Reserve Pins

[ditch9276 0]

After a discussion in the German Forum called "Stammtisch" here on dropzone.com about reserve pins, i'd like to give all the people who dont understand german any information about!

In this discussion we talked about reserve pins that could remove from the ripcord! So i've checked the different kinds of pressing the pin onto the ripcord, and all the results are not that what i want to see. That means all round- and flat- pressed pins are not able to reach a high pull force and they wont reach a good mechanical connection! So in this the pins are not unsafe, but at all the pins could remove from the ripcord! Mostly after a while of testing !

So what could we do! After a few simulations with a programm that is build for the inustrie to make some pull force simulations, we found now a way to get a better connection between the ripcord and the pin, what offers us a higher ability of withstand stress!

Now we start the real stress tests for the new kind of ripcord pin connection, and after i got the results, i'll put the results onto my homepage!!!

Blue Skies and stay safe

The only rings that are worth wearing, are those of my 3-ring-system!!!

[mjosparky 3]

All ripcord/pin/handle assemblies used on US TSO'd gear are tested to 300 lb. for 3 sec. That is more than could ever be applied by an individual pulling the handle.

What would you suggest to test to?

From AS-8015B

4.3.1 Primary Actuation Device/Ripcord Test: The ripcord, including all joints, shall not fail under a straight tension test load of 300 lbf (1337.7 N) applied for not less than 3 s.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[ditch9276 0]

I would test not only 3 sec! What happens in a view of a long time in use! Under the points of mechanical stress over a long time on the connection between ripcord and pin! Not only while pulling. There's also a stress on the connection, while wearing and transporting a rig. And after this stress on a connection, the connection can't hold enough, and it can failure. That means that a ripcord has no holding connection to a pin.

And i would find a kind of connection that hold longer and more than the actually pin, ripcord connection. Not in a view of a short first stress test, but in a view of a long time use. Without changing any part of the assemblie!

Blue Skies and stay safe

The only rings that are worth wearing, are those of my 3-ring-system!!!

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

I would test not only 3 sec! What happens in a view of a long time in use! Under the points of mechanical stress over a long time on the connection between ripcord and pin! Not only while pulling. There's also a stress on the connection, while wearing and transporting a rig. And after this stress on a connection, the connection can't hold enough, and it can failure. That means that a ripcord has no holding connection to a pin.

And i would find a kind of connection that hold longer and more than the actually pin, ripcord connection. Not in a view of a short first stress test, but in a view of a long time use. Without changing any part of the assemblie!

Blue Skies and stay safe

If I understand you right, you are concerned about being under "mechanical stress" over a long period of time. There is no tension on the cable/pin connection until the handled is pulled. Only when the rib cord is pulled is any stress applied to the assembly. Again the force required to extract the pin can not exceed 22 lb.

Source: AS-8015B

4.3.2.4 Primary Actuation Device/Ripcord, Actuation Force Tests: A load at the ripcord handle, or
equivalent, of not less than 5 lbf (22.2 N), applied in the direction giving the lowest pull force, nor more
than 22 lbf (97.9 N), applied in the direction giving the highest pull force under normal design
operations, shall result in a positive and quick deployment initiation on all tests. A minimum of 10 pull
tests is required. For chest type parachute assemblies, the maximum pull force shall be 15 lbf
(66.7 N).

I have tested ripcords, 4 pin type, that were over 40 years old to the 300 lb. 3 sec. standard without a problem.

Of course the ripcord and all the component parts must be manufactured and assembled properly.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[teason 0]

For those who may not know, the pins are swagged to the cable. That means that the pin is subject to rapid hammer blow which cause the metal to cold flow into the strands of the aircraft cable.

Now I seem to remember an old bulletin where a batch wasn't swagged corredtly but I haven't been able to find it.

Now, what better ways are there of attaching a pin?
Are there any reports of a properly swagged pins failing yet?

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[ditch9276 0]

Quote

If I understand you right, you are concerned about being under "mechanical stress" over a long period of time. There is no tension on the cable/pin connection until the handled is pulled. Only when the rib cord is pulled is any stress applied to the assembly. Again the force required to extract the pin can not exceed 22 lb.

This i see differnt, there's allways stress on the connection, while wearing and/or transporting a rig. And i wont say that the test are bad, no not for billion bucks, but i want to find just something that can hold more!

Just want to find a kind of connection that can hold more, nothing else!!!


Blue Skies and stay safe

The only rings that are worth wearing, are those of my 3-ring-system!!!

[ditch9276 0]

So after this mails, from god like riggers i've made my desicion,

everything what is done in the US is still perfect

and the iraquies still have nuclear bombs

ok i understand everything from the us is still perfect, i understand

god that i prefer the sentence of a suiss guy who never tries, could never wins

if this guy was an us citizen the sentence would be the one and only, but he wasent, and that was god

and if everything in the us is still perfect, and you've there a great law system, why do you hold the real owners of the land like slaves? And offers them as tourist attraction???

The only rings that are worth wearing, are those of my 3-ring-system!!!

[Kris 0]

Dude....you just aren't getting it. You need to sit down with a *good* rigger and get a refresher as to how a proper reserve cable is created, tested, installed, and used.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[freeflyfree 0]

There is something in www.paratec.de about a "New Reserve Pin Technology" ...


Felipe

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[teason 0]

Thanks for the link! Neat stuff.

For those who hate searching sites;
http://www.paratec.de/index_start.html

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[bob.dino 0]

Methinks you meant http://p4961.typo3server.info/fileadmin/user/pdfs/New_Paratec_Ripcord_Pin_.pdf.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Now, what better ways are there of attaching a pin?

You could use a straight main type pin. You'd have to put a loop in the end of the cable and swedge it back on it's self.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[teason 0]

Well, yeah. Like a vector RSL system. The cable is still swaged though. My question was more along the lines of a better way to swage or alternative to swaging.
The origional post seemed to point toward conventional swaging as the problem.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

For those who may not know, the pins are swaged to the cable. That means that the pin is subject to rapid hammer blow which cause the metal to cold flow into the strands of the aircraft cable.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You must be using radically different tools (Poynter's Manual Volume 1, section 6.15.1.5) than I used at Butler, Rigging Innovations, Para-Phernalia, etc.
While Poynter refers to fancy power-driven "hammer" tools, I have never seen them.
Maybe they are still used by old-school factories that still build ripcords for military contracts.

At R.I. etc. we used a tool originally designed for swaging aircraft control cables. It uses a pair of rollers to slowly squeeze the pin barrel around the cable. This tool looks like a giant set of pliers, sort of like a Nicopress tool.
A few rigs even use Nicopress swages on ripcords, they certainly are popular on release cables.

Just got off the telephone with John Sherman at the Racer factory. Jump Shack uses a huge electric press, with a huge fly wheel, etc. - similar to those used to stamp out automobile body panels - to swage their ripcord pins.

• Quote

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

The origional post seemed to point toward conventional swaging as the problem.

And sometimes people invent problems that just are not there. Swaged ripcords have been around for 30+ years, and they still work fine. The argument about 3 seconds of testing isn't enough doesn't hold water.

Quote

Well, yeah. Like a vector RSL system.

Not quite. It would be the cable being swaged back on it's self.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[teason 0]

Is that the rotary swager John got a couple of years ago? The last time I saw a swager it was at jumpshack some time ago and I thought it delivered hammer blows.(if memory serves I seem to rememeber the repetitive clunking) John hadn't gotten his big rotary swager back then, I rememeber him searching for one. The big rotary swager is used in ripcord pin production. I'm not sure if it's used for standard swaging aplications.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[JerryBaumchen 1,064]

I do not agree that 'all' ripcord assemblies built in the US are tested. The test req'ment being discussed is a design/first article test for application for a TSO-authorization.
IMO (as a holder of 6 TSO's), there is no FAA req'ment to continue with any testing once the TSO-authorization is granted.
I think too many users feel that all of their equipment is being tested regularly.
Now, having said that, I also think that it would be foolish to not to continue to do random testing of items in/after production.
Thoughts??????

[NightJumper 0]

Quote

I do not agree that 'all' ripcord assemblies built in the US are tested.

Well, I can't speak for "ALL" but I can tell you that as one of the largest manufactures of pins, handles and ripcord assemblies, that we do 100% sub and final assembly inspections and testing. In addition, most of our customers do their own testing as well.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

I do not agree that 'all' ripcord assemblies built in the US are tested. The test req'ment being discussed is a design/first article test for application for a TSO-authorization.
IMO (as a holder of 6 TSO's), there is no FAA req'ment to continue with any testing once the TSO-authorization is granted.
I think too many users feel that all of their equipment is being tested regularly.
Now, having said that, I also think that it would be foolish to not to continue to do random testing of items in/after production.
Thoughts??????

How do you comply with this section of the TSO and FAA Part 21? That is if your TSO's are under C23d. If not, apples and oranges.

(vi) The quality control inspection and functional test specification to be used to ensure each production article complies with this TSO, as required by part 21, section 21.605(a)(3) and part 21, section 21.143(a)(3).

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[PhreeZone 15]

Does that mean RWS is out drop testing every container they make or PD droping every reserve they make to test it for the TSO?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[JerryBaumchen 1,064]

This is EXACTLY the argument that I make. When I first decided to go after a TSO-authorization I obtained a copy of FAR Part 37 (the governing document in effect in the 70's); I later acquired a copy of FAR Part 21 when that became the governing document.
In my reading of Part 37 I could not find any FAA REQUIREMENT for any additional testing after successfully completing the testing as called for by the TSO (and its referenced document/test standard).
I inquired to the FAA folks at the SACO and they confirmed what I understood.
In reading the two responses, I do NOT find any conflict with my original posting.
I have said for many years that I will bet $5 to a stale doughnut that no additional testing is REQUIRED by the FAA.
Of course, most mfrs have QC programs with internal inspections/testing; but this is NOT a FAA req'ment. Only having an FAA-approved QC program is required and those are unique to each TSO-authorization holder.
Please note that I also stated that you would be foolish not to continue testing. My argument was and is that no additional testing is an FAA REQUIREMENT.
I simply have never found any FAA document that REQUIRES additional testing.
And, as you state regarding ones brand new reserve canopy, do people actually believe that the very item that they have in their container has been drop-tested. I hope that they do not.
This is the very gist of my argument and I stand by it as it would apply to ripcords. If any company tests 100% of their ripcords, good for them. However, not all do.

[mx757 4]

Quote

For those who may not know, the pins are swagged to the cable. That means that the pin is subject to rapid hammer blow which cause the metal to cold flow into the strands of the aircraft cable.

Nancy at jumpshack took me on tour of their shop and jumpshack makes and test's their own pins. It was intresting to watch them being made. it was loud when they were being swagged, but i'm deaf.. didn't bother me a bit.

[mjosparky 3]

I would have to agree with you, there is no wording that specifically requires it. But then it is open to interpretation and we both know that the FAA can come up with some very interesting interpretations of what appears to be a simple rule/regulation.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JerryBaumchen 1,064]

Thank you. And I will agree with you that different FAA offices will interpret almost anything differently. In my opinion, therein lies the dilemna.
I have felt for many years that if one makes his/her living or substantial part of his/her living in something governed by the federal gov't (in our case, the FAA) then you should make it a practice to donate to the campaigns of your local US Congressman and US Senator(s) from your state. I always do and I have had to use their help on more than one occasion in getting the 'interpretations' that I needed from the FAA. I've always called it 'greasing the skids.'

[billbooth 10]

Every reputable manufacturer I know 100% tests ripcords (3 seconds @ 300 lbs., pin-to-handle test). As long as stainless steel cable was used, I know of no pin which has ever detached from a cable, even many years later, after passing this test. Recently, most of us have added a series of pin side load tests on every ripcord we sell. Most aircraft control cables also employ swaged fittings, and have for nearly 100 years. While nothing is perfect, a properly swaged fitting on the end of a cable is a damned reliable system.