Uninvited Guest; Extra Adrenaline

[Jewels 0]

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Lucky he wasn't found in our house, he'd been chewing on either fiocchi #4 buck or Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124gr +P.
No questions asked.
No excuses taken.
Dead or dying intruder.

Protect your family/property first, then dial 911.

you'd kill a person over trivial property

I won't speak for ChileR, but as for me:
I would not kill merely over property, but I would kill to protect my family, or even my own sorry ass.

This was a nighttime burglary of an occupied residence (assuming the intruder was lying, which I think is a reasonable presumption). In most US jurisdictions - and the OP can verify or correct this, as she's an attorney, too - burglary of an occupied structure, especially a residence, especially at night, is considered by law to be a crime of danger to persons, warranting enhanced penalties (compared to burglary of an unoccupied structure).

So for me, a crime of danger to the persons in my home constitutes a physical attack against the persons in my home, warranting the use of deadly force in response.

In Colorado, we have what's commonly known as the "Make My Day" law that allows homeowners to use deadly force once someone actually enters the home if they have entered for an illegal purpose. It's controversial enough that I'm not going to say more than that because this isn't intended to be a thread for SC. Suffice it to say that once the intruder was over our threshhold, we had tremendous latitude in terms of what we legally could have done in response to his presence in our home. The REAL point is that there was no need. Our end goal was to get the guy to leave without anyone being hurt, and that's what we accomplished. I'd like to see the man caught, of course, but there are plenty of legal consequences that I'd be satisfied with before seeing anyone injured or killed.

TPM Sister #102

[redramdriver 0]

I have 2 loaded sidearms in my home. My wife and I know the location of each of these sidearms at a seconds notice. We have each attended self defense classes, and firearms self defense classes. It would be very eash for an intruder to know when we leave for work each day. I leave very early in the am, usually within 10 minutes one way or the other of the same time each day, as well a my wife's departure time. Usually, upon visual clues, ie a loaded firearm pointing right at your chest, and a verbal command to get out, an intruder will usually comply and leave the way they came in very rapidly. But, there are some that just don't get it. The point of pulling the trigger comes into play when the intruder makes a move toward you. It's that simple. Complete 100% self defense, in fear of your life. If your going to own a sidearm for self defense, keep it loaded, know where it is, be prepared to use it if you have to, and get the training necessary to use it properly. It's that simple. If you want to trust your life to electronic warning equipment, thats your choice. I trust my Glock. My wife prefers her Rugger. Just my opinion.

So, you bring your beer?

Its 5 o'clock somewhere
POPS #9344

[ChileRelleno 0]

In response to the question directed at me, those who've answered in the mean time and other associated comments/questions in this thread.
Most of which have covered my thoughts/reasoning very well.
................................

Would I use deadly force to protect my private (trivial) property?
I have no trivial property, I've worked hard and spent my hard earned money on all of it.
Will I use deadly force to protect my 46" LCD flatscreen? Irrelevant, the flatscreen doesn't have a life/well being at risk... However...
My house is my property, my family is generally in the house.
Anyone who enters the property uninvited and in the commission of a crime, is automatically a dire/deadly threat to myself and my family.

Yes, I will use deadly force to 'Stop The Threat'.
And yes, that is the politically correct term to be used... And if you ever do have to use deadly force, you better damned well have all such correct terms and answers ready for instant reply in the following police investigation and courts.

I do not shoot to kill/wound, shooting to do any other than 'Stop The Threat" (Such as intentionally wound for purpose of incapacitation.) is both stupid/dangerous for multiple reasons.
Both for physical safety from the threat and protecting your self and family from loss of physical/financial freedoms in the aftermath.

You best know why you picked your particular weapon, ammo, holster, and be able to explain why.
You best have sought training in the when where and how, local/state legal aspects, and firearm safety/accuracy in association with the use of deadly force.
You best have covered your ass, because chances are the law/lawyers will attempt to roast it over a open fire.

Take classes, read books and pay heed to others past experiences.

I could care less about stating my particular choices in ammo.
My choices are well researched and based on proven data to be amongst the best choices for home/self defense.
And I'm ready and able to explain the inherent properties which make them such, e.g. less chance of over penetration. This makes my family, neighbors and innocent bystanders safer from over penetration, ricochets and fragmentation.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[JohnRich 4]

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As for the guns, we have some but I don't want to send this to SC. We're okay, thankfully, and we live in a good neighborhood.

You just proved that living in a "good" neighborhood doesn't exclude you from crime, or the need for a gun. In fact, the criminals like good neighborhoods, because that's where the expensive stuff is to steal.

Like the old joke: Why do bank robbers rob banks?
Answer: "Because that's where the money is."

Glad you're okay. I'm sure you'll be re-examining your personal security measures. Especially, how to take care of yourself if something like that happens again, and your husband is not home.

[JohnRich 4]

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a man was standing there at the window, trying to put the screen back in.

doesn't make sense

He probably didn't want to leave it laying outside because that would look out of the ordinary and draw someone's attention that something is amiss. He wanted to make it look like a normal untouched window.

When my neighbor was burglarized last year, the bum drew the front curtains shut so that he could work inside without anyone seeing him move around inside. And that's how the resident knew something was wrong when she came back home, because she always leaves the curtains open.

[theonlyski 3]

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Again, if someone is in my home in the middle of the night, I'll assume he is there to rape or kill me (or both), not to steal "trivial property". I'm not sure how I'd react, but getting into a conversation with the intruder about his exact intentions won't be part of it.

Note to self: Do NOT spend the night at Olympias house!!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[OlympiaStoica 0]

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Again, if someone is in my home in the middle of the night, I'll assume he is there to rape or kill me (or both), not to steal "trivial property". I'm not sure how I'd react, but getting into a conversation with the intruder about his exact intentions won't be part of it.

Note to self: Do NOT spend the night at Olympias house!!

LOL!!! Come on, you know what I mean. Than again, maybe I'm single because I've shot dead all of my boyfriends ...

O

[sartre 0]

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I always get a chuckle at threads like this in which, usually intelligent people get all John Wayne about how, why and what they would use to kill another human being in their home.

Well said.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I am really glad nothing bad happened to you or your family.


I cannot state strongly enough that you should have been armed in order to deal a potentially life threatening event like that.

Damn woman, take responsibility for your own safety!


PLEASE

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Lucky he wasn't found in our house, he'd been chewing on either fiocchi #4 buck or Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124gr +P.
No questions asked.
No excuses taken.
Dead or dying intruder.

Protect your family/property first, then dial 911.

I would have offered him a drink of water.







I would never refuse a dying person a drink of water


Break in... and I assume you are here to murder.



I can think of a few women on this forum that need to make sure they can defend themselves from an armed attacker.

I also know of one or two that would make a mess in their home and need a HAZMAT team to clean up an intruders remains.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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shoot to disable.

There's no such thing, if you shoot someone you are using deadly force.

I think the OP's hubby did the right thing.

He was 'surprised' by the intruder and quickly removed the threat as best he could by verbal command...then called the police.

If you live in a nice neighborhood, haven't had a rash of burglaries and believe a noise is the wind...you probably aren't walking around the house armed and at condition one.

If ya ARE, you may have other issues.



I always get a chuckle at threads like this in which, usually intelligent people get all John Wayne about how, why and what they would use to kill another human being in their home.

I'm definitely not saying to become a victim or allow yourself or loved ones to be harmed...deadly force IS sometimes the only viable option.

But I speak from experience when I say you don't just blow the smoke from the barrel of your gun and go back to bed after something like that.

That course of action will have a negatively adverse effect on your life for a period of time...possibly financially, certainly emotionally...and if someone were to dig up an obscure Internet thread in which you discuss at length exactly which hollow point you would use and where you plan to place the shot, you just may come off in court as crazy as the guy you ventilated on the living room carpet.

And a quick word of advise should the situation arise, you weren't shooting to disable or maim...not even to 'kill'.
You were trying to STOP the 'evil doer' from harming you.

'Speciality Ammunition'?
Don't know anything about that your Honor, I just bought what the gun store guy said I needed.

Jim, some of us have things in the house we must retain custodial control over.

I don't think anyone would want something from a collection out on the streets in the hands of a criminal.


I know you understand what I mean.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Again, if someone is in my home in the middle of the night, I'll assume he is there to rape or kill me (or both), not to steal "trivial property". I'm not sure how I'd react, but getting into a conversation with the intruder about his exact intentions won't be part of it.

The world is very different when you're a woman dealing with a criminal than a man. I would hope to have time to tell the intruder to freeze. If they froze or ran out, fine. If they advance towards me, that would be hostile intent and I would feel justified in using deadly force. I don't favor deadly force to protect property, even when it's legal. With that said, I'm much happier when the laws favor the homeowner instead of the intruder. I would hate to have laws as in Britain, where the homeowner goes to jail for shooting an intruder.

[theonlyski 3]

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Again, if someone is in my home in the middle of the night, I'll assume he is there to rape or kill me (or both), not to steal "trivial property". I'm not sure how I'd react, but getting into a conversation with the intruder about his exact intentions won't be part of it.

The world is very different when you're a woman dealing with a criminal than a man. I would hope to have time to tell the intruder to freeze. If they froze or ran out, fine. If they advance towards me, that would be hostile intent and I would feel justified in using deadly force. I don't favor deadly force to protect property, even when it's legal. With that said, I'm much happier when the laws favor the homeowner instead of the intruder. I would hate to have laws as in Britain, where the homeowner goes to jail for shooting an intruder.

I seem to recall a case where the intruder got shot, then sued the homeowner because he perminatly disabled the guy... and won.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[OlympiaStoica 0]

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Again, if someone is in my home in the middle of the night, I'll assume he is there to rape or kill me (or both), not to steal "trivial property". I'm not sure how I'd react, but getting into a conversation with the intruder about his exact intentions won't be part of it.

The world is very different when you're a woman dealing with a criminal than a man. I would hope to have time to tell the intruder to freeze. If they froze or ran out, fine. If they advance towards me, that would be hostile intent and I would feel justified in using deadly force. I don't favor deadly force to protect property, even when it's legal. With that said, I'm much happier when the laws favor the homeowner instead of the intruder. I would hate to have laws as in Britain, where the homeowner goes to jail for shooting an intruder.

Note to self: never move to Britain (I almost did 3 years ago) ... unless I have a big, mean, burly live-in boyfriend ...

O

[JohnRich 4]

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I seem to recall a case where the intruder got shot, then sued the homeowner because he perminatly disabled the guy... and won.

Feel free to do nothing to defend yourself, so that you can become the one who is permanently disabled.
But not to worry, your attacker won't be able to sue you!

If you fail to defend yourself in a lawful situation because of fear of a lawsuit from the attacker, then you're a _____.

It reminds me of another thread where some people were indicating that they were so afraid that their reserve parachute might malfunction, that they would hesitate to use it in an emergency.

[theonlyski 3]

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I seem to recall a case where the intruder got shot, then sued the homeowner because he perminatly disabled the guy... and won.

Feel free to do nothing to defend yourself, so that you can become the one who is permanently disabled.
But not to worry, your attacker won't be able to sue you!

If you fail to defend yourself in a lawful situation because of fear of a lawsuit from the attacker, then you're a _____.

It reminds me of another thread where some people were indicating that they were so afraid that their reserve parachute might malfunction, that they would hesitate to use it in an emergency.

Oh, dont get me wrong, if someone is breaking in to my house, theyll get one warning, then 2 in the chest, one in the head.

And dont yall start flaming me, its how we're taught to shoot, so it would be MUCH harder for me to just shoot once.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[JohnRich 4]

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I always get a chuckle at threads like this in which, usually intelligent people get all John Wayne about how, why and what they would use to kill another human being in their home.

Well said.

Do you think that ordinary people are incapable of adequately defending themselves in their homes or with guns?

Here's a quick sampler of news stories for you:

http://www.kxnt.com/Resident-Opens-Fire-During-Home-Invasion/4630761

http://www.koaa.com/aaaa_top_stories/x1085569239/Bear-shot-to-death-after-breaking-into-home

http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=74928&catid=2

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/108501.html

http://www.kpho.com/news/19791931/detail.html

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6851011

http://www.click2houston.com/news/19752634/detail.html

Would you like some more stories of what you deem an improbable event?

[Jewels 0]

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I am really glad nothing bad happened to you or your family.


I cannot state strongly enough that you should have been armed in order to deal a potentially life threatening event like that.

Damn woman, take responsibility for your own safety!


PLEASE

LOL! Thanks, EVERYONE, for the concern about my safety. There ARE guns in the house. The issue was not that we didn't have guns available to us. As my husband has said more than once, you just don't grab a gun when you think you're just going in the other room to close a window. The whole thing took place in under a minute and was a complete surprise.

The point about safety is not taken lightly, of course. I understand what you're saying about being prepared and do not disagree with it. It would have been different, I think, if either of us had realized it was a person IN OUR HOME. Once you're there and in the middle of it, though, when the intruder has already seen you before you realize what's going on, I think you make different decisions. But yes, being prepared is important!

TPM Sister #102