737 descent rate?!

[3mpire 0]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/30/report-co-pilot-moved-seat-sent-jetliner-plumetting/[/url]

check this out--co-pilot accidently puts a 737 into a 26 degree dive which lasts for 7k feet. Knowing the degree of the dive and the altitude lost, assuming an average cruising speed, how long did the dive last?

I'm looking around for calculators to figure that out but I'm not a math whiz...

[mutumbo 0]

23 aeconds.

Actually idk. What is the "avg crusing speed"pf said 737

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[3mpire 0]

Wikipedia says 485 mph

[airtwardo 6]

However fast John Mitchel TELLS em to descend!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skycamefalling 0]

3 seconds

Speedracer~I predict that Michael Jackson will rise from the dead.
And that a giant radioactive duck will emerge from the ocean and eat Baltimore.

[lawrocket 3]

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http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/30/report-co-pilot-moved-seat-sent-jetliner-plumetting/[/url]

check this out--co-pilot accidently puts a 737 into a 26 degree dive which lasts for 7k feet. Knowing the degree of the dive and the altitude lost, assuming an average cruising speed, how long did the dive last?

I'm looking around for calculators to figure that out but I'm not a math whiz...

485 mph is cruising speed. 485/60= 8.083 miles per minute. 8.083/60=.1347 miles per second. .1347*5280=711.216 feet per second.

90/26=3.462. Thus, the plane will travel 3.462 feet laterally for every foot it descends. 3.462*7000=24,234 feet. Therefore, the plane traveled 24,234 feet forward for the 7,000 feet it dropped.

Pythagorean theorem is a^2+b^2=c^2. (24,234)^2 + (7,000)^2 = (587286756) + (49000000) = root of 636,286,756. Therefore, the glide distance on hypotenuse (assuming steady rate decline) was 25,224.725 feet.

Since the plane is traveling at 711.216 feet per second for 25,224.725 feet

25,224.725/711.216=35.467 seconds.


Answer: Assuming steady descent at 26 degrees at 485 miles per hour, the 737 was descending for 35.467 seconds.

Add a few seconds for beginning of dive and return to level flight and you've got probably around 40 seconds from start of dive to end of dive.


Note: I'm no mathematician. This is my SWAG (Scientific Wild-Ass Guess) based upon my limited mathematical knowledge and it being over 20 years since I had algebra or trigonometry.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 3]

The one thing you're missing is that regardless of how quickly they may have retarded the throttles, the aircraft probably changed airspeed during the dive.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jumpwally 0]

accidently ? what was their excuse ?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[AggieDave 6]

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accidently ? what was their excuse ?

That the co-pilot was adjusting his seat. If it was before the locked down flight door, I would have thought the co-pilot was adjusting a stew...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[diablopilot 2]

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The aviation agency report concluded that the 25-year-old co-pilot had not been trained in the specific scenario the jet encountered and “probably had no clue to tackle this kind of emergency.”

Really? Basic stick and rudder? Fuck me, I ought to head to India for that flying job I'm looking for....

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[millertimeunc 0]

I fly a similar airframe, and depending on altitude and configuration, it's possible to descend that far in about 45 seconds to a minute.

The best things in life are dangerous.

[lawrocket 3]

Right - that's why I wrote "Assuming steady descent at 26 degrees at 485 miles per hour..."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[aphid 0]

From the article: "... were saved when the pilot, who’d gone on a bathroom break, used an emergency code to get into the locked cockpit..."

So, we have been told that there is "no way in to the secured cockpit" post-911. Well, apparently there is a way to get in. And now the bad-guys know that too...

Great.

[billvon 2,435]

>So, we have been told that there is "no way in to the secured cockpit" post-911.

There is a way for the crew to get in in an emergency (which is a good thing.) There is also a way for the cockpit crew to keep them out if they want to (which is also a good thing.)

[aphid 0]

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

[billvon 2,435]

>Really? Basic stick and rudder?

The danger in this case is that if the seat moves too far forward, it prevents the pilot from pulling the yoke back. (And it then gets very hard to move the seat back again due to the deck angle.)

[airtwardo 6]

Remember we're dealing with media reports here and accuracy isn't always their greatest attribute.

The 'code' they are referring to is most likely a 'code word' that's related through the comm., all the 1st officer has to do is reach behind and unlock the door.

I've never seen a number pad on any of those doors...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 6]

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>Really? Basic stick and rudder?

The danger in this case is that if the seat moves too far forward, it prevents the pilot from pulling the yoke back. (And it then gets very hard to move the seat back again due to the deck angle.)

Wonder why...if they were in level flight the 1st was fucking with the seat anyway?

Maybe...since the Capt. was out peeing, the 1st was doing something 'else' that put the aircraft in that configuration.

sounds like the ole 'seat excuse'...blame the plane not the driver!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 2,435]

>all the 1st officer has to do is reach behind and unlock the door.

Given that he couldn't even get his seat pushed back again, that might be asking a bit much of him.

[airtwardo 6]

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>all the 1st officer has to do is reach behind and unlock the door.

Given that he couldn't even get his seat pushed back again, that might be asking a bit much of him.

Again...IS that really what was going on?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[3mpire 0]

Interesting article with much more technical detail:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/11/30/350342/lone-co-pilot-panicked-after-putting-indian-737-into.html

Full text below for those who don't want to click through:

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Investigators have detailed an extraordinary event in which an Air India Express Boeing 737-800 was put into a steep dive moments after the captain was locked out of the cockpit.

While the twin-jet was cruising at flight level 370, en route to Pune from Dubai, the captain left the cockpit for the washroom. Almost as soon as he was gone, the aircraft started to pitch nose-down, after forward pressure on the co-pilot's control column.

India's DGAC attributes this to the co-pilot's adjusting his seat forward and inadvertently knocking the control column.

Flight-data recorder information shows that, after momentary relaxation, the forward pressure on the column increased and the jet pitched to 5° nose-down, before the pitch command briefly transitioned to nose-up.

But another "sharp" nose-down command followed, says the inquiry report, and the forward control column force gradually increased.

The 737 passed through 13° nose-down and an 'overspeed' warning showed the jet's airspeed had risen to Mach 0.82. As the airspeed increased the autothrottle reduced thrust in an attempt to keep the aircraft under control.

Outside the cockpit the captain had felt the change in pitch and attempted to re-enter the flight deck. There was no response from the co-pilot to a request from cabin crew to open the secure cockpit door, and the captain had to resort to an emergency code to gain access. He was away for about 40s in total.

Upon entering the cockpit he saw the aircraft was pitched about 26° nose-down. He responded by pulling on his control column - although the flight-data information shows that, while he was pulling with 130lb (580N) nose-up force, the co-pilot's column was experiencing an opposite pressure of 200lb nose-down.

Shortly afterwards the two columns "rejoined" and the aircraft - which reached a maximum speed of Mach 0.888 - began to pitch nose-up, having lost 6,800ft in altitude during the event. Control regained, the flight continued without further incident.

An admission of being "panic stricken" is given as the co-pilot's explanation for his failure to open the cockpit door. The inquiry report states that he attempted to contact the captain four or five times using an attendant call button.

As the aircraft departed from its planned altitude, as a result of the pressure on the control column, the increase in speed and the warning sounds from the aircraft caused a "panic situation".

The co-pilot "couldn't control the aircraft [or] open the cockpit door and answer the cabin call", the report says: "During the pitch-down attitude he tried to leave the control column to open the cockpit door but the aircraft pitch increased further and altitude [was being lost] rapidly."

It adds that the 25-year-old co-pilot - who had 968h on type - claimed to have forgotten the procedure to return to the assigned flight level.

While none of the 113 passengers was injured during the 26 May event, there had been a commotion in the cabin as a result of the upset, with items spilling into the aisle.

[airtwardo 6]

Hummm...knocks my theory out.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[lawrocket 3]

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He was away for about 40s in total

From my earlier post:

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you've got probably around 40 seconds

Do I win?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[pchapman 262]

What did the first officer do? Undo his seatbelt to try to open the cockpit door and fall onto the control column while in the dive? Looks like he was able to neither fly the airplane, nor summon help. Useless.

[3mpire 0]

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Do I win?

Totally! Your math was pretty accurate given that the speed and dive angle was variable. I thought a rough estimate could be made with the initial data points, but i wasn't able to put anything together