NTSB: Train doing 82mph in a 30mph curve

[ryoder 1,572]

What...The...F***???

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ntsb-train-going-too-fast-211737922.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Probably texting......

[shoeless_wonder 0]

1.They take your license for a stunt like that...
2. Was it racing Paul Walker? If so... who won??

What is the point of life, if you don't live it?
To escape fear, you have to go through it, not around.

[quade 4]

Yeah, this has been happening for years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZsMQK2Z-So&list=PLE7490D5DC7AA82D2

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Halfpastniner 0]

I was on that train not 12 hours prior! I thought they had that "derail" shit figured out by now. Crazy....

BASE 1384

[quade 4]

Halfpastniner

I thought they had that "derail" shit figured out by now.

Go fast enough around a corner not designed for it and the train is going to depart the tracks. That's just physics.

WHY it was going so fast is up for debate, but 82 mph on a corner with a speed limit of 30? That's just not going to work out well.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[swisschris62 0]

I thought trains had something that prevented them from going way faster then the track was meant for.
With electric trains it could be done just by reducing power in the area I would think.
I read somewhere this isn't the first train to roll it in that curve although the other one was freight not people.
If there is a way to slow the train automatically then it would probably be worth using that sort of system...at least on commuter trains with hundreds of people in them.

[quade 4]

swisschris62

I thought trains had something that prevented them from going way faster then the track was meant for.
With electric trains it could be done just by reducing power in the area I would think.
I read somewhere this isn't the first train to roll it in that curve although the other one was freight not people.
If there is a way to slow the train automatically then it would probably be worth using that sort of system...at least on commuter trains with hundreds of people in them.

Honestly, in today's world there certainly ought to be. There's no reason why every train couldn't be speed limited via GPS. You'd still want a human at the controls, but since speeds for each section are known, then why not limit it that way?

But alas . . . that's simply not currently the case in the vast majority of operations.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DougH 270]

Most of the technology on the north eastern rail systems in stone age.

The metro north line is hobbled together with a bunch of crazy band aids.

There was also a train collision earlier this year, and a extended power outage on the tracks as well.

New rail cars are sexy and get voters attention, track maintenance, electrical systems, and logistic upgrades aren't nearly as sexy or pursued.

The north east corridor should be getting mucho money for improvements, it is one of the areas in the country where rail makes a lot of sense.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[theonlyski 3]

quade

Honestly, in today's world there certainly ought to be. There's no reason why every train couldn't be speed limited via GPS. You'd still want a human at the controls, but since speeds for each section are known, then why not limit it that way?

But alas . . . that's simply not currently the case in the vast majority of operations.

Well, GPS is great but it does experience problems. Especially in tunnels (unless you have some GPS ground stations). The biggest problem I could see with it, is eventually the train operators would end up relying on a system that they believe will do all of the work.

Kind of like Air France 447.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[shropshire 0]

Air France 447. was flying through a tunnel?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[theonlyski 3]

shropshire

Air France 447. was flying through a tunnel?

No, they became over reliant on an airplane that 'would not let you stall it', not knowing the failure mode and managed to stall it for tens of thousands of feet.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[shropshire 0]

I know but that doesn't amuse ME quite so much

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Tink1717 2]

This is what continues to amaze me about our tiny little community: Someone always knows something about everything. No matter what the subject, there will be at least one among us who has experience or knowledge of it. Amazing.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[quade 4]

theonlyski

***
Honestly, in today's world there certainly ought to be. There's no reason why every train couldn't be speed limited via GPS. You'd still want a human at the controls, but since speeds for each section are known, then why not limit it that way?

But alas . . . that's simply not currently the case in the vast majority of operations.

Well, GPS is great but it does experience problems. Especially in tunnels (unless you have some GPS ground stations). The biggest problem I could see with it, is eventually the train operators would end up relying on a system that they believe will do all of the work.

Kind of like Air France 447.

And not every AAD fires and saves everyone 100% of the time. That said, they're still a good idea.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[swisschris62 0]

It would be a good back up system in the event something happened to the engineer or something mechanically failed on the train.
It's crazy to think that the way it's set up now the train would just keep hurtling down the track, gaining speed going through stations with nothing to stop it but air and whatever else is in its path.
There are safety features in elevators to keep them from free falling to the ground also. Comparing a plane to a train as far as operating them is vastly different when it comes to the operator and his job.

[quade 4]

Well, there's already a dead man switch, but this would be something slightly different.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[seedy 0]

Technology to control train speed is coming, but it takes time. The government has mandated that railroads install a system called PTC. However, it is not as simple as installing a box on a locomotive. There is also trackside equipment that must be installed and central office equipment. Major railroads have close to 10,000 locomotives, and the majority of those will need to be retrofitted with expensive equipment, all to be paid for by the railroads themselves. GE has a new product called Trip Optimizer which is an electronic interface to the locomotive which has a database of the track profile, speed restrictions, train length and tonnage which acts as cruise control on steroids for the train and will stop the train if it violates the speed limits. However, TO does not know what the signals along the track are displaying, so the engineer must still take be in control of the train. PTC will interface with the signal system.

I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.

[ryoder 1,572]

Note the corrective devices Spain installed after the disaster last summer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santiago_de_Compostela_derailment#Corrective_Actions

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[swisschris62 0]

Apparently these systems are already being used. In Europe it is widely used.
I read that even the Long Island rail road has this system on some of their lines.
Seems a little crazy not to have a back up system to stop a train in case something were to happen to the engineer.
So basically on the metro north, if say the engineer had a heart attack, the only way that train could be stopped is if it ran out of track or came in contact with something big and stationary.
I'll bet they start retrofitting their locomotives now....

[Andy9o8 1]

Quote

if say the engineer had a heart attack,

Nope, could never possibly anticipate something like that happening...

[ryoder 1,572]

Andy9o8

Quote

if say the engineer had a heart attack,

Nope, could never possibly anticipate something like that happening...

Damn! Why didn't someone think of that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyhBroQsNA&t=2m40s

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[seedy 0]

swisschris62

Apparently these systems are already being used. In Europe it is widely used.
I read that even the Long Island rail road has this system on some of their lines.
Seems a little crazy not to have a back up system to stop a train in case something were to happen to the engineer.
So basically on the metro north, if say the engineer had a heart attack, the only way that train could be stopped is if it ran out of track or came in contact with something big and stationary.
I'll bet they start retrofitting their locomotives now....

Locomotives have an Alerter system. The engineer (driver) must make throttle/braking changes or hit a reset button during a set time frame or the locomotive will automatically apply a Penalty brake. Once the Penalty braking sequence has started, the train comes to a full stop and then a timer resets before the train can be started again.

I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.