart to jump out of planes.

you do have to admit the irony of this poor saps story. He gets close to bears to prove they are harmless, and that we shouldn't hurt them, yet he dies because bears can cause harm, and the rangers had to shoot 2 bears because of him.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Push 0]

Just pointing out that there are a lot of people that consider us just as crazy as this unfortunate soul is all.

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[happythoughts 0]

Maybe he interrupted the bear at a poor moment. The bear wanders off to find a secluded spot in the woods and... "Hey, I'm tryin' to take a dump here... a little privacy please?" It is a well known fact that bears do that in the woods.

[Kennedy 0]

Point taken, and [take note, I rarely have to say this] I apologize. You didn't deserve to get snapped at.

However, for me, the line between crazy-brave and friggin stupid has a lot to do with risk management. We have a lot, those guys [bear and shark] had just about none.

Hence, my interpretation of us as crazy-brave and them as friggin stupid.

I've said my piece, and now I'm off to get my piece.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Push 0]

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I've said my piece, and now I'm off to get my piece.

Have a good one

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[skysquiffy 0]

And let's not forget that the media report on his death is going to be inaccurate, sensationalized and skewed. About the only thing that can be taken as fact is that he and his g/f died and so did 2 bears. The latter being the most unfortunate IMO.

I actually know quite a lot about this guy. He didn't just "walk up to" wild bears. He NEVER wanted to "prove they were harmless". Bad reporting. There's a lot more to this than is being presented by the media. Go figure.

Personally I'm just surprised that so many people who have consistently seen how the media warps facts, or is just plain incorrect, are now taking what's said about this guy and his death as gospel.

[kevin922 0]

turns out it was all 'caught on tape'

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- The graphic sounds of a deadly bear attack in the Alaska wilderness were captured on tape, revealing a wildlife author's final, frantic screams as he tried to fend off the beast, authorities said Wednesday.

Trooper Chris Hill said the tape suggests a video camera was turned on just before Timothy Treadwell was attacked at his campsite. His girlfriend, Amie Huguenard, was later mauled to death by a bear. The recording is audio only, and the screen is blank for all six minutes.

"They're both screaming, she's telling him to play dead, then it changes to fighting back. He asks her to hit the bear," Hill said. "There's so much noise going on. I don't know what's him and what might be an animal.

"It's pretty disturbing. I keep hearing it in my mind."

The remains of Treadwell, 46, and Huguenard, 37, both of Malibu, California, were found Monday at Katmai National Park and Preserve on the Alaska Peninsula. Treadwell was known for approaching, even touching, bears in the wild.

An air taxi pilot who arrived to pick up the couple contacted the National Park Service and troopers to report a brown bear was apparently sitting on top of human remains in the camp.

A ranger shot and killed a large brown bear when the animal charged at them through the dense brush. Troopers and rangers later killed a smaller bear apparently stalking them.

Hill said he was stunned by what he heard on the tape.

"The audio starts while he's being mauled and ends while he's being mauled," Hill said.

Treadwell may have heard a bear and asked Huguenard to turn on the camera, which was found with the lens cap on and packed in a camera bag, Hill said.

"At first, she sounds kind of surprised and asks if it's still out there. I'm not sure if she was asking if a bear was outside their tent or in the brush," Hill said. "The audio stops because the tape runs out. Otherwise, it probably would have captured the whole thing."

Hill said he will attempt to transcribe the tape. But there are no plans to make the recording or transcripts public, trooper spokesman Greg Wilkinson said.

Troopers recovered video and still photography equipment as well as three hours of earlier video footage from the site, across Shelikof Strait from Kodiak Island.

Much of the footage is close-up shots of bears. Some scenes show bears no more than a few feet from Treadwell, co-author of "Among Grizzlies: Living With Wild Bears in Alaska." Others show a more timid Huguenard leaning away as bears come close to her on the bank of a river.

Rebecca Dmytryk, who oversees an animal rescue organization in Malibu, recalled other video footage of Treadwell before his death that showed him in a streambed near an older bear he nicknamed "Quincy."

"Quincy, do you remember when you stood over me? You were so hungry, and you should have eaten me, but you didn't. Thanks for not eating me, Quincy," Dmytryk recalled him saying to the bear in the clip. "If Quincy had eaten me, good, 'cause he's a nice bear."

Treadwell's family was in shock over the death.

"I was dumbfounded, ready to fall through the floor," said his father, Valentin Dexter, who lives in Pompano Beach, Florida.

[freeflir29 0]

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Would you have had the same comments about Diane Fossey if she had been attacked and killed by a mountain gorilla?

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You feel that Diane Fossey was a "dumbass" and an "idiot"?

Ummm....read the question again. Diane wasn't killed by a gorilla. She met her fate at the hands of the MOST dangerous animal in the world. "Man"

[skysquiffy 0]

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***Would you have had the same comments about Diane Fossey if she had been attacked and killed by a mountain gorilla?

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You feel that Diane Fossey was a "dumbass" and an "idiot"?

Ummm....read the question again. Diane wasn't killed by a gorilla. She met her fate at the hands of the MOST dangerous animal in the world. "Man"

But IF she had been killed by a mountain gorilla due to her continuous close proximity you would've called her a dumbass and an idiot? That was how you answered the question.

It was a hypothetical that you answered in the affirmative. The fact that she was ultimately killed by men is irrelevant. She could've found herself in a similar fate as Treadwell and it would not have negated her research and ultimate protection of the species. Likewise for Mr. Treadwell.

[freeflir29 0]

The fact remains that I called her neither because obviously she had a far better handle on gorillas than skippy did on bears.

[JohnRich 4]

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I absolutely cannot stand wild animals in a caged environment. ESPECIALLY when they are there for no reason other than for entertaiment value. I for one believe that if I want to see a wild animal, I go see it in it's environment.

On the other hand, most of the public can't afford to go to Africa or other places to see animals in the wild. Therefore, having a few of them in zoos exposes the public to them, and allows them to come to appreciate those animals. Then, by appreciating them, that mass public becomes more sympathetic to efforts to save them in the wild, and will contribute to those causes. So in the end, "caging" a few for public entertainment can actually benefit the survival of the species.

[skysquiffy 0]

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The fact remains that I called her neither because obviously she had a far better handle on gorillas than skippy did on bears.

They are also a different species. Gorillas are not bears, they are not predators. If I decide to study sharks instead of hamsters, my odds of being maimed or killed increase dramatically.

By your logic, any person that dies at the hands of their passion (whether it be an animal or a sport) had no knowledge or skill to begin with.

[freeflir29 0]

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So in the end, "caging" a few for public entertainment can actually benefit the survival of the species.

Zoos are a VERY differen't story. Most zoos do TONS of conservation work as well as raising public awareness. Of course...I'm sure those tigers in the S&R show probably had a decent existence. They probably ate well and were impeccably bathed and cared for.....it just seems a bit silly to me that their only purpose was to do shows. *Shrug*

[freeflir29 0]

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By your logic, any person that dies at the hands of their passion (whether it be an animal or a sport) had no knowledge or skill to begin with.

Wow....you're really intent on putting words in my mouth aren't you? No....what I said was that people that die at the hands of their passion, be it animal, sport, whatever, usually do so because they FUCKED UP. Even in skydiving the MAJORITY, certainly not all, of the deaths are caused by the deceased making a mistake. I'm all about risk management. I'll take my risks in my job and skydiving. I think both are FAR more predictable than standing near a Grizz.

[skysquiffy 0]

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I absolutely cannot stand wild animals in a caged environment. ESPECIALLY when they are there for no reason other than for entertaiment value. I for one believe that if I want to see a wild animal, I go see it in it's environment.

On the other hand, most of the public can't afford to go to Africa or other places to see animals in the wild. Therefore, having a few of them in zoos exposes the public to them, and allows them to come to appreciate those animals. Then, by appreciating them, that mass public becomes more sympathetic to efforts to save them in the wild, and will contribute to those causes. So in the end, "caging" a few for public entertainment can actually benefit the survival of the species.

Absolutely agree. Well run zoos that attempt to mimic the natural environment of the wild animal can serve as superb educational tools, endangered species breeding programs and rehabilitation centers. There is a far cry between these types of facilities and a vegas show or the circus.

However, it is unfortunate that we need the "better" zoos and aquariums in the first place. They are a symptom of the human race's mismanagement and abuse of natural resources in the first place.

I've been swimming with dolphins. It lasted about 5 seconds in the open ocean. To me, that was worth more than 10 hours watching a performing dolphin at Sea World. Again, personal beliefs. I have come to accept that there is a certain value to some "caged" environments.