Not so soft Pilot opening

[angrypeppers 1]

Yesterday I jumped my rig for the first time, and had my worst opening yet. I have a Pilot 210 in an Icon I6. I pitched at 5000, and it opened up right away, threw me sideways, and I got about four or five line twists...not what I was expecting at all! I'm pretty sure my body position was OK, as I was a little nervous about jumping my own stuff for the first time, and tried to make sure that I was very stable at pull time.

When the canopy opened, it seemed to open all at once, then dove to the right a bit while it twisted up. No snivel at all, just pitch, WHAM! TWIST! and I was on the risers. I lost maybe 600-700 feet total from when I pitched till I was kicking out the twists. It settled down, and I was way above my hard deck, so I stayed with it. I did briefly think that I may have to chop, but luckily, it didn't come to that. After I got the twists out, it flew fine...no further problems.

I watched the packer pack the canopy, and he had a tough time getting it in the d-bag. It's a new'ish canopy (100 jumps or so). Since I'm a newb, I'm not packing it myself yet, so I'm looking for opinions on what may have caused the bad opening (assuming it wasn't my body position - I'll check that next jump). The canopy was pro packed, and he rolled the nose a bit.

From the chart on the Aerodyne site, my canopy is at the top of the range for the container, so I'm sure that doesn't help much. A different packer packed it after my jump, and he had trouble with the d-bag too. I'll probably pull it apart and let someone check it out before I jump it again.

Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.

[NWFlyer 2]

Tough time getting it into the container could mean that it is more likely that the packer lost control of the slider at some point, which could contribute to the slammer aspect of it. The one and only time I've been slammed on my Pilot 210 was a pack job (my own) where I really fought with it to get it in the bag (it was also the last time I pro-packed it myself; while others have managed to pro pack it quite successfully, I find that I fight with it so much that I don't keep as much control as I'd like. I psycho pack it and have beautiful openings that way).

Mine's also on the tight side for my container - having to fight the canopy into the bag means you have to be very aware that you don't lose control of it during that fight.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[phoenixlpr 0]

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The canopy was pro packed, and he rolled the nose a bit.

Eh. What is in the manual? Do not roll the nose. Place the nose in the middle, place the slider over the nose. Roll the tail.

I had more than 300 jumps on a Pilot 150. I got about less than 10 line twist altogether due to my poor position.

[bigdad510 1]

The advice above is good advice. What does the manual say? A lot of jumpers hear that "rolling the nose" will slow down your opening. That's true for a lot of canopies. I'm glad I read the instructions on my canopy, because "rolling the nose" on my canopy, probably would result in a reserve ride. With mine, I have to push the nose deep within the pack job, and tighten (roll) the tail.

Don't just assume any canopy's nose can be rolled.

Brad

[pincheck 0]

I've never rolled the nose, Just made sure the slider is properly quartered and straight forward pro pack and my rigger made me learn as soon as i got it to pack still paid a packer but did a lot off practicing at home .Does sound like the slider slipped during the pack Job. As for the dive maybe Your legstraps where uneven there are a number of more experianced people on here that could make better suggestions i only relate to my own. If you feel it maybe the gear get a experianced jumper to jump it or ask a camer Guy to film your deployment. Little bags and slippy canopies are a pain

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[DougH 270]

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The canopy was pro packed, and he rolled the nose a bit.

Eh. What is in the manual? Do not roll the nose. Place the nose in the middle, place the slider over the nose. Roll the tail.

I had more than 300 jumps on a Pilot 150. I got about less than 10 line twist altogether due to my poor position.

I agree 100%. There is absolutely no reason to do anything at all to the nose of a pilot. I leave mine right where it hangs once I let go of it.

Perfect reason to start packing for yourself, what are you waiting for?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[tdog 0]

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I'm pretty sure my body position was OK, as I was a little nervous about jumping my own stuff for the first time, and tried to make sure that I was very stable at pull time.

Hmm... A little nervous...
My first Pilot opening, when I had 55 jumps, was very hard - so hard I had bruises on my inner legs for a month, on my shoulders for a while, and I had my gear inspected. Cause... Sloppy slider...

I was a novice packer, and the pilot fabric was explosive until I got some dust in it...
Lesson 1) A canopy known to be soft like the Pilot can still slam with poor packing.

Lesson 2) That slider does matter, not much else does. (I am going to be flamed for that one, people are going to tell me about line overs, broken rubber bands, etc).

[RandomLemming 0]

Do you have a decent video for the psycho pack? The only one I can find is tiny and I'm struggling to follow it.

[RandomLemming 0]

Do you know how many inches of lines there were between the risers and the last bungee on your d-bag ?

The reason I asked is that I nearly knocked myself out with a Pilot pack job a couple of weeks ago. It was entirely my own fault, but I didn't leave enough slack towards the end of the lines, and I think I doubled over one of the last bungees in a way that caused everything to wobble and shake about instead of cleanly releasing the lines.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I'd rather try something else. I had a new Pilot, it was as hard to roll as folding....

Try this

I might make a video about it if I have enough time.

[RandomLemming 0]

That would be the Propack with the reverse S-fold, yes ?

That's what I've been using lately, but I've got some funny looks at the DZ :)

[phoenixlpr 0]

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That would be the Propack with the reverse S-fold, yes ?

You are almost right. Wolmari pack with reverse S-fold. There is a small trick what can make you life easier.

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That's what I've been using lately, but I've got some funny looks at the DZ :)

No sh1t! You would get even more funny looks if you start psycho packing. I was thinking about it too, but I was seriously discouraged by my mentors.

[mnskydiver688 0]

I jumped a PD 210 for a while and my very first time I jumped it it nearly knocked me out. (not my pack job) The next time I packed it I was given the suggestion to take the tail of the slider and square it and bring it up to my hand and then hang on to it when I brought the tail up and then roll the tail quite a bit. I have never rolled the nose on any of the canopy's I have jumped but the slider trick has helped on all of them. Just a thought and hope the hard openings get worked out for you.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[DougH 270]

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Do you know how many inches of lines there were between the risers and the last bungee on your d-bag ?

The reason I asked is that I nearly knocked myself out with a Pilot pack job a couple of weeks ago. It was entirely my own fault, but I didn't leave enough slack towards the end of the lines, and I think I doubled over one of the last bungees in a way that caused everything to wobble and shake about instead of cleanly releasing the lines.

I don't see that giving you a slammer. I could see that giving you line twists on opening though.

It sounds more like you didn't have the slider against the stops, or you don't have long enough stows and you had line dump.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I don't see that giving you a slammer. I could see that giving you line twists on opening though.

It sounds more like you didn't have the slider against the stops, or you don't have long enough stows and you had line dump.

Wow! I wish I had an instant answer to anything and everything....

[pincheck 0]

the answer is on the areodyne website Wayne under support here page 17 says 60 -70 cm to prevent line twists

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[tbrown 26]

So far I've only had very soft openings on my 210 Pilot. Maybe yours opened hard because you're not packing it yourself. Learn to pack, learn to pack, learn to pack. A Pilot should open soft as a Spectre and in less time.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[angrypeppers 1]

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more likely that the packer lost control of the slider at some point, which could contribute to the slammer aspect of it. I psycho pack it and have beautiful openings that way).

I've done some searching here, and lots of people seem to like psycho packing the Pilot!

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The advice above is good advice. What does the manual say? A lot of jumpers hear that "rolling the nose" will slow down your opening. Don't just assume any canopy's nose can be rolled.

Good advice indeed! And I did tell the packer to roll the nose a bit for just that reason. My own fault for not reading the manual more closely.

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maybe Your legstraps where uneven

I think the left leg strap was a little loose in fact. When I was under canopy, it slipped down my thigh a little. Hadn't thought about that till now...

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Perfect reason to start packing for yourself, what are you waiting for?

Yeah, I know...I need to learn to pack! I was actually waiting till the rig was mine, which it now is.

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Hmm... A little nervous...

Nope, I'm not sure at all. I *thought* it was though! I'm sure I did tense up a bit.

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Do you know how many inches of lines there were between the risers and the last bungee on your d-bag ?

No, I don't know for sure. I'll keep an eye on that next time!

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The next time I packed it I was given the suggestion to take the tail of the slider and square it and bring it up to my hand and then hang on to it when I brought the tail up and then roll the tail quite a bit.

Sounds like it's worth trying!


So, I'm think I'll open it up, and have someone else pack it this weekend. No nose rolls this time, and I'll make sure to keep an eye on the slider. I'm going to schedule a packing class, so I can pack it myself too. I need it for my A, so I may as well get going now. I like what I've read about psycho packing, so I'll probably try that too, once I know what I'm doing. The opening was a good reminder that I'll need to be careful of body position, and also, the pack job. Thanks for the comments everyone!

Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.

[proswooper 2]

The pilot typically opens very soft.

any canopy has the potential to whack you once in a while due to many variables.

what you need to find out is was this a one off or is it consistently opening bad. if it consistently opens like this.then it may need relining or at the least an inspection.

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING SPECIAL WHEN PACKING JUST TO GET IT TO OPEN SLOW.

as far as the line twists go that would have a lot to do with the canopy being very tight in the container

the biggest canopy you should be putting in the I6 is a 190


i used to test jump canopies that were sent in to aerodyne for various reasons and only about one in ten actually had a problem that was the canopy. so just make sure it is the canopy before you send it in and if it is they will be happy to fix it or point you in the right direction.

PM me if you want any help

[DougH 270]

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Wow! I wish I had an instant answer to anything and everything....

That is ironic because it seems like you do have an answer to everything as well, or at least a personal attack to every one of my replies.

So instead of personally attacking me as usual do tell how does leaving a small amount of excess line from the last stow band to the risers cause a hard opening.

If you can tell me I would be glad to learn how, it never hurts to learn more stuff about my gear, otherwise you can take your personal attack on me and blow it out your ass Gabor.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[NWFlyer 2]

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Do you have a decent video for the psycho pack? The only one I can find is tiny and I'm struggling to follow it.

I don't ... I was shown how to do it in person.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[angrypeppers 1]

Well, this was the first jump after the pre-purchase inspection, the comment on the sheet was "everything like new", so I don't suspect any problems with the lines or canopy. I am starting to think that it was a combination of my body position, and a pack job that went bad. Hopefully, future openings will be like buttah.

According to the Aerodyne site, and from talking to them, a Pilot210 will fit the I6, but it will be tight. The container size chart shows a 175/190 will fit an I6 but the max pack volume (465 cu. in) is the same as what's shown for the Pilot210.

I'll at least have someone re-pack it, just to make sure it's packed correctly before I jump it again. I like the idea of someone else jumping it too. I'm going to try to get a packing class scheduled, too!

Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.

[angrypeppers 1]

Not a video, but these pictures might help:

Clicky

Burn the land and boil the sea,
You can't take the sky from me.

[IanHarrop 37]

This is the only video I know of

http://www.precision.aero/packing.htm

Instructions: After you read through the background....

http://www.precision.aero/packing.htm

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[koune 0]

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The pilot typically opens very soft.

Oh, maybe Frank can share the video of the opening of his pilot on our third jump last sunday