Big power from a small number of cylinders for Cruiser bikes, why not for cars?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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The owners of such bikes that wake me with that bark are lucky I believe in an afterlife, or else I would be more likely to seek a violent revenge.

Sounds like you have all the answers you want already. You just want everyone to say Harley riders are infantile, right?

There have been several 4 and 6 cylinder bikes. The Honda 750-4s come to mind as a quiet, smooth, dependable motorcycle. The V-twin is in style. You're just going to have to live with it. Too loud of pipes are illegal, and should be ticketed.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Vibration and the rolling thunder sound is apparently very desirable for motorcycles. So why is it that there are no cars that have large displacement engines with very few cylinders?

Power is the product of torque and RPM. Piston acceleration is a function of RPM and stroke. For a given time-between-overhauls, piston acceleration is what limits RPM and power. Adding more power without more cylinders is going to mean more stroke and piston acceleration; or bigger pistons with more moving mass.

Small engines can make a lot of power per unit displacement from a few cylinders because they're small enough that they can get a lot of RPMs without excessive piston acceleration.

Car-sized engines can't.

There's also a question of power-to-weight ratio. While under-powered by motorcycle standards, V-twins will still do 0-60 in not much over 4 seconds which beats a 408 HP 993 turbo.

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Why is it that engines that are smooth and quiet are for cars, but so many popular bikes go the other way?

For most people motorcycles are pleasure vehicles while cars are their daily transportation. If the bike doesn't make it 50,000 miles between overhauls or isn't comfortable to ride more than 100 miles at a time it doesn't matter. While I wouldn't go as far as a Goldwing, for a bike I ride any distance I want more than two cylinders and some wind protection.

Owning multiple cars is harder than owning a car and a motorcycle - while you can squeeze a motorcycle or two in a 1-car garage with your car a couple cars won't fit.

[nanook 1]

You directly and indirectly answered a lot of questions I had at the same here. Thanks. I understand now.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

Looks like it can be done... how about a 4.2 sec 0-60, 12.4 sec quarter mile, 132 mph smart car?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gawain 0]

The last "big" four cylinder engine made was for the Porsche 968, a 3.0L. It put out about 260bhp if my memory serves me correctly.

It comes down to sound and attitude. Cars are "shelter" and bikes are "freedom".

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Small engines can make a lot of power per unit displacement from a few cylinders because they're small enough that they can get a lot of RPMs without excessive piston acceleration.

Car-sized engines can't.

Thanks for the well thought out reply. Very interesting stuff. Sounds like you know a thing or two about engineering.

[warpedskydiver 0]

http://www.teslamotors.com/

How about this car?

135 MPG
Only $98,950 nicely equipped

[mnealtx 0]

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http://www.teslamotors.com/

How about this car?

135 MPG
Only $98,950 nicely equipped

Nice.... I like the E85 Viper too!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[warpedskydiver 0]

I have been past SVS before, just did not get a chance to stop in there.

[davelepka 4]

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Small engines can make a lot of power per unit displacement from a few cylinders because they're small enough that they can get a lot of RPMs without excessive piston acceleration.

That's a valid point, however, I think the whole premis of this thread is flawed.

Yes, many bikes do use V-Twins, and due to the power to weight ratio of a motorcycle, the bikes are fast.

However, even in the motorcycle world, bikes with more cylinders typically make more power for a given displacement. Look at the big inch aftermarket V-Twin motors. They're up around 1600cc or 1700cc, and peak power is around 130 or 140. Compare this to a big four cylinder like the Kaw ZX-14 which displaces 1400cc, and puts out something like 165hp or 170hp.

That sort of invalidates the premise of the thread. Even in bikes, big power comes from the higher cylinder counts.

As far as the idea that a four cylinder bike seems to put out so much power in a bike as compared to a car, thats a simple matter of engine design.

Layout, material specs, and manufacturing tolerences are all manipulated by engine designers to meet goals in the areas of performance, reliability and cost.

Honda could easily build an engine for a Civic with the same output per cc as the GSXR-1000 (1000cc with about 160ish HP) however the price of the car would skyrocket, and that legendary Honda reliability would take a dive.

A motorcycle with 60,000 or 70,000 miles, even over the course of five or six years is considered high-milage, and it's resale value will suffer greatly becasue of it.

A five year old Honda Civic with 70,000 miles is considered a low milage cream-puff, and will bring a premium price on the used market, possibly in excess of blue book value.

[sundevil777 94]

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That sort of invalidates the premise of the thread. Even in bikes, big power comes from the higher cylinder counts.

The premise of this thread was not that fewer cylinders will result in more power. I know better than that, no need for an engineering lesson for me.

I simply admit that enough power can be had from few cylinders, while getting the benefit of the attributes that cruiser bike enthusiasts so enjoy, and I wonder why that isn't popular for cars.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I simply admit that enough power can be had from few cylinders, while getting the benefit of the attributes that cruiser bike enthusiasts so enjoy, and I wonder why that isn't popular for cars.

I'll say it again, it's because no one wants a car that shakes like a f-ing paint mixer.

If everyone had one, then they'd wake you up with it every morning, now wouldn't they?

Just say you don't like Harleys and be done with it.

[mnealtx 0]

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I simply admit that enough power can be had from few cylinders, while getting the benefit of the attributes that cruiser bike enthusiasts so enjoy, and I wonder why that isn't popular for cars.

I'll say it again, it's because no one wants a car that shakes like a f-ing paint mixer.

Bet the ladies would love it... like "that seat" in the Skyvan....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnMitchell 14]

I heard about that seat . .

And I used give rides on my motorcycle, too.

[mnealtx 0]

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I heard about that seat . .

And I used give rides on my motorcycle, too.

Yup!! Knew a girl in school that had a cafe racer... oddly enough, she couldn't keep the rpms below 2k at stop lights... maybe she should've just gotten this?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[sundevil777 94]

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I simply admit that enough power can be had from few cylinders, while getting the benefit of the attributes that cruiser bike enthusiasts so enjoy, and I wonder why that isn't popular for cars.

I'll say it again, it's because no one wants a car that shakes like a f-ing paint mixer.

If everyone had one, then they'd wake you up with it every morning, now wouldn't they?

Just say you don't like Harleys and be done with it.

I don't hate Harleys, and they don't have to vibrate badly. I rode one way back when the 80 cu.in. engine and new anti-vibration engine mounts were just introduced. I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of vibration.

What I do hate are outrageously loud vehicles of any kind. V-twins with nearly simultaneous ignition timing and an open exhaust are really good at making excessive noise.

What I do think is stupid is the cruiser style/way-forward footpeg position. I think ape-hanger handlebars are stupid.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[birdshit 0]

Because the OIL FRIENDLY politicians havent cracked down on fuel standards yet. If fuel efficiency were a key issue, you would see a lot more 2 3 and 4 cylinder cars. Here in Texas every other car is either a yukon, a hummer, an escalade or some other SUV. Its about the oil.

If they passed a law that required all cars sold in the u.s. would get 50mpg by 2009 then it could be done. But say goodbye to your hummer and hello to your Prius..

But that will never happen because our government is run by the Ford, Chevy, Exxon, and Conoco lobbyists, not the people, and definitely not the politicians. Ford has killed numerous fuel efficiency laws that it thought were "bad for business". In Arizona, they were going to let super fuel efficient cars (40mpg+) use the HOV lane on the freeways. It was supposed to be a way to promote greener commutes. Well, guess what, ford doesn't make a car that gets 40mpg, so they sued because "they were discriminated against".

And with all of the gas guzzling suvs gone, the price of gas would probably drop by a dollar due to decreased demand. I think its funny to see those soccer moms on TV all pissed off and "outraged" about the price of gas when they are standing next to their 5.8L V8 Suburban.

boo hoo... LOL

And by the way, the noise generated by American Motorcycles is by design. Its a dick thing. Bikers aren't happy unless they are rattling the fillings out from 100 feet away. The Suzuki and Yamaha motorcycles of the came displacement are basically silent or very low noise. The noise issue is a red herring in this instance.

America has infrastructure built for large, gas guzzling cars. Unless there is a fundamental paradigm shift in the way we think it will stay that way. I bought a highlander for my soon-to-be-ex wife because it was large, safe and had great safety features. I suspect that many purchases are made for the same reason. Nobody wants to put their wife and son in an egg-shell of a car. that is, unless you could be guaranteed that every other car on the same road was also an egg shell of a car. than it would be a lot safer.