Icarus Tandem Brake Settings

[JohnGraham 0]

I was curious: Why aren't there any?
As I understand, no brake settings would result in a softer opening (am I correct here?) but would sacrifice consistency/reliability - so why does Icarus not give it's tandem canopy brake settings when most, if not all, other tandem/sport/BASE canopies do?
Are there any other canopies that don't have brake settings?

Thanks,

John G

[RTB 0]

You kind of answered it yourself, it will open to hard.
Or put another way, I guess they didn't get the design to work well with normal break settings and found it better/easier to keep the design and use no breaks.
I know of no other canopies without break settings.

[JohnGraham 0]

Right, but what makes the Icarus Tandem different from other tandem canopies in a way that a non-braked opening is prefferable to an opening in half-brakes?
And like I said doesn't not having deployment brakes reduce opening "niceness"? What is different about the Icarus tandem that makes it open nicer in no-brakes? (or am I wrong in thinking this?)

[atsaubrey 0]

Don't forget the Precision Tandem as well. Although I think they are technically the same canopy.

"GOT LEAD?"

[beezyshaw 0]

All the test jumps on the prototypes of the Icarus Tandem were done by myself and Charlie Mullins, when Precision was manufacturing the Icarus product line. The canopy was of course designed by Paul Martyn (JYRO). In finalizing the design, once we were satisfied with flight characteristics, the last steps are usually slider size and brake settings, to provide the best combination(s) for good openings.

In jumping the test canopies with many different placements of the brake cat's eyes, we continued to agree that the closer the cat's eye to the toggle, the softer the openings. When the deployment brakes were in what would be considered a "normal" setting, the openings were always "firm". Not any harder than some tandem mains made by other manufacturers, but certainly firm. Our thinking was that if we could provide a superior flying tandem that opened softly then we would have a product that would really be a winner with tandem instuctors.

By the time we had what we considered the best openings, the brakes were set so shallow that it seemed rediculous to even have deployment brakes. One of the important reasons for brakes is to slow forward speed at opening so as to reduce the likelyhood of a canopy collision. As tandem canopies are never in close proximity to other canopies at opening time, this was a non-issue. Thus the decision to eliminate the deployment brakes on the canopy.

[AggieDave 6]

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As tandem canopies are never in close proximity to other canopies at opening time, this was a non-issue

I've had to rear riser my tandems while opening to get away from a skydiver that should have known better. He was lurking a tandem that a good friend of his was on, the skydiver has a few thousand jumps, but tracked away like a 50-jump wonder. He then had an off heading opening. Basically my point is, shit happens sometimes and there is never a situation in skydiving that I've encountered in which "never" is a truth.

After that jump, I tactfully and respectfully talked to the jumper and it has been a non-issue since.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[beezyshaw 0]

I suppose I should have said tandems "should" never be in close proximity to others; certainly never say "never"

[RTB 0]

I'm no designer of canopies but I know that really small differences between canopies in line trim, shape, the way reinforcement tapes are sewn, crossports, etc. can make a noticeable difference. Even for a manufacturer it could be difficult to describe to a layman the exact things that make one canopy behave and feel different from another.

[JohnGraham 0]

Thanks muchly for that reply!
I thought that the deployment brakes are also supposed to stop the nose of the canopy "folding under" itself on deployment? Does that just happen to be a non-issue on this particular canopy?

[beezyshaw 0]

As I've never (in many, many jumps on these canopies) experienced anything like the nose "folding under", I think it's safe to say it's a non-issue in this case.

[A2C 0]

Test Report: no break set with Stilleto 120 (w/l 1.5)
(Not new with lines 300 or so jumps after reline)
90% of couple hundred jumps, very nice'n soft and on heading openings.
10%, hard spin like Icarus Tandem sometime does.
only one "folding under", it's got be the last test jump for me though, I could make it back to normal by a little pump with rear risers,
This is not recommendation to sacrifice yourself to other test.

[Spizzzarko 0]

I have jumped the spectre 170 several times without the brakes set. The centre cell would inflate, and the outer cells would streamer behind the canopy. I had to pull quite a bit on the rears to get it to inflate.

[JohnMitchell 14]

That's one situation where there should have been vertical separation.

[riggerrob 562]

SET 400s tend to fold-under if you are lazy about replacing suspension lines. If you make more than 400 jumps on a line set, the outer A lines get so short that the end cells don't inflate initially. It looks spectacular, but is easily solved by flaring.

Hint, Strong Enterprises recommends relining after 300 or 350 jumps.

[AggieDave 6]

I've known that jumper for a few years, very very experienced jumper and is fairly well known as a very experienced and heads up jumper. The jumper has kept current, basically the jumper just screwed up. I screwed up by not stressing this safety concern in more detail prior to the jump. We ran through the safety briefing relatively quickly, especially since this jumper has lurked tandems before and has lurked tandems with me before.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bob.dino 0]

When I tried that on my Spectre 190, I needed to grab the toggles and go to half-brakes to get it to inflate.

[Spizzzarko 0]

Those spectres are fun little canopies aren't they.

[bob.dino 0]

Indeedy. Drew Lipinski (#6 at the WCCP before last) was raving about them last weekend. I've loads of fun on mine

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