Hornet by PISA - High Performance?

[Karina 0]

I need some opinion about Hornet 210sqft as main canopy for the beginner with around 30 jumps.
I have been flying this canopy as a beginner for a couple of years ago and now was going to recommend it to the other beginner. I showed many reviews on that canopy at dropzone.com but suddenly he got a call from our dropzone rigger who said that Hornet is classified like high performance canopy in Sweden and the beginners are not allowed to fly Hornet here.

I am deeply astonished and would appreciate any reviews on this subject. I posted it to Aerodyne support as well, but just can´t wait :)

Karina

[kingbunky 3]

i always thought the hornet was pisa's 'version' of the sabre, in other words, a non-elliptical canopy. it is a sport canopy, but not a high performance canopy, at an appropriate wing-loading!.

pisa's high perfromance canopy was the heatwave.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[rhys 0]

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pisa's high perfromance canopy was the spankwave.

there fixed it for you,

i did 800 jumps on one of those things and had to visit the physio 3 times for hard openings.

i was training in sweden a few weeks ago and there is an new rule (at gryttyom anyway) that you cannot jump an elliptical until you have (i think) 500 jumps.

you cannot have a wingloading over a certain point without completing a canopy course,

specres and sabres are quite popular there!!!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[woodpecker 0]

I jump both a hornet 150 and pilot 150 with 1:1 wingload and would not consider it high performance.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[martz 0]

I'have jumped it for a couple of hundred jumps.

I bought a hornet 170 at 47 jumps and fell in love with it. I never had a hard opening.

The hornet is more like a sabre2 because it is semi-elliptical.

===============================
Ourson # 5
impatient de sauter # 1

[bofh 0]

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i was training in sweden a few weeks ago and there is an new rule (at gryttyom anyway) that you cannot jump an elliptical until you have (i think) 500 jumps.

you cannot have a wingloading over a certain point without completing a canopy course,

specres and sabres are quite popular there!!!

That's not really correct. Up to 500 jumps, the max wing loading is limited by a chart, the "Jesper curve":
http://www.ofkdz.nu/jesp.htm. It lists canopy sizes allowed for your number of jumps and your weight. It isn't all linear, so for example a 1 jump, 40kg girl is still not allowed to jump a 120 canopy, even if the WL was low enough... After 500 jumps you can use whatever WL you want.

Unless you have 300 jumps + a canopy course (new for this year), you are not allowed to jump a High Performance canopy. All canopies are required to be approved and in the list of approved canopies it says weather it is a HP canopy or not (and the Hornet is listed as a HP canopy).

We also have a second canopy course which, after completion, allows you to make hook turns. You are only allowed to go to that course if you already have 500 jumps.

[Peej 0]

I started jumping a Hornet at 45 jumps at a loading of just over 1.1. I wouldn't consider it high performance when lightly loaded, as far as i'm concerned you can class it with the Sabre, Pilot etc.

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[Karina 0]

Well, this is all about classification of Hornet in Sweden. In the description of this canopy is written "semi-elliptical" as well as Spectre by PD. The Hornet has a lightly elliptical shape but I doubt it can be considered like High Performance despite of the loading.
Thus highly loaded Spectre should be considered as High Performance too.

Could any matured rigger come with the opinion?

Anyway I am waiting for official info from Aerodyne.

[Tonto 1]

Hi Karina,

The Hornet is a "light Eliptical" and would fall into the same category as the Sabre 2, Safire, Safire 2, Pilot, etc.

I've found it to be an excellent wingsuit canopy as it tends to open quite fast and deals with line twists in a very forgiving manner. Unfortunately I have no experience of it at wing loadings below 1.8, but would not expect to see it classified as a high performance canopy at low/moderate wing loadings.

The problem with "classification" is that when something is labled "eliptical" it's hard to argue that its not, dispite it's stable handling charecteristics.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Peej 0]

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Well, this is all about classification of Hornet in Sweden. In the description of this canopy is written "semi-elliptical" as well as Spectre by PD. The Hornet has a lightly elliptical shape but I doubt it can be considered like High Performance despite of the loading.
Thus highly loaded Spectre should be considered as High Performance too.

Could any matured rigger come with the opinion?

Anyway I am waiting for official info from Aerodyne.

I can't tell from your post exactly what you're getting at but i'm inclined to agree with your point about the spectre. I think that any canopy being flown at a very high loading, whether it be a Sabre 2, Safire 2, Spectre, Hornet, Velo or FX should be considered "high performance", but only if it is in the wrongs hands, that is, someone who is unqualified to pilot it.

I would not however consider a 210 square foot Hornet loaded at 1 to 1 a high performance canopy.

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[bofh 0]

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The Hornet is a "light Eliptical" and would fall into the same category as the Sabre 2, Safire, Safire 2, Pilot, etc.

...

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The problem with "classification" is that when something is labled "eliptical" it's hard to argue that its not, dispite it's stable handling charecteristics.

The other canopies you mentioned are not classified as HP canopies in Sweden. Perhaps there has been some mistake in the classification of the Hornet?

I've never seen one jumped in Sweden, so perhaps nobody has noticed the error?

[DougH 270]

I jumped a hornet 210 all the way through AFF, loaded at just under 1:1.

I love the canopy, it has soft but consistent openings, it opens on heading if you have good body position. It only had line twists once for me, but that was the result of a spin that I pulled in.

The zp is easy to pack. It has a good flare. At my wing loading it was responsive but docile when given slow inputs down low.

I jump a pilot 188 now, and I definetly don't mind when I have to take up the hornet 210, it really is a great canopy.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Karina 0]

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I've never seen one jumped in Sweden, so perhaps nobody has noticed the error?

Well, this is exactly what I am trying to find out, so I would appriciate more comments from instructors and riggers and ofcourse the manufacture before "starting a larm".

Here are some facts on Spectre and Safire which are not classified as HP in Sweden:

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Item: Safire
Manufacturer: Icarus Canopies
Purpose: Main
Shape Elliptical
Cells 9
Fabric: ZP

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Item: Spectre
Manufacturer: Performance Designs
Purpose: Main
Shape Elliptical
Cells 7
Fabric: ZP

[riggerrob 558]

Luddites!
At Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada, we rent Hornet 190s to recent PFF graduates (starting at 8 to 24 jumps, depending upon their weight and skill). I would not consider a lightly-loaded (less 1.2 pounds per square foot) Hornet to be high performance, since it competes directly with other slightly-elliptical canopies: Pilot, Safire, Spectre, Sabre, Silhouette, etc. all aimed at junior (less than 100 jumps) skydivers.
Perhaps those Luddites are confusing Hornets with Wildfires (a more radically-tapered canopy, also from the old PISA) - a Stiletto clone - which gets pretty high-performance when loaded in the 1.5 to 1.7 range.
Those Luddites - in charge of your club - just eliminated the latest generation of slightly-tapered student canopies: Navigator, Solo and Icarus whatchamacallit.

[bofh 0]

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Those Luddites - in charge of your club - just eliminated the latest generation of slightly-tapered student canopies: Navigator, Solo and Icarus whatchamacallit.

These are not club rules, they are for the whole of Sweden and you are wrong. At least the Navigator is an approved canopy and if the other two are approved (someone has to request that they are to be approved), I'm quite sure they are not considered to be HP canopies.

But then again, never consider something as a misstake when you can not rule out that it was done on purpose...

[kaerodyne 0]

Karina

You and I are both stumped on this one, I have no idea why the Hornet 210 would not be jumpable in Sweden. We have many student drop zones using them as the first stage canopy for students coming of student gear.

The Hornet is in the same category as a Sabre in it's performance.

The only thing I could think might be the issue is Wing Loading, find out more about the exit weight of the person who was going to jump it, and you might find they exceed the WL Limits for students in Sweden. The rules that are in place are there for a reason, even if don't agree with them.

If you feel the need get the Rigger in Sweden to contact me directly and I can see where I can assist. But I have a feeling that since this seems to be a rule, there will be no way around it.