buying my first rig...

[Zook 0]

hallo every1.

I'm quite new 2 this amazing sport, and the time has come 2 buy my first rig.

I've sat my sights on a 3y old Javelin with Sabre 170, PD 160r and a 3y old cypress.

The guy selling it want about 3,600USD. Is that a reasonable price for it??

All coments R wellcomed.....

[outlawphx 1]

Is it a Sabre or a Sabre2? How many jumps on it?

[Zook 0]

Saber 2
300 jumps on main and container
1 on reserve
Cypress will need service in about 1 year

[robconway 0]

well....it is alot of money but at least you get a cypress. you have to think about how many jumps are you actualy gunna put on it b4 you down size. this being your 1st set-up i imagine you will be downsizing sooner than you think and 3600 is alot of money to piss away. i just bought my 1st set-up not to long ago and i got it for under $1000! its a vector2 with a brand new 185turbo z main(1jump) and a raven 1 res(0jumps). and yes, i got it off of DZ.com. i think the main problem you will have with that rig is trying to get your money out of it....and id make sure that cypress has at least 8to10years left on it. my advice.....part the rig out in your mind or on paper and do the math....the decison is totaly up to you. Good Luck and Blue Skies, Rob

[riggerrob 561]

Zook,

How much do you weigh?

How many jumps do you have?

Which canopies have you jumped recently?

How far do you land from the target?

How many stand-up landings do you have?

What do your local instructors and coaches say about this choice of gear?

[Tink1717 2]

Too much. WAY too much.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Zook 0]

Hi

The senior rigger at my DZ is the one who recomanded this rig for me.
I've been jumping a 230 student canopies and landing on my feet almost every time (43/47) and that's including my aff course.

my question is more about the price, and less about my ability to land it. The instroctors at my DZ said I wouldn't have any problems with it.

10x again

[arlo 0]

your senior rigger recommended you go from a 230 sq ft canopy to a 170 sq ft canopy?

[larsrulz 0]

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Too much. WAY too much.

Why do you say? I bought a wings, sabre1 190, raven-M 218, and cypres (all DOM 2000) last summer for about $3900. I turned around this past winter and sold the cypres for $725 and the rig w/out cypres for $3000. Cost me $175 for a season and about 250 jumps. The above all seems to be good equipment which will keep its resale value for the next few years, so simply dismissing it isn't necessary.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[robconway 0]

what is your body weight? that is a huge jump in canopies! make sure you check your wing loading.

[Zook 0]

I weigh about 75 kg (165 lbs)
I'm about 1.75 m (5'9")

I must say this. every skydiver I know from my DZ went stright from a 230 to a 170 (or 190 if it's a realy big guy). Is it realy that big a leap 2 make??

[outlawphx 1]

I'd say the price is pretty reasonable. Maybe try to haggle down a couple hundred bucks.

[scottbre 0]

I went from a 220 to a 170 after about 100 jumps. I had no issues with it at all.

"Your mother's full of stupidjuice!"
My Art Project

[robconway 0]

well....with your body weight you will definatly notice a big difference. we weigh about the same and i got a 185turbo z 9cell and its plenty for me. just make sure you watch your low turns and you should be fine. I went from a 275 to a 220 to a 190 to my current canopy....the 1st 2 where student rigs...i borrowed a couple different ZP 190's.

[skybytch 259]

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just make sure you watch your low turns and you should be fine.

What if he finds himself heading downwind at 50 feet on his first jump on that 170? What if someone cuts him off on final on his first jump on that 170? You have no idea what kind of training he's received, no idea how well he flies a pattern, no idea if he even knows what a flat turn is much less if he practices them...

Please. If your profile is correct you have no business telling anyone that they "should be fine" under any canopy.

[Brian425 0]

The price sounds reasonable. I think that the key would be to get one of your old instructors or S&TA to go over the gear choice with you. When I bought my rig, my instructors helped me out a TON. I bought all my gear used at my DZ. My canopy is a snug fit in my container now and will easily allow for some downsizing in the future. I think that the priorities should be:

1) Safe for you at your level right now.
2) Some room for you to grow in the sport without having to start all over again with a shole new set up.

Money is important obviously; but, if you have $3,600 hundred to spend, you should easily be able to find a complete rig or build a complete that will meet all your needs.

Better to be conservative now. I will give you some room for the newbie mistakes we all make.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[GravityGirl 0]

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well....it is alot of money but at least you get a cypress. you have to think about how many jumps are you actualy gunna put on it b4 you down size. this being your 1st set-up i imagine you will be downsizing sooner than you think and 3600 is alot of money to piss away. i just bought my 1st set-up not to long ago and i got it for under $1000! its a vector2 with a brand new 185turbo z main(1jump) and a raven 1 res(0jumps). and yes, i got it off of DZ.com. i think the main problem you will have with that rig is trying to get your money out of it....and id make sure that cypress has at least 8to10years left on it. my advice.....part the rig out in your mind or on paper and do the math....the decison is totaly up to you. Good Luck and Blue Skies, Rob

First of all: Apples to Oranges here. He is considering good, modern, safe gear. And it is priced very good. The resale value is great for this set up. I would be willing to bet he could put 100 jumps on it and sell it for virtually the same price.

So I have no clue where you are coming up with the idea that he won't get his moneys worth.

To answer the original question. The price is good. What you need to consider is the fit and sizing for your specific needs.

Go to the Javelin web site and download an order form. Take your measurements. You can PM me if you want, and I can help you determine the fit of this particular rig.

Have you consulted your instructors about canopy sizes?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Frenchy68 0]

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just make sure you watch your low turns and you should be fine.

What if he finds himself heading downwind at 50 feet on his first jump on that 170? What if someone cuts him off on final on his first jump on that 170? You have no idea what kind of training he's received, no idea how well he flies a pattern, no idea if he even knows what a flat turn is much less if he practices them...

Please. If your profile is correct you have no business telling anyone that they "should be fine" under any canopy.

In my extremely limited experience:
I so agree.
Landing a canopy in "regular" conditions is one thing. Having to land it in "extreme" conditions is what matters. Knowing the canopy's ability, and as importantly its limitations, is what I think (once again, as a newbie) will determine the outcome of an "unusual" canopy ride.
I feel that it is not stressed enough how irrelevant standing up a landing is. Walking away (preferably with a smile, whether landed on feet or ass) from the landing is what matters. I may be able to stand up a landing on a canopy loading 40lbs heavier than what I am jumping right now. But I wouldn't jump it at the moment, as I do not trust I am nowhere near being able to land it safely in extreme situations. Consistently.
To be redundant, this is my extremely unexperienced opinion. And my own only.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Remster 24]

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just make sure you watch your low turns and you should be fine.

What if he finds himself heading downwind at 50 feet on his first jump on that 170? What if someone cuts him off on final on his first jump on that 170? You have no idea what kind of training he's received, no idea how well he flies a pattern, no idea if he even knows what a flat turn is much less if he practices them...

Please. If your profile is correct you have no business telling anyone that they "should be fine" under any canopy.

No kidding... Its one thing to say if this is a good price, its another giving safety recommendation if you are yourself a very very new jumper to someone you dont know squat about.

Remster

[robconway 0]

i agree with both of you's. i wusnt making safety recommendations. that is what his rigger recommened for him.

[mjosparky 3]

You would be better off listening to Skybytch and Arlo as to what is a good price for gear and what would be a safe canopy for you.

Jumpers with less then a few hundred jumps can offer an opinion but when you think about it there is not much experience to back it up.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Zook 0]

Thank u all for your answers.

U gave me new things 2 think about.

Jump safe and blue skies (with small white clouds) 2 u all.

Zook.

[falxori 0]

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You would be better off listening to Skybytch and Arlo as to what is a good price for gear and what would be a safe canopy for you.

and their advice is better than his rigger's and chief instructor who's seen most if not all of his landings?

i have no problem with being "too safe" but a S2 170, loaded ~1:1 is not that extreme for his level, especially when he'll be helped using a radio for as long as he feels that he needs one.
O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[tso-d_chris 0]

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and their advice is better than his rigger's and chief instructor who's seen most if not all of his landings?

Maybe, maybe not. But their advice is better thaan an inexperienced jumper. I didn't see any posts by his instructor or rigger.

Be careful not to confuse a rigger's advice with an instructor's advice. While many jumpers are qualified as both, the skill set is different. A rigger trains to understand gear very well. An instructor trains to understand the needs of students very well. If you want to know about your gear, ask your rigger. If you want to know what gear is most appropriate for your current skill level, an instructor is a better source of information, as it is their area of expertise.

I believe I would get a second opinion before reducing my main canopy size by 23%. That is a huge downsize, even if the resulting wingloading is not excessively high. I have met very, very few instructors that would advocate such a downsize.