Scam artists?

[ericmillionaire 0]

Hey i'm trying to sell my safire 2 right now and the last four people have insisted that a wire transfer into my account is the only way they can pay. They seem like scam artists. Anyone had a problem like this before?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Hey i'm trying to sell my safire 2 right now and the last four people have insisted that a wire transfer into my account is the only way they can pay. They seem like scam artists. Anyone had a problem like this before?

Let me guess, they are out of the country? Don't give them your bank account number. It is very likely a scam. I would insist on payment through Pay Pal, or I would only ship it to their DZ only after I had at least 50% of the money in verified, certified funds. Be careful of even accepting cashier checks and/or money orders. There have been cases recently of these types of funds being forged. Call the DZ they jump at and talk to the DZO to make sure they are known. Personally, I wouldn't sell to anyone outside the U.S. YMMV.

[ericmillionaire 0]

Don't worry, I'm not gonna give up my info. It's pretty interesting how hard these guys work to pull it off. One of them gave me an account number that belonged to jump shack as a way to win my trust.

[Scootersv 0]

Sounds like dodgy e-mails.
The most likely that it is the same person just using different e-mails to confuse you.
Don't provide them with your bank/account details.
Say that the cashier cheque (not personal one) from their bank would do.
Wait till it arrives, then clear it, Only after that ship the canopy. In the meantime ask for their full name/address/and the phone number. Then give them a short call, just for your own piece of mind, so you'll know who you are dealing with.
That worked for me and normally will piss them off.

Serg.

Play safe, pull high

[BadDog 0]

Some of them may be legitimate, but it can be pretty hard to tell. I deal with a guy in Australia who buys used gear from me on a pretty regular basis, and he uses wire transfers. In fact I recently sold him a Safire. I also use American Goodies to complete some of my overseas sales of used (and new) gear.

[wmw999 2,121]

There are a couple of threads in Bonfire right now about the use of bank account numbers for wire transfers -- apparently that's how things are done in some other countries (either that or they're VERY diligent in trying to make their story sound good).

So it might be quite real. Which doesn't necessarily help you, since a US bank number is a lot more useful to nefarious people than ones from other countries.

Here is one of them. Note that the poster has been around awhile, so, again, he's probably legit. Here is another one.

So you might try giving them the benefit of the doubt, but still work with Paypal or something like that, or a trusted third party. They can't just send you a check, and apparently in some countries you can't even use Paypal.

Good luck in selling your canopy

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[BadDog 0]

Serg,
I think we posted at the same time. I don't remember seeing your post when I did mine.

For those of you who don't know, Serg pays via wire transfer and is legit!!

[kelpdiver 2]

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Say that the cashier cheque (not personal one) from their bank would do.
Wait till it arrives, then clear it, Only after that ship the canopy.

It apparently isn't enough for the check to clear - in some of these scams the people thought that a cashier's check meant cash, but weeks later the bank said it was a phony. I don't know what you can do to be sure - I'd be asking my bank 'is this really the final step?'

[ciechan 0]

Wire transfer is one of the quickest and the most safe and cheap way to send a money abroad. And it is the most popular way to send the money in the world, especially in Europe. I have already bought few rigs in US and every time I had problems to persuade sellers to give me their account #. For example sending $3500 via wire transfer I pay about $30 but sending the same amount via Westerm Union - $350!!! If you add shipping cost - about $100 - you can see that transaction costs make a deal unprofitable. So do not be suprised when someone don't want to send money this way.
And for me (I am banking and finacial expert) it sounds like scam paranoia - giving your account # you don't give an acces to your account, you only let the money enter to your bank.
And of course you don't have to ship a rig before wire transfer clarification

[Scootersv 0]

The clearance procedure does not take that long, normally 3-4 days business days. And if still in a doubt talk to your bank.

[Scootersv 0]

I'm familiar as well how wire transfers work and i have to agree with ciechan that giving your bank/account information you only let the funds enter your account. This information does not provide an automatic access to your account at all ! At the same time i would not call it paranoia.

Hey folks !

Here what you have to watch out for:

Greetings
i am mr jerrys ahmed I view your advert placement of the internet and i am having a genuine interested in buying your Said $3495.00 + shipping. All parts of this rig are in outstanding condition which for sale ,so firstly i will want you to tell me the last price and the conditions they are presently with the pics.Dont worry about shipping , i will arrange the shipping myself.My mode of payment is through a international Cashier's Check drawn in united states of American Funds.Expecting your mail back.
REGARDS.
jerrys ahmed

And another one: (actually by the same person, sounds like this guy does not care what size of main/reserve he needs:

Greetings
i am mr jerrys ahmed I view your advert placement of the internet and i am having a genuine interested in buying your Said Fully loaded Javelin Odyssey container system, '02 made which for sale ,so firstly i will want you to tell me the last price and the conditions they are presently with the pics.Dont worry about shipping , i will arrange the shipping myself.My mode of payment is through a international Cashier's Check drawn in united states of American Funds.Expecting your mail back.
REGARDS.
jerrys ahmed

Regards.
Serg.

Play safe !

[ciechan 0]

Quote

At the same time i would not call it paranoia.

I totally agre but because of my poor english knowledge I couldn't find other adequate word ;)

[tigra 0]

I work with wire transfers daily. Giving out an ABA number for your bank and an account number does not grant a person access to your bank account. Wire transfers are an effective way to send and receive money. The ongoing scam that I am familiar with is when someone offers to send a cashiers check (which turns out to be counterfeit) in excess of the funds needed to purchase the item and wants a wire transfer back for the difference.

[dgm458 0]

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The clearance procedure does not take that long, normally 3-4 days business days. And if still in a doubt talk to your bank.

My buddy got involved w/ one of these scams. He received a cashiers check drawn on a Miami bank for $5000. The buyer was from Nigeria, but he wanted the goods shipped to the UK. The goods were for sale for $1200 and he OVERPAID. That's the catch-they ask for their money back via wire transfer or Western Union.

His check took over two weeks to come back as phony.

I talked my friend into waiting to send the $$. Good thing for him.

--------------------------------------------------
Failure to prepare is preparing to fail

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

Quote

There are a couple of threads in Bonfire right now about the use of bank account numbers for wire transfers -- apparently that's how things are done in some other countries (either that or they're VERY diligent in trying to make their story sound good).

So it might be quite real. Which doesn't necessarily help you, since a US bank number is a lot more useful to nefarious people than ones from other countries.

Here is one of them. Note that the poster has been around awhile, so, again, he's probably legit.

@ ericmillionaire

Hi,

that would be me!!! and the funny thing is that I posted that one because my girlfriend Mirjam bumped into trouble when trying to come to an understanding with you on purchasing your canopy.
You will recognise her e-mail-adress([email protected]) as you mailed her -and got a reply from her- today.

What we didn't know before we started contacting Americans to find a canopy for Mirjam was that things over there and over here work pretty different.
Initially we were a bit overwhelmed by some of the replies we got to our e-mails, but after posting the message in the bonfire and reading the replies we are slowly realising why we get these kinds of replies.

The upside of this whole story is that I got an e-mail from Brad, an American that regularly comes to Holland and that knows a few people that I know, in which he offers to help us out, by acting as kind-of a middle man.
I sent him an e-mail asking him to confirm this story by posting a reply here.

I have been around for a while, and I have (aside from my regular job in insurances) just recently started a little company in Holland to bill my video-jumps and sell tandems and courses. I have no desire to build up a bad reputation.

You can find my contact-info, chamber of commerce number and Tax-number here.

After we have found a way of payment that is acceptable to you and us we can come up with a number of references in the Dutch skydiving-world, and I would like to have some references from you.

I am asking this because we will pay someone at the other side of the world and we know and understand that you will not send us that canopy untill you have gotten money, and at that time it's up to us to trust that you will send us the canopy.

Let's just get to some kind of situation where we can make a deal that everyone is happy with fast!

Blue skies,

Tom

P.S.: posting this here instead of PM so anyone having an opinion about this can ventilate it, maybe we can still learn stuff to look out for.
Secondly taking this discussion into the open space of the forum gives a kind of social-control by an entire community for both of us.

I'm sure we'll work this out one way or another!

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio

[blackdog 0]

Quote

Quote

There are a couple of threads in Bonfire right now about the use of bank account numbers for wire transfers -- apparently that's how things are done in some other countries (either that or they're VERY diligent in trying to make their story sound good).

So it might be quite real. Which doesn't necessarily help you, since a US bank number is a lot more useful to nefarious people than ones from other countries.

Here is one of them. Note that the poster has been around awhile, so, again, he's probably legit.

@ ericmillionaire

Hi,

that would be me!!! and the funny thing is that I posted that one because my girlfriend Mirjam bumped into trouble when trying to come to an understanding with you on purchasing your canopy.
You will recognise her e-mail-adress([email protected]) as you mailed her -and got a reply from her- today.

What we didn't know before we started contacting Americans to find a canopy for Mirjam was that things over there and over here work pretty different.
Initially we were a bit overwhelmed by some of the replies we got to our e-mails, but after posting the message in the bonfire and reading the replies we are slowly realising why we get these kinds of replies.

The upside of this whole story is that I got an e-mail from Brad, an American that regularly comes to Holland and that knows a few people that I know, in which he offers to help us out, by acting as kind-of a middle man.
I sent him an e-mail asking him to confirm this story by posting a reply here.

I have been around for a while, and I have (aside from my regular job in insurances) just recently started a little company in Holland to bill my video-jumps and sell tandems and courses. I have no desire to build up a bad reputation.

You can find my contact-info, chamber of commerce number and Tax-number here.

After we have found a way of payment that is acceptable to you and us we can come up with a number of references in the Dutch skydiving-world, and I would like to have some references from you.

I am asking this because we will pay someone at the other side of the world and we know and understand that you will not send us that canopy untill you have gotten money, and at that time it's up to us to trust that you will send us the canopy.

Let's just get to some kind of situation where we can make a deal that everyone is happy with fast!

Blue skies,

Tom

As Tom and Mirjam are saying, I am Brad Gayo and when I first read this thread about scam artists, it sent me from Wendy's( wmw999 ) links to Tom's 'question thread' about US/EU banking differences. Since Tom is in ND i immediately pm'd him suprisingly at the same time my Dutch friends who knew him were telling him to contact me for help in payment or shipping. I knew he would be aquainted with my friends and he did check my references. Quite funny actually, I figured Tom would think I was a scammer from my immediate offer; as we all know, the skydiving community is small, and in Holland it even SMALLER. It is not even a 6 Degrees of Separation if we all look a bit.

Quote

ciechan and Scootersv

Quote

I'm familiar as well how wire transfers work and i have to agree with ciechan that giving your bank/account information you only let the funds enter your account. This information does not provide an automatic access to your account at all ! At the same time i would not call it paranoia.

I couldn't have said it better myself. From my personal transactions for many years now almost monthly, there is no way for someone to access into an account unless they figure out how to hack the bank first. When I first moved to EU, it freaked me out as well all the direct transfers, but it is the SAFEST and MOST SECURE type of transaction available to access funds in a timely manner.
As for the personal connection, I was almost about to inquire about buying the same canopybut decided to wait. The people Tom and I know, a few are cops actually, and I can now vouch for Tom and Mirjam 100%. Therefore, I can offer funding for all parties involved if they like.
Now, this won't work for all transactions at DZ.com, but as Tom wrote

Quote

posting this here instead of PM so anyone having an opinion about this can ventilate it, maybe we can still learn stuff to look out for.
Secondly taking this discussion into the open space of the forum gives a kind of social-control by an entire community for both of us.

So in this instance we can all provide our own checks and balances to help of our friends help each other cool..huh?


another example of the safety of the transfer process, check the info these skydivers put up
http://www.pressurized.at/order_info.html

[ericmillionaire 0]

I kind of feel like an asshole now. But I wasn't talking about you specifically. I recieved numerous e- mails like yours asking for my account number without asking anything about the canopy or shipping etc...
Sorry if I offended anyone.

G.P.E.

[sabr190 0]

Don't feel like an asshole, better safe than sorry. And , these guys don't seem upset at all

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa

[JohnGraham 0]

Quote

Sounds like dodgy e-mails.
The most likely that it is the same person just using different e-mails to confuse you.
Don't provide them with your bank/account details.
Say that the cashier cheque (not personal one) from their bank would do.
Wait till it arrives, then clear it, Only after that ship the canopy. In the meantime ask for their full name/address/and the phone number. Then give them a short call, just for your own piece of mind, so you'll know who you are dealing with.
That worked for me and normally will piss them off.

Serg.

Play safe, pull high

I feel I must protest - I've heard lots of people say this, and I've also heard a lot of people say the exact opposite, that the buyer should under no circumstances part with any money untill they have the goods and have had them checked out by a rigger. If buyers and sellers both stuck to these respective pieces of advice, the only second hand gear sales would be those that were performed face to face, with just a few between those who know each other!
IMHO, a "trusted third party method" is without doubt the best method to use when dealing with these transactions - either a respected rigger or DZO/CCI, or even a professional escrow service. I've used escrow.com before and would use them before, but there are plenty more out there.

Good luck selling your gear!

[Scootersv 0]

Quote

Don't feel like an asshole, better safe than sorry. And , these guys don't seem upset at all

That's the way !

Let's acknowledge this: there is a common misconception about quoting your bank/account details selling/buying gear. I personally would not call anybody an asshole who is trying clarify the subject in this forum - better safe than sorry. I believe this issue has been clarified in this thread.

Re: funds first then goods vs goods first then funds.
I think before committing to anything, set up a gentleman's agreement that the funds will be refunded if the customer is not satisfied with the goods within the certain time frame and the issue will be resolved in most of the cases. Use your local rigger or any other trusted third party if necessary.

Serg.

Who is afraid of Karabas Barabas ?

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

I am the one feeling like an asshole now, since I have decided to buy a different canopy from a deal that when dealing with eric seemed to be yet another dead end street. Got an e-mail today telling me that if i still wanted it it's mine.And I wanted it more than Eric's, not a question of money, but of type.
My girlfriend told me she wanted a Sabre 2, but if that didnn't come trough before the start of the seazon she wanted to go for a Safire 2 or a Sabre I.
She has jumped all 3 and that was her "top 3 canopies I want to have"

Anyway for this discussion the way we were going to set up the deal is interesting.
I would send the money to my friend in California, and Eric would COD ship the canopy to my friend.
Great deal.

No-one had anything to worry about this way.

A tiny advice to all Americans here: the second-hand market in Europe is really crap right now, and the dollar is very attractive to buy stuff when you're used to Euro's right now! Add those up and you see why I spent every evening this week e-mailing and doing research instead of laying on my couch!
The one thing you learned here is that we don't know anything about your banking system so you should have an alternative ready if you don't feel like sharing your banking info.
I've looked into Western Union, and this seems like a perfect system unless the high costs make the deal unprofitable.

I really feel sorry for Eric right now, someone buy his canopy fast please!!!
(His rigger already confirmed that it's in excellent condition!!!) I'll vouch for that!

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio

[ericmillionaire 0]

Hey Tom You should but the canopy as a gift for your girlfriend. That way she will have two canopies to jump. If you did I'd even throw in a PD 190 for free!!!

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

I actually already bought a second canopy, size 150, that way I have a backup for when my Stiletto 150 dies on me, and my girlfriend has a canopy to downsize to (she weighs close to nothing so with 100 to 200 jumps on the 170 she can easily go to a size that gives her a bit of forward speed...)

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio

[ericmillionaire 0]

Well if you know anoyne looking for a canopy senf them my way. I can't seem to get rid of either of these canopies. I just got my Sabre 2 150 a few days ago so I need the cash.

Blue Skies

Gun Powder Eric

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

Funny,
half a year later I try to sell some stuff (posted a classified) and this is what happens:
(on the top is my last reply to the gentleman that wanted to purchase my gear...)

Datum: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:37:10 +0100
Van: Tom De Weerdt
Aan: dennis cole
Cc: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Re: Ready to Buy......
First read this:
http://www.dropzone.com/content/Detailed/593.html
And than guess my answer!

Be more creative!
I would call you all kinds of names if I thought you were smart enough to
understand.

Get a real job.
--
Tom De Weerdt

Sky Studio
www.skystudio.nl
e: [email protected]


Citeren dennis cole :

?
?
?
?
?
?
? Hello,
? Thanks for getting back to me, i am based in the West Africa ,there
? won't be any problems about the shipment,after payment ,the pick up will be
? made at your place. i have made arrangements with the prepaid shipping
? company.
? As regards payment,this is what i am going to do. I have a client in
? the US who is owing me 4,000euro i would instruct him to make out a
? Internatonal Money Order to you in that amount and as soon as it clears your
? bank. you can now deduct your money from it and send me my balance, i will be
? using part of the money to pay for the shipping and other expenses .you will
? then send my balance by via western union money transfer.Although the value
? of the check is more than the asking price but i think i should be able to
? trust you with my balance.
? So if my terms are acceptable to you, i would like you to give me
? your Full Name, Address and Phone Number so that i can instruct my client to
? make out the Check to you.
? Pls get back to me as soon as you get this mail so that we can
? round things up in a timely fashion and you can reach me on my phone as wells
? that its +2348023680103
? Thanks in this regard.
? Dennis Cole..............
?
?
?
?
?
? Tom De Weerdt wrote:Hi Dennis,
?
? I think it all depends on where you live!
? If you're in Europe, the best thing to do would be a normal international
? transaction, in that case I just give you my IBAN (international bank
? account
? number) so you can wire the money to me.
? Then we need to figure out a way to get the stuff to you in a way that
? neither
? of us can be worried about anything
? I don't feel much for lowering the price a lot, but if I know where you live
? maybe we can make it 800 including shipping.
?
? Before shipping the container + reserve will go to my rigger, they are going
to build my cypres into my new
? container that's already there. If you like you could check with them about
? the
? state of the equipment (so you know that you're not actually buying a 1989
? Vector I with 5000 jumps on it ;) )
?
? Let me know
? Picture attached!
? --
? Tom De Weerdt
?
?Sky Studio
?www.skystudio.nl
?e: [email protected]
?
?
? Citeren dennis cole :
?
? ?
? ? Hello,
? ? This is to let you know that i am interested in buying
? ? your{Javelin J1 + PDR 143}please furnish me with detailed information in
? ? regards to the payment and let me know ur final asking price.
? ? Hope to here from you soonest.
? ? Best Regards.
? ? Dennis Cole

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio