Nitro 150- Too much or Good to go

[Skindog2288 0]

Whats goin on guys. So im going for my first rig and came across a solid set up that has a Nitro 150 as a main. I rocked AFF in 3 days on a 235 and then went to a 170 at 10 jumps and then took it down to a sabre2 150 for my last three jumps, i havent had any issues so far and land on my feet everytime. Everyone at the DZ has said im super heads up and killen it and you wouldnt think im only at 35 jumps. I dont want to get ahead of myself or sound to cocky but i also dont want to purchase a canopy and then get bored with it too quick. Id rather get something that i can grow into and dial in with a few high openings at first. With my weight the wing loading would be at 1.2 on a 150. Id imagine ill be around 50 jumps by time i actually get the rig. No one at the DZ knows much at Nitros nor has any got the chance to try one. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks alot.

[NWFlyer 2]

No.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[porpoishead 5]

where do you jump at?

are you right handed or left handed?

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[wildcard451 0]

Wow.

[porpoishead 5]

fuck that brandon...no way I got $100 on left leg by #150 might even do a side bet on that mug..depending on what helmet hes wearing

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[ShayneH 0]

Here's the thing... I bet that if someone gave you a crossbraced sub 100sq ft canopy, you could probably land it standing up just fine coming straight in. But the landing isn't the main problem. It's the performance of the canopy and how it plays into hairy situations, ie being in a bad spot <500ft, canopy collision avoidance, etc.

With that being said, my question for you would be how often do you plan on jumping? Currency is everything. When I was at 40 jumps and didn't know any better, someone sold me a fully elliptical canopy (samurai 170). There was a big fuss around the DZ I was at at the time. But since I was jumping 10+ times a week and getting great advice/coaching, I managed to learn to fly it. Does that mean I should have been on a high performance canopy at 40 jumps? No. But I had some positive factors going for me.

Anywho, with all that said, the Nitro is semi-elliptical. I wouldn't recommend it at a 1.2wl for someone fresh off AFF. But if you're planning on making lots of jumps, have access to good advice, and can control yourself (not flying aggressively, swooping, etc), it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Maybe if you bought the setup, your home DZ could loan you a 170 to throw in your container until you hit 100 jumps or so?

[billvon 2,471]

> Id rather get something that i can grow into and dial in with a few high
> openings at first.

Why not get something you can learn on and that will keep you from getting hurt when you make your first few mistakes?

>No one at the DZ knows much at Nitros nor has any got the chance to try
>one.

I've jumped Nitros from 108 to 150. They are quite fast canopies, a little less aggressive than a Crossfire, considerably more aggressive than a Sabre2. Sensitive on brakes, not as long as a recovery arc.

With the Sabre2 150 you are already way beyond even the more aggressive limits for your experience. Per Brian's chart (linked below) a 210 would be a good size to learn on, with the smallest you'd want to go as a 170. If you are currently jumping a Sabre2 150 I would:

1) Be careful
2) Get canopy coaching AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
3) Learn to fly it well before moving on. Being really careful and landing standing up is not learning to fly it.

www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

[kkeenan 13]

Has this become the canned script for Trolls ? The only thing missing is the mention of Mad Skillz.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[ShayneH 0]

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Has this become the canned script for Trolls ? The only thing missing is the mention of Mad Skillz.

Seriously...? It may sound trollish and repetitive to you because you have 4000+ jumps and have probably seen a ton of threads exactly like it. Think about it: he's new to the sport, super excited to get into it, and obviously doesn't have a ton of knowledge. And if the people at his home DZ don't know much about said canopy, this seems like the next best thing.

Instead of cracking jokes about students' 'mad skillz,' how about offering them a bit of constructive advice?

[erdnarob 1]

I recommend you to stay jumping with a Sabre 2. This canopy is just fine for your number of jumps and can be challenging at best if you push it enough but right now keep the challenge for later. As several people mentioned it, when things are OK or normal, any canopies or so are OK. But when things go wrong, beware of fully elliptical canopies like the Nitro, Nitron, Crossfire, Katana, Mamba etc...They can have extremely violent reaction needing almost instant emergency procedures. If you haven't been trained on a suspended harness for cut away procedures and do it regularly, you are maybe at risk if jumping those fully elliptical canopies.
I have jumped the Nitro 150 twice (loaded at 1.8) and I like it but I prefer my Katana 170 which is more "flexible" and easier on the toggles while the Nitro is quite stiffer and having short range on toggles. I have also jumped twice the Nitron 190, a nice parachute with powerful flare quite comparable to the German Nitro.
At 35 jumps, you will have a lot of fun and challenge with a Sabre 2 or a Storm as well.
A friend of mine who has a small Sabre 2 and who has more than a thousand jumps fly it at high speed and does beautiful carving landings with it. Don't do that now. I am just telling you that a Sabre 2 will fit your needs for a long time. You should also think about taking a canopy piloting course with specialists.
Better safe than sorry.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[porpoishead 5]

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Has this become the canned script for Trolls ? The only thing missing is the mention of Mad Skillz.

no kevin, i believe he covered that

from his post

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Everyone at the DZ has said im super heads up and killen it and you wouldnt think im only at 35 jumps

and the reason it sounds trollish is, there is no need to say such stupid shit, if you are gathering information to make an informed decision about gear choices... especially when it pertains to lifesaving equipment that has a potential to severely injure and kill yourself and others around you when used without adequate experience....

keep it fucking real.............any body can bring anything straight in, but things aren't always that peachy....you fuck up low under a high performance wing and you will get broke the fuck up and possibly take somebody out with you.......

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[Skindog2288 0]

I hope to be jumping 8 or more times a week. Right now Im spending the weekends at Vermont Skydiving Adventures just outside of burlington vermont. Its the only place ive jumped so far but i like it a lot cause its a awesome group of people and everyones real close so im constantly being coached and getting advice after every jump. Cross Keys NJ is 20 minutes from where i live so once i get my own rig and some more experience ill head there as much as i can but for now im content with goin to vermont since its not as high a volume DZ.

Some of you guys are vicious on here. Im admitting i know nothing about the sport compared to all of you which is why im looking for advice not people taking bets on when im gonna wreck haha

[Skindog2288 0]

Alex.... lets pump the brakes and relax bud... theres no need to get this fired up because in your eyes i made a poor choice in words on the original post. My apologies. I was simply throwin it out there that ive been told im doing really well and that might make a difference in my canopy choice as opposed to someone who is struggling with canopy control.

[yoink 321]

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Some of you guys are vicious on here. Im admitting i know nothing about the sport compared to all of you which is why im looking for advice not people taking bets on when im gonna wreck haha

Fine. The advice is:

You are seriously pushing the limits with your current canopy choice. No matter how good it's been going so far you are on a incredibly dangerous path at the moment.

The Nitro is in no way a suitable canopy for you.

[jdfreefly 1]

If you are that close, you should go to crosskeys with a case of beer and seek out:
Dave Pankake
Rob Stanley
Mark Kruse
That's a few names of people I learned from and would trust, but there are many others there. If Kruse suggests you move on to tequila, my advice is that you call it a night, that's more dangerous than you on a nitro 150.

Offer to share your beer with them if they sit down and talk to you about what a sensible canopy progression looks like. Do very little talking and a lot of listening.

trolls....I like to feed to them

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[porpoishead 5]

no worries bro I'm relaxed...

be safe out there its easier and much more forgiving to learn to fly a larger canopy then progressively go to a smaller one increasing your wingloading and subsequently the performance of the canopy, as things will happen a lot faster as you increase the wingload.

it sounds vicious because it is exactly what it is...it is very unforgiving when people fuck up in this sport, and this rings true regardless of experience... often times in the past not only have poor or stubborn gear choices from the inexperienced caused brutal and vicious injury or loss of life to the jumper, but to others around as well.

again be safe out there and make informed choices...know your gear

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[D22369 0]

-->Some of you guys are vicious on here.

I guess we become jaded after offering advice time and time again only to have it rejected and then seeing or hearing that the lowtimer recieved a lifeflight- or worse.

something to think about other than your own safety is the higher the wingload you fly, the easier it will be to run someone down in flight or hit someone on landing - speeds will be higher and your bubble of awareness isnt as big as it will be in 500 jumps so you will be playing catch up, and it can get ugly very fast.

the nitro isnt a canopy to be learning on, believe it or not it will probably stunt your learning compared to a more docile canopy at this stage. pull up billvons checklist and see how much of it you can do on a larger canopy - there is tons to learn on a slow parachute that many overlook.

I admit that I am a canopy nazi, I have been accused of being a jerk, being overprotective, and deliberately keeping others from jumping higher wingloads to hog all the glory for myself- *(the last accusation made me laugh my ass off cuz he was serious)

once you see someone pound in and not get up on a canopy they had no buisness flying it will stay with you forever, and the sound of a human body breaking isnt something you can forget.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[ShayneH 0]

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-->Some of you guys are vicious on here.

I guess we become jaded after offering advice time and time again only to have it rejected and then seeing or hearing that the lowtimer recieved a lifeflight- or worse

Roy, I agree with you that it must be extremely frustrating to have that happen repetitively. However, you can't let one group ruin it for the others. If you repeat yourself 1,000 times and your advice is only taken seriously by 1 person, that's still 1 person's well being that is saved by your advice.

As for the other 999... Here is my personal opinion. Some schools argue that giving out condoms promotes teen sex, and some folks protest against clinics that offer sterile needles to junkies becuase it advocates drug use. But the truth is, people are stubborn dumbfucks. Plain and simple. If an individual is determined to do something, he or she is going to do it. Simply telling them 'no' doesn't usually work. The best option that you have left is to educate them on the dangers of the activity and provide them with the tools (coaching/advice) they need to stay safe.

Obviously if this was happening at your dropzone, you could put your foot down and not allow them to jump. But since this is a student from another DZ out of your control, take the time to offer the best advice you can because maybe the staff at their DZ isn't doing a good job.

Just my 2 cents. Cheers

[ShayneH 0]

Skindog, it sounds like you're at a small cessna DZ down the road from a turbine one. You have the best of both worlds here. Take advantage of the personal atmosphere of the small DZ by getting coaching and advice becuase that doesn't always come easy at a large turbine tandem factory. Then, take what you learn to the turbine DZ for a day or two out of the weeks to crank out the numbers and reinforce the knowledge.

And keep in mind, I still agree with all the folks that say you shouldn't be on that canopy. There are plenty of great setups for students to learn on floating around this website, ebay, gear stores, etc. I would highly recommend jumping a 170, and working your way down to that 150 sabre2. With a 1.2 wingloading, by the time you get 2 or 300 jumps, you'll be swooping the piss out of it. Also, saffire2 is a great beginner/intermediate canopy.

[billvon 2,471]

>I was simply throwin it out there that ive been told im doing really well
>and that might make a difference in my canopy choice . . .

Definitely. If you are indeed doing really, really well in canopy control, and are a natural, and getting good coaching - you MAY be OK under the Sabre2 150. But know that you are pushing the limit there very hard, and there's no margin at all.

[D22369 0]

Roy, I agree with you that it must be extremely frustrating to have that happen repetitively. However, you can't let one group ruin it for the others. If you repeat yourself 1,000 times and your advice is only taken seriously by 1 person, that's still 1 person's well being that is saved by your advice. ***

good point and very true.

I gave up on one lowtimer years ago, he knew everything - and I mean everything - in his mind he should have been just given an instructor rating without attending the course or having the required number of jumps *(not joking) , he ignored every bit of advice from all of us instructors (not just me) and was told he could not jump at our dropzone anymore because he was a hazard to himself and everyone, his excuse was we just didnt know how easily skills came to him, and nothing that happened was his fault - he had many many excuses

when he left we all sat around and someone suggested bounce bingo...

I contacted the closest two dz's and informed them about him, his attitude, his skills and his canopy choice.

one dz turned him away after an evaluation dive with which he pulled low and had a really bad attempt at a high performance landing *(with the excuses of why it wasnt his fault), the other gave him the green light to jump.

I was off by less than a week on the bounce bingo... I never took the money, and felt sick that I even played - rather than throwing my hands up in frustration after many attempts to get him to listen, I wish I had tried one more time to get through to him even though I know it probably wouldnt have made even the slightest difference.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[davelepka 4]

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you MAY be OK under the Sabre2 150. But know that you are pushing the limit there very hard, and there's no margin at all.

Who are these people giving a guy with 35 jumps a Sabre2 150 loaded at 1.2?

A new jumpers wants to buy a Sabre2 150 - I get it.

A new jumper actually buys a Sabre2 150 - I get it.

A new jumper borrows a Sabre2 150 - I get it.

All the above are the independent actions of a newbie who doesn't have the experience to know any better. From the sound of this guy, he was downsized from a 235 to a 170 at 10 jumps, and then to the Sabre2 150 only 20 jumps later by the staff of the DZ he jumps at.

What rock has that staff been living under?

[catfishhunter 1]

Sure go ahead and jump it make sure to get video and remember feet and knees together and if it all goes to hell, I'll be fine so no worries

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[craigbey 0]

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Id rather get something that i can grow into and dial in with a few high openings at first.

As you've already noticed, it only takes a few jumps to 'dial in' a canopy. You can save $$$ and just borrow or demo different canopies. At 8 - 10 jumps a week, you could be jumping a x-brace at 2:1 by September!

And when you can take a break from 'killen it', take a picture of your schlong. It must be HUGE.

TROLL

[Titanman2789 0]

I don't see what the big deal is. He's asking if the Nitro is too much or if he should get it. Bottom line - the answer from most everyone is no, stick with the Sabre2 150 or 170.
There is no reason to be suggesting bets on when he will bounce under it. He hasn't made up his mind yet, just looking for some advice.

I agree though with sticking with the sabre2. You're worried about being on a canopy that you'll get bored with quickly, but based on what billvon said the nitro has a shorter recovery arc than a sabre2. Sounds like it probably turns faster on the toggles too - which is fun, sure, but in my opinion, you will get more out of a sabre2 at your experience. Plus the sabre2 is more suitable for learning swoop landings. You may not feel ready for it now, but you may want to learn to do them in the future and that sabre2 will still be fun and more forgiving when you screw up a low turn learning to swoop.
As for the size of the canopy, like others have said you will probably be just fine on a sabre2 150. You're heads up and have good canopy control but it sounds like you are at a small cessna dropzone. It's pretty easy to be "heads up" when you have 3 other canopies in the air (that are all probably landing before you since they are more experienced.) If you want to go to CK soon, I would suggest you consider the 170 because flying in a canopy pattern with a bunch of idiots makes canopy control a whole lot different than following the other 3 guys that were in the 182 with you back to the landing area. Not that jumpers at CK are idiots, but there are those yahoos under canopy everywhere that don't jump that regularly and you will have no idea what they are thinking in the pattern