Dealing with off-landings in a city / urban environment

[Morrison79 0]

I don't think he had time to make it to that field.

[billvon 2,476]

>See that soccer field! Yeah land there!

Wouldn't have made it. He was aimed at it for most of the canopy ride and it kept getting higher in his field of view.

>And holy mother of god that thing came down fast!

Yep, they do that. In this case he may have been trying to get it under the wire you see in the video, and may have landed either in full flight or with some front riser rather than risk hitting it.

[shah269 0]

Ok help out the n00b....why was he reaching for his slider instead of his rears to flatten out his flight?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[oldrookie 0]

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Something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne52pIpYmXA

What was this guy DOING!
I'm glad he walked away and all but.....WHAT?
See that soccer field! Yeah land there!
And holy mother of god that thing came down fast!
Any info on this guy?
I hope he's ok but OUCH!

In which part of the video does it look as if he is EVER gonna make it ANYWHERE close to the sportsfield?

EDIT: didn't see the other replies allready covering his inability to score a touchdown.

[shah269 0]

I'm on a 260 now. I will be on a 210 by the end of the summer. For me that looks like a maybe! Way better than a hut turn into the road....ouch!
But glad he's not dead!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Morrison79 0]

Ok help out the n00b....why was he reaching for his slider instead of his rears to flatten out his flight? ***
Because the flapping noise was bugging him

[Hellis 0]

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Something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne52pIpYmXA

What was this guy DOING!
I'm glad he walked away and all but.....WHAT?
See that soccer field! Yeah land there!
And holy mother of god that thing came down fast!
Any info on this guy?
I hope he's ok but OUCH!

If i could make it to the soccer field, i dont know if that would be my first choise of landing anyway.
They usually have lights at all four corners and cables going between them.
You can land on a soccer field but i would want some information about the field before i make it my primary landingarea.

[Ron 7]

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Ok help out the n00b....why was he reaching for his slider instead of his rears to flatten out his flight?

He might have been stowing his slider to cut down on drag

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[matthewcline 0]

Typically Sports Arena's don't have Cables Between the lights, all the power runs up the stanchion the lights are on.

Plus if the field is not in use the Net Cables and Camera Cables etc are normally stored "Down" making it a nice out.

But this dude was not going to make it.
But if he looked down prior to Exit he may have landed at the DZ.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[billvon 2,476]

>Ok help out the n00b....why was he reaching for his slider instead of his
>rears to flatten out his flight?

No, I meant he may have been using his _fronts_ to get under the wire, and not had time to flare.

I don't know why he kept screwing around with his slider.

[davelepka 4]

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I don't know why he kept screwing around with his slider

Becasue he's a dumbass. He 'always' pulls his slider down on other jumps, and the cool kids at the DZ told him how much better his canopy flies with the slider collapsed, so that's what he was doing.

The reality is that his priorities are skewed. The first evidence is not checking the spot when jumping anywhere near such a congested area. If there was that type of city within a couple miles of a potential jumprun, you can bet that checking the spot would be very high on my list.

Beyond that, an immediate application of brakes would have slowed his descent rate and allowed him more time to asses the situation. Instead he unstows his brakes, and let's go of his toggles to fuck with the slider at what appears to be less than 1000ft.

The lesson here is for people to remember their priorities. This guy was lucky that the street wasn't busy and that he didn't snap his leg landing there. He could have easily went down and then got hit by a truck, but despite being backed into that corner, he wanted to collapse his slider for the last 20 seconds of canopy ride.

There comes a time on some jumps where survival becomes the challenge, and that's not going to be pretty or look cool. Do whatever you need to do to survive, and forget about everything else.

[hookitt 0]

Preventative is great, however, sometimes a person simply finds out they screwed up and must deal with landing in an unfamiliar place.

One of THE BEST THINGS you can do for yourself is, Learn how to land any canopy you jump using a standard straight in approach. Most importantly, learn how to sink it in or use a highly braked accuracy approach. Some times you don't get to land in full flight.

If you sink it in over trees into a small back yard, you must know how to PLF. Practice PLFs like you mean it. Some PLFs are simple rolling landings and some aren't. Brace yourself and take the hit. Don't let your knees hit you in the face. A nice PLF can be considered a good landing.

I've personally practiced braked accuracy approaches many times on a 97 Stiletto 1.8 wingload, a 27 Cell Xaos 78 with a 2.3 to 2.4 wingload, and my current 84 Velocity. Ive done this on higher wind days and warm no wind days. This practice has absolutely come in handy.

Landing off the dropzone in most cases should be just another landing ... but, you have to pay attention to what your real options are. If it's not just another landing, meaning there are trees, cars, back yards, fences etc... practiced accuracy skills can really make the difference.

The only definite in skydiving is, you're going to land so if you find yourself where you shouldn't be, at least have some practice landing exactly where you want to.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[pinkfairy 0]

Never done it, but the ONE jump I did in Empuriabrava, I was told that if I were to land in the town, just hit one of the canals. Don't drown and buy beer.



Roads and motor ways often have power lines, telephone lines or other nasty stuff besides them.

We have takeoff of our jump plane going over the small town of Tønsberg in Norway. I've looked out numerous times watching the great selection of places where I don't want to land if I were to have to bail at 1500', and seen the harbour as the best option. Too bad I jump with weights.



Just my thoughts.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[billvon 2,476]

>I've looked out numerous times watching the great selection of places
>where I don't want to land if I were to have to bail at 1500', and seen the
>harbour as the best option. Too bad I jump with weights.

I hope they're outside your jumpsuit with buckles in front!

[matthewcline 0]

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>I've looked out numerous times watching the great selection of places
>where I don't want to land if I were to have to bail at 1500', and seen the
>harbour as the best option. Too bad I jump with weights.

I hope they're outside your jumpsuit with buckles in front!

Good point! I still see so many weight vests out there and they are being worn on jumpers near a body of water.

A belt would be easier to get rid of in the unfortunate case of a water landing and doesn't help put the center of gravity in the right spot?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[airtwardo 6]

And to reiterate...spotting skills also relate to freefall.

Look down, an early wave off and pulling high may increase your options.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Hellis 0]

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Typically Sports Arena's don't have Cables Between the lights, all the power runs up the stanchion the lights are on.

Plus if the field is not in use the Net Cables and Camera Cables etc are normally stored "Down" making it a nice out.

But this dude was not going to make it.
But if he looked down prior to Exit he may have landed at the DZ.

Matt

True, but i was not thinking of powerlines.
I was thinking of guywires, im not sure there are guywires but there could be.
Im not a soccerfan myself, but the few times i have been on a soccerfield i have noticed they have a net behind the goals so that if they miss the ball dont end up in the face of a fan.
On larger soccerarenas they usually dont need them because the goals are further away from the spectators, but by the look of it on the video, it does not look like a big soccerarena.
If there is such a net that eliminates/makes it more difficult to approach from the shortsides of the field.
If the arena is closed it will be a hassle to get out. Trying to get someone to open for you or geting out on your own.

As i said, IF i would make it there i would not land on the field. But the parking lot would probably be a good choise for me.
Landing inside the arena/soccerfield is in my (limited) opinion a bigger risk than outside even if that means landing on asphalt instead of grass.

[dninness 4]

My DZ is about 4-5 miles from the "city," but there certainly are built-up residential areas nearby to the DZ.

Couple years ago, I made a series of bad decisions on a skydive, coupled with poor decisions on the part of others (suffice to say, when the S&TA looks at you and says "The wind is X, are you sure you want to go?" you say "Uh, yeah, good point.." ) and wound up landing off in a trailer park local to the DZ.

This trailer park is pretty tight (narrow streets, trailers not exactly lock-step next to one another, but close enough), loaded with wires, trees, trailers, sheds, mailboxes, swingsets, cars, etc. I've driven by it on my way to the DZ, but never really looked "close" at it.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XO8ZRcEMkFI/SF7NuEvS9WI/AAAAAAAABQs/MA7syEQakqg/s800/landing.jpg
(thats an annotated pic of the trailer park).

The week before, I'd been jumping a demo Spectre. That week, I was back on my tried and true, very familiar to me, Monarch 195. Had I been under the Spectre, I probably would have eaten it. As it was, at 1000 ft, descending into this maze of wires and trees, all I could think was "In the next 60 seconds I'm either going to be dead or seriously injured.." Someone very smart once told me "Fly it all the way to the chocks" and "Don't ever give up," and with that in mind, I gritted my teeth, though "I have no choice here but victory," and maneuvered to land in a little intersection by sinking my canopy over some wires.

Sadly, I did not account for the loss of cross wind due to the lee of the 70+ ft high trees, and my canopy picked up a tremendous amount of speed when the wind went away down low. I flared about 1/2 second late and ate the asphalt pretty hard. Skinned myself up a little, dinged my left foot and my left ass cheek, but otherwise, I was intact. Got a little blood on one of J-Sho's loaner wingsuits. :(

Since then, I've practiced deep brake approaches much, much more, using the beer line as the "line of powerlines" and trying to sink my canopy over an imaginary 40 ft barrier to land in the peas. Its an interesting exercise, to be sure. And a skill we should all at least be familiar with.

NIN
D-19617, AFF-I '19

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Since then, I've practiced deep brake approaches much, much more, using the beer line as the "line of powerlines" and trying to sink my canopy over an imaginary 40 ft barrier to land in the peas. Its an interesting exercise, to be sure. And a skill we should all at least be familiar with.

You are more prone to collapse in deep breaks.
Its your pick speed or collapse.

[Arvoitus 1]

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Since then, I've practiced deep brake approaches much, much more, using the beer line as the "line of powerlines" and trying to sink my canopy over an imaginary 40 ft barrier to land in the peas. Its an interesting exercise, to be sure. And a skill we should all at least be familiar with.

You are more prone to collapse in deep breaks.
Its your pick speed or collapse.

If you don't brake you're guaranteed to have more speed.

If you do brake you're not guaranteed to have your canopy collapse but you do increase the likelihood of it happening.

Its not either or.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[airtwardo 6]

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Since then, I've practiced deep brake approaches much, much more, using the beer line as the "line of powerlines" and trying to sink my canopy over an imaginary 40 ft barrier to land in the peas. Its an interesting exercise, to be sure. And a skill we should all at least be familiar with.

You are more prone to collapse in deep breaks.
Its your pick speed or collapse.

If you don't brake you're guaranteed to have more speed.

If you do brake you're not guaranteed to have your canopy collapse but you do increase the likelihood of it happening.

Its not either or.

It's simple 'classic' accuracy skills.

If you collapse it you've stalled.

If you can't hang it on the edge of a stall in slow flight, or recover from a stall by pumping the brakes...might be a skill ya wanna look into learning.

If you're flying a little snot rag that's gonna plant ya either way, try to protect your head...at least you will be able to watch TV in the hospital.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Since then, I've practiced deep brake approaches much, much more, using the beer line as the "line of powerlines" and trying to sink my canopy over an imaginary 40 ft barrier to land in the peas. Its an interesting exercise, to be sure. And a skill we should all at least be familiar with.

You are more prone to collapse in deep breaks.
Its your pick speed or collapse.

If you don't brake you're guaranteed to have more speed.

If you do brake you're not guaranteed to have your canopy collapse but you do increase the likelihood of it happening.

Its not either or.

It's simple 'classic' accuracy skills.

If you collapse it you've stalled.

If you can't hang it on the edge of a stall in slow flight, or recover from a stall by pumping the brakes...might be a skill ya wanna look into learning.

If you're flying a little snot rag that's gonna plant ya either way, try to protect your head...at least you will be able to watch TV in the hospital.

Classic accuracy with a hot pocket rocket? Accuracy canopies designed for sinking in stall, they have huge and open cells. If you have a partial or total collapse on a semi- or closed nose canopy in a turbulent, urban environment and low you are not going to make it back by pumping before the impact....

[Zymurdoo 0]

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Let's see...I know an 'old guy' that jumps a 210 main and a 220 reserve.

+1

You been digging through my gear?

*** Edited because even I was confused with this post***

Blue Skies, Soft Docks and Happy Landings!
CWR #23
(It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!)

[airtwardo 6]

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Since then, I've practiced deep brake approaches much, much more, using the beer line as the "line of powerlines" and trying to sink my canopy over an imaginary 40 ft barrier to land in the peas. Its an interesting exercise, to be sure. And a skill we should all at least be familiar with.

You are more prone to collapse in deep breaks.
Its your pick speed or collapse.

If you don't brake you're guaranteed to have more speed.

If you do brake you're not guaranteed to have your canopy collapse but you do increase the likelihood of it happening.

Its not either or.

It's simple 'classic' accuracy skills.

If you collapse it you've stalled.

If you can't hang it on the edge of a stall in slow flight, or recover from a stall by pumping the brakes...might be a skill ya wanna look into learning.

If you're flying a little snot rag that's gonna plant ya either way, try to protect your head...at least you will be able to watch TV in the hospital.

Classic accuracy with a hot pocket rocket? Accuracy canopies designed for sinking in stall, they have huge and open cells. If you have a partial or total collapse on a semi- or closed nose canopy in a turbulent, urban environment and low you are not going to make it back by pumping before the impact....

Hence the "IF YOU'RE FLYING A LITTLE SNOT RAG" comment...

That being said, I've seen a small cross braced canopy landed in deep brakes...better than average canopy pilot, but I've seen it done.

Yes, if you stall it low you're screwed, and if ya hit bus in full flight...you're screwed.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[BrianM 1]

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If you can't hang it on the edge of a stall in slow flight

I don't think it's so much an issue of being able to hang it on the edge of a stall, as it is having that almost-stalled canopy being more prone to collapse when it enters turbulent air caused by the multiple nearby obstacles present in any urban landing.

Of course, that risk may be worth taking, if the tradeoff is flying into powerlines!

I landed on a city street about 7 years ago after the winds did a 180 shortly after exit on a demo. No wires, but there were street lights on both sides of the street. They were staggered, so I slalomed them. Flat turns is another useful skill for urban landings.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg