markymarc 0 #1 March 28, 2006 Hi, hoping some one can explain this two pin RSL system on the new Atom Legen R from Parachutes de France,as i am constantly being asked about it. Rsl to the right riser detatchable, to the left is another called a Gauche not detatcable,both lead to there own closing pin to the reserve. I have had it explained it is to stop a main reserve entanglement as the reserve will not go untill the left riser pulls the second pin,?? Anyone any clearer than me?? any issues you see here??. Thanks Marky marc confused dot com ;-) Front and rear view photos.markymark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 0 #2 March 28, 2006 Very simple, both risers MUST leave before reserve container is open. To deactivate RSL you need to open the snap on one riser, if you cutaway, one closing pin go away (the fixed one), the other (with the snap open) stay in place, keeping the reserve container closed. hope my poor english is understandable. Bruno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #3 March 29, 2006 Quote ... to the left is another called a Gauche ... Front and rear view photos. gauche = left hand side in french Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #4 March 29, 2006 Bruno explains how it workes, that said, all the atoms with double sided rsl system (LOR system) that I've seen excluding maybe one or two, have had their rsl modified to a single side rsl. I have 2 atoms, one without rsl one with a modified single side. The mod was done before I bought it. I like the 9shaped pin a lot, the angle for the rsl makes more sense to me. No kinks in your ripcord cable for sure! Although the first time I was pulling my reserve I had to THINK to quit pulling on the ripcord - the reserve was flying already - as I couldn't pull it completely out of the housing due to the 9shaped pin blocking the housing entry At least this way it's harder to drop your ripcord With this setup you can't completely remove the rsl without buying a new ripcord, so mine is just disconnected and neatly tucked away because I do mostly camera jumps. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #5 March 29, 2006 Quoteall the atoms with double sided rsl system (LOR system) that I've seen excluding maybe one or two, have had their rsl modified to a single side rsl. I wonder why. The only downside I can immediately see in the double loop system is that it's apparently a complete bitch to pack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #6 March 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteall the atoms with double sided rsl system (LOR system) that I've seen excluding maybe one or two, have had their rsl modified to a single side rsl. I wonder why. The only downside I can immediately see in the double loop system is that it's apparently a complete bitch to pack. Don't know if they made any changes but the older LOR lanyards were pretty wide and very yellow, so underneath your reserve flap it looked very busy and very weird if you're not used to it. Maybe that's all the reason someone needs? More stuff = more chances of stuff going wrong? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #7 March 29, 2006 The LOR system is designed with the same logic as Racer's cross-connector style RSL and Vector's Collins lanyard: to ensure that both main risers are gone before pulling the reserve ripcord pin(s). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markymarc 0 #8 March 29, 2006 Sorry for the delay!! photos front and rear viewmarkymark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #9 March 29, 2006 Does a 2 pin setup like this require a 2 pin AAD? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #10 March 30, 2006 QuoteDoes a 2 pin setup like this require a 2 pin AAD? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No Both closing loops go through a single Cypres cutter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TV1 0 #11 March 30, 2006 The LOR 2 needs a special loop if a Cypres is in use. The regular cypres loop has a diameter of 1,7 mm - the LOR 2 Loops have 1,5 mm each. They are fixed on the bottom end and goes both through the same holes in the Cypres alu-plate and of course through the one cutter. - A Two-Pin Cypres is not needed. For riggers: To put the pull up cords through the cutter is a little bit tricky... I take two cypres pull ups 1,7 mm and make fingertraps on the loops ends - so there is not so much material which must goes through the EOS. - The LOR 2 Cypres Loops comes only from Parachutes de France or their dealer network. They are not really chaep: about 4 € / each loop-set. But the system works good. On our DZ all student rigs and the Atom Tandem rigs are equipped with this RSL System. - It prevents a reserve opening before both risers are released. (sorry for my handmade english... ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #12 March 30, 2006 Of topic: Rumor has it that everything designed in France (cars, parachutes) has to pass a French government board to ensure that it is extremely comfortable for the user, yet complicated enough to be an incredible pain in the *&% for the poor bloke that has to maintain the thing... On topic: What really doesn't help is that both in French and in English the manual says on page 22 that you should insert each curved pin through each locking loop & in the same sentence they refer to the picture that clearly shows you must have one locking loop for one pin. (Edition 02.1. de Sept 2003 - and I'm not really smart, it just happened to be lying here in my office...) Makes you wonder if they understood the design themselves... I found that it is easier to get both LOR 2 loops until through the cutter (= hole with the least diameter) with one pull up cord and then separate them, carrying on with two pull up cords for the rest of the stuff. Takes some "fiddling" but works fine... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blade 0 #13 March 30, 2006 QuoteOf topic: Rumor has it that everything designed in France (cars, parachutes) has to pass a French government board to ensure that it is extremely comfortable for the user, yet complicated enough to be an incredible pain in the *&% for the poor bloke that has to maintain the thing... ... Your rumor is false... WE try to make things that will not endanger anyones life but our aim is not being a pain in the ass for everyone. The LOR system described in this Topic is widely used for student rigs because it has the same efficiency then a normal RSL but it also prevents from reserve deployment into the main if one riser of the main has not been released yet. Most of the time, if a 1 sec delay is necessary to get the 2nd fucking riser to go away it is to my opinion safer to have a 1 sec delay before the reserve opens (rather then entangling it with the main) I remind you that anyway if the 2nd riser does not come out the reserve should be trigged either manually (as it always should) or by the Cypres... (or the Vigil, private joke) that are mandatory here ! By the way, I know it has nothing to do with the Topic but people in the street in Paris are NOT comparable to Thien Han Men, pleasedo not believe CNN's shit these days.Patrick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbla4024 0 #14 March 30, 2006 True. Les Parisiennes are much worse. Fido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markymarc 0 #15 March 30, 2006 Great information folks i fully understand the system now!! So in another fifty jumps i want to fly a camera!! Do i have to have this whole system changed and both rsl removed and a new reserve handle fitted???? going back to a single pin, have been told that to fly camera it is advised to have rsl removed ???markymark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 0 #16 March 30, 2006 convert to RWS skyhook, much better!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 0 #17 March 30, 2006 The photo posted by markymarc explain very well how it works. All french RSL (LOR2) I saw (student and expert) has 2 pin. They are very common in Europe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #18 March 30, 2006 QuoteThey are very common in Europe Yeah I know, I'm from over there And I got 2 Atoms myself. However apperantly besides on Ameland most Atoms here have been de-LOR-ed. We only have sports Atoms on our DZ, no student gear and no tandems. Apperantly sports jumpers here don't want the LOR. Or our riggers don't I don't know. But has been a long time since I saw one. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #19 March 31, 2006 QuoteThe LOR system described in this Topic is widely used for student rigs because it has the same efficiency then a normal RSL but it also prevents from reserve deployment into the main if one riser of the main has not been released yet. Which can be achieved just as easily by cutting one and half inch of "the yellow cable" at the non-RSL side riser,a method which is in widespread use in "the rest of the world"... When you have designed a safety measure and - due to complexity of the system or for whatever other reason - people don't want it and most of them remove it from their equipment at the earliest opportunity I would be going "back to the drawing board" but that's just me... OTOH, the way they designed the freebag, with the suspension lines all neatly stowed on the bottom, would give me warm and fuzzy ("comfortable") feelings, should I jump Atoms so I'm not bashing the brand, or anything. And - as said - other than being a bitch to pack, I don't see anything wrong with the LOR-2 system. Trip down memory lane: It has been proven in the past that IF you jump an Atom without the LOR-2 but with the double loops on one straight closing pin, it IS / "used to be" *) possible to have one loop on top of the other grabbing it and keeping your reserve container closed for the rest of your life, after you pulled the reserve ripcord and despite the AAD cutting the loop... Of course, that can be easily countered by replacing the double loop with a single one when you don't want the LOR-2. - and that IS clearly described on page 11 of the manual. *) I'm not sure this can happen still, since they may have changed the design of the double loop since that accident in Scandinavia, more than a decade ago... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blade 0 #20 March 31, 2006 Quote When you have designed a safety measure and - due to complexity of the system or for whatever other reason - people don't want it and most of them remove it from their equipment at the earliest opportunity I would be going "back to the drawing board" but that's just me... But we DON't modify our Atoms here in Europe and students as well as riggers seem very satisfied with the LOR !! Please realize that USA is not the center of the world for use and of course even less for Parachute de France whose market is of courses France ans eastern europe ! I am not at all trying to defend PdF or Atoms (I am jumping Javelins my self... GREAT RIGS !) but this system has satisfied many students and has shown it's efficiency even if it may have had one dsfunction in the past as you said. By the way, it should not be used in any other way that what it has been designed for (with 2 PINS, the special handle etc...) I answer whenever I can due to the jetlag .! Last thing, sorry for speaking french but what does OTOH mean please ?Patrick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #21 March 31, 2006 If you check our profiles you see that Liemberg and I are not from the USA We do modify those Atoms here in the Netherlands! And Belgium, and probably other places too. Like I said before. I don't think PdF even SELLS in the USA. I totally agree with you however that the the USA is not the center of the world OTOH = on the other hand ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #22 March 31, 2006 QuoteBy the way, it should not be used in any other way that what it has been designed for (with 2 PINS, the special handle etc...) What special handle? And not used otherwise, hmmm, then we'd still be jumping bungee pilotchutes, nah I presume all changes are rigger approved, so we'll make up our own mind about not wanting the LOR system thank you.... Like Peter Liemberg said, there is probably a reason us Dutchies don't jump it, even if the French DO ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #23 March 31, 2006 QuotePlease realize that USA is not the center of the world Vraiment? (I was under the distinct impression that the US not being the center of the world was one of the best kept secrets on DZ.com - you surely let the cat out of the bag here!... ) QuoteBy the way, it should not be used in any other way that what it has been designed for (with 2 PINS, the special handle etc...) Since you can get the Atom Legend from PdF without the LOR-2 system, I don't see why it can't be modified afterwards. 1. Replace ripcord 2. Replace double loops 3. Remove RSL's It is in the manual, so they must be OK with that... You are right though, that modifying it to a single side RSL probably isn't endorsed by PdF and riggers who do that may open a whole can of worms, should something not work out as planned... Quotewhat does OTOH mean please ? On The Other Hand... d'autre part ... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRet 0 #24 March 31, 2006 Are these things on every legend R, or are they an option? I hate RSLs! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frenchyeric 0 #25 March 31, 2006 you understood wrong, both risers are detachable, they have 2 lanyard ,one from each riser, that are attached to the individual curved pins that secure the reserve container with a dual locking loop, both risers must be released for the system to function. simple except you have 2 reserve loop which do not make it so simple.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
