Online Poker

[Hausse 0]

I just decided that I want to start to poker online with real money. I have been playing for quite a while with the play money (I was playing on PokerStars) and I'm fairly good. I know how to calculate odds, which hands to play and so on. My question is more what the differences between real money and play money is playing wise.
Do I have to assume that the people I will be playing against are better than the play money players?

How do the tourneys work? As far as I understand is, I have to pay the buy in and then I'm good to play the whole tourney without being in danger to loose more than the buy in is that right? How long does the usual tourney take?

All kinds of tips are very welcome.

[drdive 0]

I play real money on the "micro" tables, small ante and blinds, and found that compared to play money tables, people bet more reasonably and fold a lot more hands. On play money tables, idiots will bet up anything and wait for the turn and river to get something, on the real money hands players tend to fold the junk. I did pretty good on the play money tables though, and on the real money tables am even to a little behind over the last month or so.

"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub"

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[bigway 4]

I play online poker every night, Live cash games at the casino about three times a week and on wednesday nights i am usually at the casino for a $300 buy in and on saturdays or sundays am usually in the main event for the OZ poker tour playing for usually a $50K prize pool. On the site i play poker i am currently number 63 ranked for sit n gos around the world for this month and am number 2 ranked for australia this month.
I have also just played in a world class seating tournament where prize money was in the millions and I went very far considering how hard it was playing on the same tables as the poker superstar pros such as scotty nguyen, Joe Hacham etc...

Just letting you know my experience before letting you know my opinion....



So you have been playing with play money. Everything you have learnt forget about it.

People when playing for play money will not car even a tenth of much as they will if they are playing for real money.

With real money, only play premium hands, connectors, pocket pairs.
Remember the top 10 hands are 77, 88, 99, 10 10, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AK, AQ

IN sit n go tournaments my advice is sti back and wait, be patient, when you have one of these hands and say blinds are $60 and you have a whole lot of people calling the blind before you, well with a premium hand you dont want people to just limp in before you as they have limped ion by calling the blind.... Raise it up to $300 or $200 and watch half of them fold. the reason they are folding to that raise is because they are trying to limp in and see a flop with the shit hand they have, your raise will make them fold and this is what you want with a premium hand, you dont want people with shit hitting so raise them out.

Now the people who call will probably have one of these hands. Your pot has just been made around $900 if you had three callers. If you are first to bet, make a bet that looks like you are placing a value bet, for example, if the pot is $900, bet $600, this will show the other players that you are wanting them to cvall but they will only call if they have hit or have a better hand than what is on the flop...... From there you need to judge what they have and by doing this you could check it to them and see if they check as well or you could raise it up or put a small bet in. You need to get a read.


Another tip, if you have 5-6 suited, this is the best hand to play against AK. If someone raise it up and you have noticed that they onyl raise when they have a hand like this, if you are last to make a move and it is heads up, flat call him, you have better chances of hitting than he does. If an A or a K come out on the flop then leave it along, if 5 or 6 or 7-8 come out, raise all in. This will tell him you have called with a str8 draw or have hit on the flop and he has not. He would usually fold as when the flop comes it actually tells you 70% of how your hand is.


I seriously suggest you read a book and by me saying that do not take that advise lightly. Read a book and you will elarn alot.


Do not think cash and play money are the same.


Let me know if you want to play som poker, Always up for a game.

You hav4e to assume that if you play a $5 sit n go that you are wasting your money because will call anything.

If you want to play a game where people play properly, go and play a $10-$20 sit n go. They will paly properly instead of playing bingo.

People who play real money are better than fake money players and that is because the sofware for fake money players is different so it makes you think you are good and then you start playing real money. it is a scam.

Try sit n gos, $10 buy in and then you play the whole tourney.


Remember this one thing, alot of people will not agree with what i have said but remember this... Play with alot of patience. The good cards will come. People will also respect your raises if you dont play many hands.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[DARK 0]

read supersystem one and two by doyle brunson

i presume your going to play holdem so read the holdem chapters at the very least.

it would prob be 100dollars to buy them both and if your serious about it and follow the books advice you will have that 100 dollars back in no time.

i havnt played in about a year and the only thing that sticks out in my mind is DONT TILT

[Hausse 0]

Thank's Gary for the great resumé. My problem is that I really do not feel (and do not have) like playing for that much money. I intended to invest $50 and play the micro tables and $1.10 tourneys. Does that make no sense?

How is the software of the play money tables different?

[Hausse 0]

Oh what I really wanted to know: How long does a normal tourney take? I know it depends on how good I play but assuming that I play long. I just need to know so I don't play and have to stop because of something.

[bigway 4]

playing $1 tables well, thats up to you. I dont get it though as i dont think sitting there playing poker for an hour to win $3 is worth your time but that is up to you.

Software is different because they work on percentages etc, If you are a free money player they will make sure that you get good flops for your hand a certain amount of the time over all your different games so that you start to think you will do well if you play real money games.


The only reason they have free money tables is so they can get you to switch to real money tables so of course they will make the software do what it can so that you start playing real money tables.


If you owned a poker site you would rig the free money section so that the players who are wasting your website and not paying any money start playing for money.. how better to do that than to make the free player start to think he is good.


I dont know, my words are not saying what i want them to. Just use your imagination.


I think playing $1 tables is a waste of time because half the table are not serious players and are just there because they only have a dollar left in their account, the other half are people who are very good at poker and usually retired. It is too up in the air to know how seriosu the player is when it is such small money.

Just my opinion though so take what you want from it.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Hausse 0]

Hey okey I think I might go for a $5 one. That gives me 10 tourneys till I'm out of money and with that hopefully enough to win something.

[bigway 4]

What do you mean 'it gives you 10 tourneys till your out of money'?

Are you not going to play to win?


Remember one thing.... Be patient.

If you are patient and aim to wait until 6 people out of 10 people are left at the table.... If you have good hands come up at this stage you will have a very good chance to win. Do not play shit, do not play hands that could be okay just cause they are suited... PLay premium hands and play tight. Always fold if you are beaten.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[tfelber 0]

I agree with bigway and from what I've noticed he's doing fairly well with his method of play. However, his suggestions are only the starting point, as he very surely knows. The books as he mentioned will get you further into the psychology and strategy of poker.

The first thing is reading your own hand. Next, reading your opponent(s) hand(s). Next, is reading what your opponent thinks you have. etc... And then comes the thought of what do I want my opponent to think I have...

The small money games will be similar to the no money games in the way they play. People will go all-in with nothing hoping to hit something on or before the river. Hell it only cost $1 or $2 and they can get right back in another tourney immediately. That is one of the issues with online gambling. No matter what amount the buy-in is you're never truly out because there will be another just like it starting in a minute or two.

Live tourney's are completely different. Even if the casino has two a day, which they have around here, when you're out you're out... You can't just jump into another tourney because you made a bad play. The WSOP even more so. You wait all year or life for the opportunity are you going to go all-in on the first semi-descent pair of cards your dealt...I think not.

[bigway 4]

Well said.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Darktreader 0]

reading books can totally mess your game up....trust me.... playing styles are different you have play one that siuts you. I doubt many pros would agree with half the crap thats in Doyles book and the other half thinks he 100 percent right. Pick a playing style and then read that book.

as for online play, here goes, for what your doing going from play money to micro limit tourny . Not much difference, a little bit but not much, the players playing those limits are either reallly bad players who have lost all thier money play in higher games and are on tilt so they go play the micro table to cool off, or they are rookie players learning the game, either way every table you sit at will have loose players and tight players, and while it ill be a slightly more realistic game becuase you have 1 dollar on the line, dont expect to bluff in that game and any pair will usaully still call you. Your better off playing single table 10 dollar tounrys then micro in my opinion.

"Before we waste time talking and getting to know each other, let's just have sex once and see if we're compatible"

[Hausse 0]

So I just played my first tournament with $1.10. 3300 entries I was 285. Not bad to begin with.

Statistic:
During current Hold'em session you were dealt 127 hands and saw flop:
- 8 out of 14 times while in big blind (57%)
- 8 out of 15 times while in small blind (53%)
- 40 out of 98 times in other positions (40%)
- a total of 56 out of 127 (44%)
Pots won at showdown - 16 of 22 (72%)
Pots won without showdown - 4

I really like it but it takes forever.
I lost all in at the end with AK agains an A9.

[bigway 4]

That is very good mate. Excellent in fact.
You placed in the top 10% so you should have got paid?

Anyway, you say it is too long, you should try sit n gos then as they only take an hour.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[DARK 0]

do people make regular money out of playing large entry mtt online? i figured if you wanted to earn regular cash it was cash games and stt?

i could be dead wrong tho

[bigway 4]

I got mates who are in the top 10 of MTT on pkr.com. They make a fortune. Thousands per day.

So do all the pros, they make millions from large entiry MTT.


I make a little bit each week in my casino MTT $300 buy-in but online i think it is a different world and do not have the patience.

I think if you stick to sitn gos, say $10 sit n go, play 5 a day you should aim at winning 3 of them
5 a day is $50... Winning 3 of them a day around $210

Then with all the points you accumulate you can enter sattelitte events. Again personally, I would rather play $20-$50 sit n gos or bounty hunter events.

Bounty hunters are easy, you just wait till all the dickheads have gone and then start collecting some cash. I am talking about single table bounty hunters not MTT

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Hausse 0]

Hey yeah I got like 2.80 back so it was pretty good for my first
I'll try a Sit and Go now. What are Bounty hunters?

[BillyVance 34]

I agree with Bigway. I play mostly on Pokerstars. Both in the play money and the real money games. If I'm out of cash, I'll play the highest buy in play money games - 50K or 80K, as the players at those levels tend to play more honest than the free-for-all dickhead fests at the micro level free games.

When I do have money, I play mostly one table sit-n-go games at the $6 buy ins. These games usually last 45 minutes to an hour and 20 minutes and when I win, I get $27. Not bad for one hour average. I also play as high as $23 buy in one table games, and I've won there too.

Just remember that there are always dickheads in poker, regardless of the buyin amount. But generally speaking, the higher the buy-in, the less likely you'll run into a dickhead. When you do, don't butt heads with them. Wait them out, unless you have pocket aces or kings or something and get the perfect flop/situation to play them. If you go all-in preflop, you're still throwing caution to the wind. I've seen more pre-flop all-ins with pocket Aces lose than win.

All that said, for the most bang for your buck, one-table sit-n-gos will get you some good cash when you make the payout, in the least amount of time.

Of course, it depends on your style. I don't have the patience to play a big tourney. You did pretty good with that tourney you just played though. I've done well a few times, like 5th place in a 180 player $4 game for $46 payout. I just prefer the shorter games.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[AirWhore 0]

I play a little online as well and one rule i never break is i never ever play single tables, that is the easiest way for people to share hands. I have never been to a live game and not met someone, who has not or still gets with his buddies and run a table by sharing hands. You cannot beat them and you can usually tell by their betting patterns if they are sharing hands or not...


If you want fast action Play on the Turbo tables....

[DJL 232]

The problem with micro tables is that there are a lot of smart poker players who just don't want to risk losing much, and there are a lot of bad players who suck through to the river and never fold. It's a good learning experience but don't play micro tables very long or else you won't learn good poker.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Hausse 0]

Thanks for all the tips so far.

I have played some this morning and was pretty out of luck. I played a few sit and go's and I was just sol. Every time I had good pocket cards, the flop was crap.

What I found out though:
I don't like the turbo tables since I play just very good hands and the blinds start eating me up when I have a bad streak (and I had quite a few).

[Hausse 0]

Just played another one and finished 4th out of 10. It's just not my lucky day so I'll stop and hope it's better next time.

[packerboy 3]

All this crap that people are telling you about not playing micro-tables is exactly that... crap.

You will see every type of player imaginable at the micro-tables.

Playing good poker is not only about playing cards, but playing the players as well. If you are trying to learn how to play the players, then the micro-tables are the best way to do it. (not free ones though)

By playing these tables and sitting back to watch the action and really, I mean REALLY paying attention to what people are doing, you should soon be able to sort the players into certain categories. If you are going to read any of Doyle Brunson's books (he does make one specifically for online poker), then once you are proficient enough to be able to categorize certain player styles, playing micro-tables will be like shooting fish in a barell.

If you are out to simply have fun playing poker, then you will not want to risk the amount you need to put out to win big money. Micro-tables are the way to go. If you are out to make money, than you should be able to finish in the money 8 out of 10 times on the micro-tables before moving on to larger buy in games. Despite what these people are telling you, a $10 game does not play a whole lot different than a 10c game online other than when you get sucked out, you're out more money. There are donkeys and good players in both. Sure the play is getting a little different in a $100 buy in tournament, but unless you are really good or really rich you will lose these most of the time. Just because people aren't chasing or sucking out, it doesn't mean you are going to beat them easier. Actually, quite the opposite.

Sure maybe a few more people in the micro games are willing to chase, but with a bit of skill under your belt, you will be able to spot these players and know the difference between when they hit and when they do not and use that to your advantage. More skilled players will still chase, but you are less likely to know when they hit. Some of the best players in the world will start with any hand (position considered) if they know that they can outplay the rest of the players in the hand. Although I do conceed that the advice given about playing strong starting hands when you are learning is good advice. To be honest, I wouldn't even play that many hands... you will lose more money starting with J J than you will starting with 9 10.

I won't lie, you will lose to these "loose" players much more than you would like to, but overall with a little info under your belt you will beat them more times than you will lose to them. They are putting the money on the table for you to take.. you just need to chose the right time to take it.

I don't care what anyone says, if I sit down to a poker table with the intention of winning money, I would much rather them be all bad poker players than all good.

If you would like the excitement of being able to win more money with smaller investments (I have been able to parlay a $2.20 buy in to over $1200), play small buy in MTT satellites that will win seats into larger tournaments. Untill you start placing 1 or 2 in large MTT satellites, These satellites spread the prize money (buy ins which you can usually cash out for money) further down the list of winners. Usually a $10 buy in will pay the same amount of cash or buy in credit for every 10 players entered.. ie. 134 entries: top 13 get $100 buy in to larger tournament (sometimes with up to $500K prize money) and spot 14 gets $40. And play tight... really tight in larger tournaments..

BTW... to those that think it's easier to win a big buy in tournament because the players play "real" poker in stead of chasing everything... yes even you Mr 65th on your website or 10th in Australia or whatever you said... I extend the warmest welcome to come play a friendly home game next time you are in Ontario.

You might want to bring a shitload of cash and prepay your hotel room and jumptickets..

Edited to add:

I respectfully disagree with Bigway although his style may do well playing poker online, I think his logic regarding table selection is severly flawed for a newer player. Kinda like a swooper teaching an AFF student how to land a Velocity.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[bigway 4]

Just telling him my opinion mate. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I personally dont even know what a micro table is and i play a different site that does not have as many players as the ones you guys seem to.

MY online strategy, sucks. I win 6-7 times out of 10 but only play online poker due to boredom. I much prefer playing casino cash games. That is my preffered method of poker. $1-$2 blinds or $5/$5

I am not trying to teach the guy anything but to be patient. All i can tell is what i know that works for me.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[packerboy 3]

Small blind live cash games are much different than large blinds for sure.

It is not the same for tournaments.

Micro-tables are smaller buy in 6-10 person sit and go's or large MTT under $1 buy in.

What site do you play at?

I personally like the smaller ones, I get to know the people that I play with with at my level, and see them often. As opposed to the billion or so people on riverstars where you never see the same person twice.

I apologize, I thought you were the one telling him to play larger buy in tables.. like $10 because $1 tables were a waste of time. IMO that's bad advice.

Cheers..

Edited to add:

Quote

On the site i play poker i am currently number 63 ranked for sit n gos around the world for this month and am number 2 ranked for australia this month.
I have also just played in a world class seating tournament where prize money was in the millions and I went very far considering how hard it was playing on the same tables as the poker superstar pros such as scotty nguyen, Joe Hacham etc...

Yeah I guess that was you.....

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson