Gawain 0 #1 June 16, 2007 If you had to give a percentage of what influences the sound quality of say, a car stereo system, would you say it rests in the receiver/amp or in the speakers, etc. I know the common line of thinking is that if you're going to upgrade car audio, it helps to do the whole thing, but I'm still curious about this scenario: My car audio is a factory "mid-grade" system. It gets plenty loud if I want it to, etc. However, it's almost as though the speakers can't deliver a clear balance between the bass and higher-range sounds -- it's as if the bass gets muddy, and drowns out the rest in some cases (doesn't matter if it's radio, CD, or iPod playback). So, my question is this, can changing the speakers make a difference in this? Or would that be like killing the messenger?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PikzeeVikzen 0 #2 June 16, 2007 If you have to pick one thing to change I'd go for the speakers. They are probably paper cone speakers and things like what you are describing tend to happen. With a mid grade system you more than likely have a small amp built into the head unit. An upgraded head unit would help too. They can be expensive or not so expensive. I'm the twist that turns your key.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #3 June 16, 2007 The first thing I always do is replace the speakers. Factory speaker suck.Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 June 16, 2007 Speakers, definitely...but a lot depends on how the speakers are set up. From your description, it sounds as if higher frequencies are bleeding through to your bass speakers. There's a lot that can be done with system setup and frequency blockers to clean up 'muddy' sound...a quick trip to a local stereo shop may be in order!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #5 June 17, 2007 speakers AND amp in my mind. but not a huge sub amp, something nice and mid powered for all speakers. no bump needed, just clean power across the entire audio spectrum with some sweet speakers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 June 17, 2007 Quotespeakers AND amp in my mind. What might the amp accomplish aside from boosting power?So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #7 June 17, 2007 wires can be a weak link, no matter how good the components and speakers you only hear what actually gets to the speakers. Monster cables are worth the money, and these days they are expensive. Gold plated or solid copper connections and no crappy grounding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #8 June 17, 2007 A great amp will allow you to hear more at a lower decibel. YMMV I am out of date on the latest and greatest, but I was always a fan of Harmon Kardin, Blaupunkt, and way back when Alpine. Amazing how far ahead they were for their time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #9 June 17, 2007 you might also needs some sound absorbent material around your speakers in the doors etc. Nothing sounds great when you hear your car coming apart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #10 June 17, 2007 WTF you probably have tinitus anywaysWho were you kidding Max? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
countzero 7 #11 June 17, 2007 Quote So, my question is this, can changing the speakers make a difference in this? reply] yes, an upgrade will give you a speaker made of better materials (most likely your stock speakers have paper cones) and with better technical characteristics like sensitivity and frequency response. also adding some dampening material will help- less road noise in the car the less volume needed to overcome it. check out diymobileaudio for lots of info and reviews about car audio that ranges from great sounding budget stuff to high dollar multiple speaker and amp systems.diamonds are a dawgs best friend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #12 June 17, 2007 Quote WTF you probably have tinitus anywaysWho were you kidding Max? Ear-pro during the explosion dude...I swear by it. All my hearing tests at Walter Reed indicated my hearing was better than before I left for Iraq... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #13 June 17, 2007 Great news!, now if we could get Dan to use them. I sent him the info on the ear pro with amplification. Now only if he would wear the fucking things. besides it helps when you can hear them scurrying about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #14 June 17, 2007 Quote Monster cables are worth the money, and these days they are expensive. That's one of the funniest things I've read all day. Monster cables can be upwards of 50X the price of non-branded cables. I'm using HDMI as a price-point since I was shopping for one recently. A 6' Monster HDMI cable can be well over $100 (for a length of copper wire?) while a non-branded quality one can obtained for $3. Now, even if there is somehow a small difference (which my eyes and ears have never been able to detect), does it really warrant paying $150 instead of $3? That's like going to the store to buy a loaf of bread for $2, and the "premium bread" is $100. I've spoken to people before who have worked in the industries that supply raw copper wire to the "speaker wire" companies, and it's mostly the same. Granted, there is some poor stuff in existence, but there is also stuff "as good as Monster" (which just means it works as it should) for much, much cheaper. On topic: speakers are indeed the most critical part of system, followed by receiver/amp.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites azdiver 0 #15 June 17, 2007 the cheapest hdmi cable i have seen was 60 bucks where did u see one for 3light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #16 June 17, 2007 Number 1 & 2 sound quality issues: Engine & road noise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #17 June 17, 2007 not the brand... the size Geez.... and since electricity is carried on the perimeter of the wire, the more surface, the better it conducts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #18 June 17, 2007 Quotethe cheapest hdmi cable i have seen was 60 bucks where did u see one for 3 CLICKY Ok, after shipping it's $10. Also check monoprice.com, partsexpress.com, and pccables.com. All 3 sites are well reviewed by many audio enthusiasts.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites opurt 0 #19 June 17, 2007 In my experience, the amp is more important than the speakers. Here are the facts of my situation: 1) 2001 mid-sized coupe with mid level stereo. Six speakers which are "paper speakers". 2) I noticed something interesting when I got the car. The radio would not create rich sound. It was rather tinny. Low bass, washed out sound. Very, very lame. Despite the six speaker system. 3) However, when I played a CD, the sound was as I expected it to be. Deep base, resonant, good treble. I wondered why this would be. 4) The answer was the amp. The amp for the CD system in the stereo head unit was more powerful than the radio amp. It produced the energy to let the speakers create the rich and powerful sound. 5) I purchased a lower end Alpine amp. It was one above the lower end actually. It had a subwoofer output, which I never made use of. The lowest model had no subwoofer support. Result: the stereo sounded fabulous after that. I was thinking I needed new speakers. That was incorrect. I needed an amp. Warnings: 1) Don't get an amp that's too powerful or you will promply blow out your speakers. 2) Dig through the chicanery regarding amp ratings and their use in advertisements. There are plenty of good sites out there dealing with this. Summary: YMMV (your mileage may vary). Doing something like this involves experimentation. Unfortunately, I cannot guarantee my solution will improve your audio situation. But I am confident in suggesting that a low end Alpine or other reputable brand amp will improve your car audio sound. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,412 #20 June 17, 2007 Quotethe cheapest hdmi cable i have seen was 60 bucks where did u see one for 3 Near the bottom of the page: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&style="There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #21 June 17, 2007 Quotenot the brand... the size If I mis-interpreted, I apologize. I've just never heard anyone use the word "Monster" when not referring to the brand. I agree that depending on the signal and the length of wire, the wire gauge does matter.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 644 #22 June 18, 2007 nor will most human ears hear the difference to justify the cost associated with the higher quality wiring...good wiring is a nice component of a quality sound system, speakers and amps are significantly more important. nice posts Matt...especially the discount site! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #23 June 18, 2007 Quote Great news!, now if we could get Dan to use them. I sent him the info on the ear pro with amplification. Now only if he would wear the fucking things. besides it helps when you can hear them scurrying about. It's amazing what you can hear when you have them on. I was wearing the triple-flange ones and you could still "whisper" when wearing them. My PL wasn't wearing them during the blast that got me, he's pretty much lost hearing in his left ear now. Tell everyone you know going over there they need to wear it. DoD won't sign off for hearing disability now (unless wounded) because they're issuing tons of ear-pro.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites opurt 0 #24 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuotespeakers AND amp in my mind. What might the amp accomplish aside from boosting power? Everything you wanted to know about audio but were afraid to ask - the rec.audio.* FAQ from faqs.org: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/part1/. Specifically, the part on amplifiers: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/part4/ And, I was wrong about one factor - the power of the amp. The FAQ says an amp that is too weak is more of a danger than an amp that is too strong: "11.6 Is this amplifier too big for that set of speakers? There is no such thing as an amplifier that is too big. Smallamplifiers are more likely to damage speakers than large ones, because small amplifiers are more likely to clip than larger ones, at the same listening level. I have never heard of speakers being damaged by an overly large amplifier. I have heard of 100 watt speakers being damaged by a 20 watt amplifier, however, in really abusive hands. This will happen because when an amplifier clips, it will generate much more energy at high frequencies than normal music would contain. This high energy at high frequencies may be less than the continuous power rating of the speaker, but higher than the actual energy rating of the tweeter. Tweeters tend to be very fragile components." An audiophile and a DJ to whom I spoke prior to my purchase said the goal was to "match" the power of the amp and the speaker. I still think that an amp that is too strong for a set of speakers will stress them badly and ultimately destroy them, if the volume gets turned up too much. I still think the key is getting an amp and speakers that are well-matched. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #25 June 18, 2007 Quote Quote WTF you probably have tinitus anywaysWho were you kidding Max? Ear-pro during the explosion dude...I swear by it. All my hearing tests at Walter Reed indicated my hearing was better than before I left for Iraq... Good for you, Max! mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Gawain 0 #12 June 17, 2007 Quote WTF you probably have tinitus anywaysWho were you kidding Max? Ear-pro during the explosion dude...I swear by it. All my hearing tests at Walter Reed indicated my hearing was better than before I left for Iraq... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #13 June 17, 2007 Great news!, now if we could get Dan to use them. I sent him the info on the ear pro with amplification. Now only if he would wear the fucking things. besides it helps when you can hear them scurrying about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #14 June 17, 2007 Quote Monster cables are worth the money, and these days they are expensive. That's one of the funniest things I've read all day. Monster cables can be upwards of 50X the price of non-branded cables. I'm using HDMI as a price-point since I was shopping for one recently. A 6' Monster HDMI cable can be well over $100 (for a length of copper wire?) while a non-branded quality one can obtained for $3. Now, even if there is somehow a small difference (which my eyes and ears have never been able to detect), does it really warrant paying $150 instead of $3? That's like going to the store to buy a loaf of bread for $2, and the "premium bread" is $100. I've spoken to people before who have worked in the industries that supply raw copper wire to the "speaker wire" companies, and it's mostly the same. Granted, there is some poor stuff in existence, but there is also stuff "as good as Monster" (which just means it works as it should) for much, much cheaper. On topic: speakers are indeed the most critical part of system, followed by receiver/amp.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #15 June 17, 2007 the cheapest hdmi cable i have seen was 60 bucks where did u see one for 3light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #16 June 17, 2007 Number 1 & 2 sound quality issues: Engine & road noise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #17 June 17, 2007 not the brand... the size Geez.... and since electricity is carried on the perimeter of the wire, the more surface, the better it conducts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #18 June 17, 2007 Quotethe cheapest hdmi cable i have seen was 60 bucks where did u see one for 3 CLICKY Ok, after shipping it's $10. Also check monoprice.com, partsexpress.com, and pccables.com. All 3 sites are well reviewed by many audio enthusiasts.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
opurt 0 #19 June 17, 2007 In my experience, the amp is more important than the speakers. Here are the facts of my situation: 1) 2001 mid-sized coupe with mid level stereo. Six speakers which are "paper speakers". 2) I noticed something interesting when I got the car. The radio would not create rich sound. It was rather tinny. Low bass, washed out sound. Very, very lame. Despite the six speaker system. 3) However, when I played a CD, the sound was as I expected it to be. Deep base, resonant, good treble. I wondered why this would be. 4) The answer was the amp. The amp for the CD system in the stereo head unit was more powerful than the radio amp. It produced the energy to let the speakers create the rich and powerful sound. 5) I purchased a lower end Alpine amp. It was one above the lower end actually. It had a subwoofer output, which I never made use of. The lowest model had no subwoofer support. Result: the stereo sounded fabulous after that. I was thinking I needed new speakers. That was incorrect. I needed an amp. Warnings: 1) Don't get an amp that's too powerful or you will promply blow out your speakers. 2) Dig through the chicanery regarding amp ratings and their use in advertisements. There are plenty of good sites out there dealing with this. Summary: YMMV (your mileage may vary). Doing something like this involves experimentation. Unfortunately, I cannot guarantee my solution will improve your audio situation. But I am confident in suggesting that a low end Alpine or other reputable brand amp will improve your car audio sound. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,412 #20 June 17, 2007 Quotethe cheapest hdmi cable i have seen was 60 bucks where did u see one for 3 Near the bottom of the page: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&style="There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #21 June 17, 2007 Quotenot the brand... the size If I mis-interpreted, I apologize. I've just never heard anyone use the word "Monster" when not referring to the brand. I agree that depending on the signal and the length of wire, the wire gauge does matter.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 644 #22 June 18, 2007 nor will most human ears hear the difference to justify the cost associated with the higher quality wiring...good wiring is a nice component of a quality sound system, speakers and amps are significantly more important. nice posts Matt...especially the discount site! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #23 June 18, 2007 Quote Great news!, now if we could get Dan to use them. I sent him the info on the ear pro with amplification. Now only if he would wear the fucking things. besides it helps when you can hear them scurrying about. It's amazing what you can hear when you have them on. I was wearing the triple-flange ones and you could still "whisper" when wearing them. My PL wasn't wearing them during the blast that got me, he's pretty much lost hearing in his left ear now. Tell everyone you know going over there they need to wear it. DoD won't sign off for hearing disability now (unless wounded) because they're issuing tons of ear-pro.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
opurt 0 #24 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuotespeakers AND amp in my mind. What might the amp accomplish aside from boosting power? Everything you wanted to know about audio but were afraid to ask - the rec.audio.* FAQ from faqs.org: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/part1/. Specifically, the part on amplifiers: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/part4/ And, I was wrong about one factor - the power of the amp. The FAQ says an amp that is too weak is more of a danger than an amp that is too strong: "11.6 Is this amplifier too big for that set of speakers? There is no such thing as an amplifier that is too big. Smallamplifiers are more likely to damage speakers than large ones, because small amplifiers are more likely to clip than larger ones, at the same listening level. I have never heard of speakers being damaged by an overly large amplifier. I have heard of 100 watt speakers being damaged by a 20 watt amplifier, however, in really abusive hands. This will happen because when an amplifier clips, it will generate much more energy at high frequencies than normal music would contain. This high energy at high frequencies may be less than the continuous power rating of the speaker, but higher than the actual energy rating of the tweeter. Tweeters tend to be very fragile components." An audiophile and a DJ to whom I spoke prior to my purchase said the goal was to "match" the power of the amp and the speaker. I still think that an amp that is too strong for a set of speakers will stress them badly and ultimately destroy them, if the volume gets turned up too much. I still think the key is getting an amp and speakers that are well-matched. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #25 June 18, 2007 Quote Quote WTF you probably have tinitus anywaysWho were you kidding Max? Ear-pro during the explosion dude...I swear by it. All my hearing tests at Walter Reed indicated my hearing was better than before I left for Iraq... Good for you, Max! mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
