LittleOne 0 #1 July 17, 2006 How does a container manufacturer determine the ideal placement of the chest strap for a woman's body? For obvious reasons, the placement of the chest strap is more important for women than for men. The driving factor here is comfort. However, incorrect placement can present a safety hazard. I reviewed the order forms for three major container manufacturers. There was no measurement that indicated the vertical location of the chest strap, unless I am totally misinterpreting the order forms. Each form asked for cup size but that does not address the vertical location. How does this requirement get communicated to the manufacturer in sufficient detail so that the chest strap is positioned ideally for each individual customer if it is not on the form? I heard that a customer can ask for a high, medium or low chest strap placement but are such generic categories precise enough for an expensive, custom made article that is supposed to fit a body perfectly and where all other measurements are precise? As I understand it, moving the chest strap vertically is usually not an easy repair so how can a manufacturer be held responsible for the fit of a container if a key measurement is not included on the order form? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #2 July 17, 2006 I know it's not an answer, but here is one of many threads on the issue.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #3 July 17, 2006 QuoteHow does this requirement get communicated to the manufacturer in sufficient detail so that the chest strap is positioned ideally for each individual customer You mail the order from and a topless picture to me and after I make detailed calculations I advise the manufacture where to place the chest strap.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #4 July 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow does this requirement get communicated to the manufacturer in sufficient detail so that the chest strap is positioned ideally for each individual customer You mail the order from and a topless picture to me and after I make detailed calculations I advise the manufacture where to place the chest strap. ____________________________________ Always thinking, aren't you? (moan...Wish I'd thought of that!...moan) Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #5 July 17, 2006 Call Velocity and talk to Kellf..... ask for the Amazon option Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 6 #6 July 17, 2006 QuoteHow does a container manufacturer determine the ideal placement of the chest strap for a woman's body? For obvious reasons, the placement of the chest strap is more important for women than for men. The driving factor here is comfort. However, incorrect placement can present a safety hazard. I reviewed the order forms for three major container manufacturers. There was no measurement that indicated the vertical location of the chest strap, unless I am totally misinterpreting the order forms. Each form asked for cup size but that does not address the vertical location. How does this requirement get communicated to the manufacturer in sufficient detail so that the chest strap is positioned ideally for each individual customer if it is not on the form? I heard that a customer can ask for a high, medium or low chest strap placement but are such generic categories precise enough for an expensive, custom made article that is supposed to fit a body perfectly and where all other measurements are precise? As I understand it, moving the chest strap vertically is usually not an easy repair so how can a manufacturer be held responsible for the fit of a container if a key measurement is not included on the order form? The location of the chest strap is usually determined by the housing lengths and and handle placement. There is some wiggle room both up and down but not much. The hip junction on a short MLW is usually the determining factor of where the handles will be mounted. Custom handles and housing lengths can be made for extreme cases but most people fit in to the regular placement. It isn't cost effective to have many differnt length housings and handles in the production process, it can also lead to mismatched parts down the road which could be disasterous. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #7 July 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow does this requirement get communicated to the manufacturer in sufficient detail so that the chest strap is positioned ideally for each individual customer You mail the order from and a topless picture to me and after I make detailed calculations I advise the manufacture where to place the chest strap. DAMN!!! That's even better then my idea... I guess that's why Sparky is more "experienced" than I... Anyway, since this is a topic that comes up again and again... like somehow we keep discovering and re-discovering that women have boobies... ... that we ought to pose to the PIA & Manufacturers out there that when building a "woman's rig", instead of a chest strap, it ought to include an integral "bra" with appropriate measurement / cup-size as part of the harness in lou-of the chest strap... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LittleOne 0 #8 July 18, 2006 You'll need a life size photo for that, right? No worries, mate. It's in the mail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LittleOne 0 #9 July 18, 2006 QuoteAnyway, since this is a topic that comes up again and again... like somehow we keep discovering and re-discovering that women have boobies... ... that we ought to pose to the PIA & Manufacturers out there that when building a "woman's rig", The following comment is not directed at you specifically but you and other responders raise a most interesting point. This is a known problem and has been raised for years. Yet, the PIA and manufacturers have done nothing to address this concern. Why not? Is there anyone on here that can help me understand why a known issue that can be easily addressed with a minor amount of effort has been ignored, causing at best aggravation for the paying customer and at worst creating a safety hazard? As mentioned by Riggermick, a manufacturer may not have complete control over the placement of handles and the chest strap. However, if there was an absolute indication of where the chest strap should be (start at the hip junction and measure up the MLW), then at least the manufacturer could use all options at their disposal to place the chest strap and handles as well as possible. Now, the manufacturer has no indication and it's basically a crapshoot. If I am ordering a custom rig, I have just as much right to expect a perfect fit as the "average" (ie male) skydiver without having to find the hidden network of people that understand the anatomical differences between the male and female torsos, don't I? So maybe my real questions are: 1) How do I raise awareness of this issue with the PIA? 2) Do I stand alone in considering this to be a systematic problem that should be addressed by the industry? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #10 July 18, 2006 Quote So maybe my real questions are: 1) How do I raise awareness of this issue with the PIA? Go to the PIA convention... if you cannot do that... PM CouncilMan, he's with the PIA Quote2) Do I stand alone in considering this to be a systematic problem that should be addressed by the industry? You're right, if you're purchasing a custom rig, you have every right for it to fit to your satisfaction; maybe other (women) are more easily satisfied then you are though? So, maybe its not as big an "ax to grind" to them as it seems to be to you? Although, again, if you're unhappy, you certainly have the right to pursue satisfaction. So, what do you think the proper placement of the chest strap is and what do you think the factors are in determining it should be? Discuss that with the manufacturer of the rig you're choosing until you're at a point where they understand you and will build a rig for you that you're happy with... I would be interested in hearing what you find out. Even though there are more men in the sport then women... there are many many lady jumpers out there of varrying shapes and sizes, that, frankly, I cannot believe that there is a systemic problem as you pose... rahter, not to say your problem / concern isn't real, but I think it falls into the same catagory as "its hard, but not un-doable, for rig manfacturers to fit a custom built rig to folks, male or female, that are in the upper or lower 5% of the "norm"... it just takes more work on the part of the purchaser working with the manufacturer." So, in short, yes, I think your concerns are real... yes I think you deserve a rig that fits to your satisfaction, but no I don't think chest strap placement in relation to the fact that women have breasts and men don't is a systemic problem in the industry / sport. If you want to call me an arse for my comments up-post, okay, there's room for that, but what Sparky said was damn funny and I was just jumping on the band-wagon... doesn't make it okay, but I still think it was funny... sorry if you took it at your expense, wasn't meant that way... since when did skydiving go all PC???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #11 July 18, 2006 QuoteHow does a container manufacturer determine the ideal placement of the chest strap for a woman's body? For obvious reasons, the placement of the chest strap is more important for women than for men. The driving factor here is comfort. However, incorrect placement can present a safety hazard. I reviewed the order forms for three major container manufacturers. There was no measurement that indicated the vertical location of the chest strap, unless I am totally misinterpreting the order forms. Each form asked for cup size but that does not address the vertical location. How does this requirement get communicated to the manufacturer in sufficient detail so that the chest strap is positioned ideally for each individual customer if it is not on the form? I heard that a customer can ask for a high, medium or low chest strap placement but are such generic categories precise enough for an expensive, custom made article that is supposed to fit a body perfectly and where all other measurements are precise? As I understand it, moving the chest strap vertically is usually not an easy repair so how can a manufacturer be held responsible for the fit of a container if a key measurement is not included on the order form? Thanks! I think you've answered your own question given the research you've done and the info you've found. IMO, you've hit the nail on the head when you said, "...For obvious reasons, the placement of the chest strap is more important for women than for men. The driving factor here is comfort...", search the forums, there's lots of threads that contain discussions of "above, below or over top" when it comes to where women like their chest strap on their rig... so, unless you're an "above", "below" or "over top of" gal... ergo, the high, medium or low placement you've noted... after that, what's your expectation when you have your rig on and all cinched down ready to go out the door as opposed to where things wind up after opening? Ever look at your handles & chest strap after opening, they're not at the same place, so what does this do now to your "comfort" desires when it comes to where your chest strap is in relation to your breasts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sky15 0 #12 July 18, 2006 With my little A-cups it never much mattered to me I guess, except for one naked jump many years back. I think on most of my rigs the strap has always gone right over them and I never considered asking for them higher or lower. Hope you can end up with a rig that works for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudi 0 #13 July 19, 2006 Having inherited my Mom's rather large chest...ahem...I think I can speak on this. I have never had a problem with my chest strap being uncomfortable. Before I had my harness resized and the chest strap lengthened (I know, it's comical), there was absolutely no room for adjustment. The only room for adjustment was pretty much secured or unsecured (gave me the creeps having the end of the strap that close to the hardware, let me tell you!). Even then, I never felt like my "girls" were going to get ripped off or anything like that. When gearing up, the chest strap was under them. Under canopy, the chest strap was above them. Maybe it's different for women with implants or piercings, but I never had any problem with the location of my chest strap on any rig I rented, borrowed, or owned. I hope you are able to find a solution for the location of your chest strap if you're having a problem with it, though. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #14 July 19, 2006 There are several threads on this topic in the womens forum to include this ONE that will shed some light on things. Call Nancy at Jump Shack and she can answer specific questions for you."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggermick 6 #15 July 19, 2006 QuoteWith my little A-cups it never much mattered to me I guess, except for one naked jump many years back. Remember the old axiom: Anything more than a handfull is a waste!!!!!!!!! Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
ZigZagMarquis 8 #7 July 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow does this requirement get communicated to the manufacturer in sufficient detail so that the chest strap is positioned ideally for each individual customer You mail the order from and a topless picture to me and after I make detailed calculations I advise the manufacture where to place the chest strap. DAMN!!! That's even better then my idea... I guess that's why Sparky is more "experienced" than I... Anyway, since this is a topic that comes up again and again... like somehow we keep discovering and re-discovering that women have boobies... ... that we ought to pose to the PIA & Manufacturers out there that when building a "woman's rig", instead of a chest strap, it ought to include an integral "bra" with appropriate measurement / cup-size as part of the harness in lou-of the chest strap... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleOne 0 #8 July 18, 2006 You'll need a life size photo for that, right? No worries, mate. It's in the mail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleOne 0 #9 July 18, 2006 QuoteAnyway, since this is a topic that comes up again and again... like somehow we keep discovering and re-discovering that women have boobies... ... that we ought to pose to the PIA & Manufacturers out there that when building a "woman's rig", The following comment is not directed at you specifically but you and other responders raise a most interesting point. This is a known problem and has been raised for years. Yet, the PIA and manufacturers have done nothing to address this concern. Why not? Is there anyone on here that can help me understand why a known issue that can be easily addressed with a minor amount of effort has been ignored, causing at best aggravation for the paying customer and at worst creating a safety hazard? As mentioned by Riggermick, a manufacturer may not have complete control over the placement of handles and the chest strap. However, if there was an absolute indication of where the chest strap should be (start at the hip junction and measure up the MLW), then at least the manufacturer could use all options at their disposal to place the chest strap and handles as well as possible. Now, the manufacturer has no indication and it's basically a crapshoot. If I am ordering a custom rig, I have just as much right to expect a perfect fit as the "average" (ie male) skydiver without having to find the hidden network of people that understand the anatomical differences between the male and female torsos, don't I? So maybe my real questions are: 1) How do I raise awareness of this issue with the PIA? 2) Do I stand alone in considering this to be a systematic problem that should be addressed by the industry? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #10 July 18, 2006 Quote So maybe my real questions are: 1) How do I raise awareness of this issue with the PIA? Go to the PIA convention... if you cannot do that... PM CouncilMan, he's with the PIA Quote2) Do I stand alone in considering this to be a systematic problem that should be addressed by the industry? You're right, if you're purchasing a custom rig, you have every right for it to fit to your satisfaction; maybe other (women) are more easily satisfied then you are though? So, maybe its not as big an "ax to grind" to them as it seems to be to you? Although, again, if you're unhappy, you certainly have the right to pursue satisfaction. So, what do you think the proper placement of the chest strap is and what do you think the factors are in determining it should be? Discuss that with the manufacturer of the rig you're choosing until you're at a point where they understand you and will build a rig for you that you're happy with... I would be interested in hearing what you find out. Even though there are more men in the sport then women... there are many many lady jumpers out there of varrying shapes and sizes, that, frankly, I cannot believe that there is a systemic problem as you pose... rahter, not to say your problem / concern isn't real, but I think it falls into the same catagory as "its hard, but not un-doable, for rig manfacturers to fit a custom built rig to folks, male or female, that are in the upper or lower 5% of the "norm"... it just takes more work on the part of the purchaser working with the manufacturer." So, in short, yes, I think your concerns are real... yes I think you deserve a rig that fits to your satisfaction, but no I don't think chest strap placement in relation to the fact that women have breasts and men don't is a systemic problem in the industry / sport. If you want to call me an arse for my comments up-post, okay, there's room for that, but what Sparky said was damn funny and I was just jumping on the band-wagon... doesn't make it okay, but I still think it was funny... sorry if you took it at your expense, wasn't meant that way... since when did skydiving go all PC???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #11 July 18, 2006 QuoteHow does a container manufacturer determine the ideal placement of the chest strap for a woman's body? For obvious reasons, the placement of the chest strap is more important for women than for men. The driving factor here is comfort. However, incorrect placement can present a safety hazard. I reviewed the order forms for three major container manufacturers. There was no measurement that indicated the vertical location of the chest strap, unless I am totally misinterpreting the order forms. Each form asked for cup size but that does not address the vertical location. How does this requirement get communicated to the manufacturer in sufficient detail so that the chest strap is positioned ideally for each individual customer if it is not on the form? I heard that a customer can ask for a high, medium or low chest strap placement but are such generic categories precise enough for an expensive, custom made article that is supposed to fit a body perfectly and where all other measurements are precise? As I understand it, moving the chest strap vertically is usually not an easy repair so how can a manufacturer be held responsible for the fit of a container if a key measurement is not included on the order form? Thanks! I think you've answered your own question given the research you've done and the info you've found. IMO, you've hit the nail on the head when you said, "...For obvious reasons, the placement of the chest strap is more important for women than for men. The driving factor here is comfort...", search the forums, there's lots of threads that contain discussions of "above, below or over top" when it comes to where women like their chest strap on their rig... so, unless you're an "above", "below" or "over top of" gal... ergo, the high, medium or low placement you've noted... after that, what's your expectation when you have your rig on and all cinched down ready to go out the door as opposed to where things wind up after opening? Ever look at your handles & chest strap after opening, they're not at the same place, so what does this do now to your "comfort" desires when it comes to where your chest strap is in relation to your breasts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sky15 0 #12 July 18, 2006 With my little A-cups it never much mattered to me I guess, except for one naked jump many years back. I think on most of my rigs the strap has always gone right over them and I never considered asking for them higher or lower. Hope you can end up with a rig that works for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #13 July 19, 2006 Having inherited my Mom's rather large chest...ahem...I think I can speak on this. I have never had a problem with my chest strap being uncomfortable. Before I had my harness resized and the chest strap lengthened (I know, it's comical), there was absolutely no room for adjustment. The only room for adjustment was pretty much secured or unsecured (gave me the creeps having the end of the strap that close to the hardware, let me tell you!). Even then, I never felt like my "girls" were going to get ripped off or anything like that. When gearing up, the chest strap was under them. Under canopy, the chest strap was above them. Maybe it's different for women with implants or piercings, but I never had any problem with the location of my chest strap on any rig I rented, borrowed, or owned. I hope you are able to find a solution for the location of your chest strap if you're having a problem with it, though. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #14 July 19, 2006 There are several threads on this topic in the womens forum to include this ONE that will shed some light on things. Call Nancy at Jump Shack and she can answer specific questions for you."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 6 #15 July 19, 2006 QuoteWith my little A-cups it never much mattered to me I guess, except for one naked jump many years back. Remember the old axiom: Anything more than a handfull is a waste!!!!!!!!! Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
