Should a Rigger charge more for a Racer Repack?

[KevinSpencer 0]

I own a Racer and when I went down south from Canada I had a reserve ride. To my surprise it cost me more for a Racer Repack compared to some thing else. My Rigger told me that if someone charges more for a Racer then He or She doesn't know what they are doing because Racer are the easiest to pack. My question for you Riggers out there Should I be charged more for a Repack?

River City Crew Rocks

[hookitt 0]

No.

However, I'll charge additionally for a new quick loop if it's needed.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[teason 0]

sound like you have a "Racer Rigger" there!

I know I've paid a rigger extra to butcher my Racer and then it cost me extra to replace the quick loops he broke and the the reserve pins he bent! (saying nothing about the 50lbs+ of pull on the reserve.

Reading the manual would have prevented that problem.

p.s. don't be a shit disturber!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[hookitt 0]

Out of curiosity, How much extra did you have to pay?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[RMURRAY 1]

you need to find a rigger who can do a good job. some just cannot do it - for whatever reason. I don't think the manual is enough, I think they need to be properly trained. These riggers will not charge extra....

rm

[billvon 2,434]

>My Rigger told me that if someone charges more for a Racer then He or
> She doesn't know what they are doing because Racer are the easiest to
>pack.

That's like saying RW is easier than freeflying. It all depends on what you're used to.

>My question for you Riggers out there Should I be charged more for a Repack?

?? 'Should?' It's entirely up to the rigger. Keep in mind that you have the ultimate power over his decisions - he can't charge you more if you go elsewhere. There is a lot more to choosing a rigger than how much they charge you though.

[teason 0]

There is lots of resource out there if you call Jumpshack. They can give tips galore.

Also, shouldn't a "back" rating mean that you're qualified to pack any and all back reserves?

If a rigger knows that he has trouble with a rig he should probably not pack it (as some do) or be pro-active and learn how, not charge extra and then butcher it. Any "Racer Rigger" will be happy to show what they know.

I would like it known that there are competant riggers who do charge more and do a good job and that they charge more because it is an accepted going rate.

I also know for a fact that there are some who charge extra for their own ignorance (lernt that first hand!)
Any other Racer horror stories?
Did that rigger charge extra?

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[NightJumper 0]

No, they are no more difficult or easier than any other rig. It is a matter of training and currency. We offer free Racer rigger training at every event we go to and also at the factory (90 in the last year). We even provide a complete set of manuals on CD, tools and a t-shirt. It is just like anything else, if you know how to do it, it is easy. As for taking longer, that again is skill level. There was a rigger at a DZ that said that he could pack a XXX rig faster than I could ever pack a racer.......it took him nine min. longer which gave me time to pick the restaurant that he was buying dinner at!

Stay safe,
Mike

[Tink1717 2]

I charge ten more for a racer only due to the extra time it takes to do a racer. I don't get many of them and it takes more time with something I am not current on. Also, the factory is a great source of support. They will factory train any rigger that shows up. And give a free T-shirt to boot. Their lead rigger is on here as NightJumper. PM him if you need.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[masterrig 1]

I guess, it's like the man said, it's up to the individual rigger, as to what he charges for an I&R of a Racer or any other rig. Personally, I feel that packing a Racer (reserve) is a 'challenge' yet, I charge no more than for any other harness-container. I've had the good fortune to have attended a Racer Seminar as well as the PIA-Symposiums. I agree also with the idea that the Owner's Manual is not enough. From what I've seen come into my shop, that could hold true for many of the harness-containers on the market. To me, Racers aren't all that difficult and I don't mind them at all.

Chuck

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Also, shouldn't a "back" rating mean that you're qualified to pack any and all back reserves?

It means you've got a back rating and are allowed by law to pack any back type rigs. Doesn't mean you have to be proficient in them all. I know riggers who will work on nothing but Vectors, because that's what they are used to, and that's all they want to do. I don't have aproblem with that.

Should a rigger charge more for a Racer? Yes if they want to and think it's more trouble for them. The same rigger could charge more for any type of rig they want, their perogative.

Don't like it? Find another rigger. But don't harassthem about it, especialy untill you've got your own ticket, and have packed a few different types of rigs.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ChileRelleno 0]

I had to vote "NO", but as already said "The rigger can charge whatever they wish and you as the consumer can take your business elsewhere if you choose.", also as stated there are many reasons as to whether or not to use a particular rigger.

I had one rigger tell me straight out "I'm not familiar with your Reflex, if you have the manual I can do it for you, but no promises on a cosmeticly pretty packjob." He studied the manual,packed the reserve and it looked fine....... He'd get my rig anytime.....

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[teason 0]

Quote

It means you've got a back rating and are allowed by law to pack any back type rigs. Doesn't mean you have to be proficient in them all.

I actually agree with that statement completely, you don't have to be proficient in all back rigs.Riggers who believe that they know all and can just guess the rest really boil my cookies.Being a rigger must mean that you follow manufacturures directions and ask questions if you don't know. GUESS WORK IS NOT OK IN RIGGING! WE DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF LEARNING FROM OUR MISTAKES! I will never criticize anyone for refusing to pack a rig they're unfamiliar with. If I'm unfamiliar with a rig and there is no manual, I will not pack it. I'm not even allowed to if I wanted to. If I do pack it (with the manual of course) and I'm unsure of something, I'll call the manufacturer.
Having a back rating should imply that a jumper can trust you with his repack to either do it right or not do it at all.
I'm sorry if my point was weak on the earlier post.

As for the principal of charging more for a rig that takes longer; I won't do it. I a rig takes longer because I'm taking my time with unfamiliar gear, I'm not going to charge him for my slowness.
They shouldn't pay for my lack of familiarity. It's just how I feel.
As for racers, it's the same price no matter if it has a square reserve, cypres, or microchip brain implant. I don't want a jumper regretting a gear choice because of MY short comings.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[teason 0]

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I had one rigger tell me straight out "I'm not familiar with your Reflex, if you have the manual I can do it for you, but no promises on a cosmeticly pretty packjob." He studied the manual,packed the reserve and it looked fine....... He'd get my rig anytime....

Now that's what I'm talking about!
That's a rigger!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Unstable 8]

I jump a Racer 2K3 and I am luckey enough to have a rigger who not only is very current and Knowledgeable on Racers, But Jumps one himself. I asked him basically the same thing that you are asking here, and he assured me that with experience, Racers are Not harder, but actually EASIER to pack than most sport rigs. He does not charge Extra to pack Racers, and he believes that you can judge a rigger based on their ability to pack a racer...

You've got to be careful here on these forums with this subject - Too many times this exact topic has caused a couple of Locked forums due to the, Um, Emotion of this subject.

=========Shaun ==========

[hookitt 0]

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and he believes that you can judge a rigger based on their ability to pack a racer...

HAhahaha... you slay me..

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[teason 0]

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you can judge a rigger based on their ability to pack a racer...

The same can be said of any rig however Racers can be a real acid test for bad rigging

DANGER LET"S STAY FROSTY
The statement above does not mean that if you don't know or aren't familiar with a racer then you must suck.

It means that a rigger who does poor work can really F*** up a racer. I have seen a few sketchy rigs but Racers seem the be the rig where you see the most ... er ... creativity in rigging.
Hell I once saw a quick loop tacked to the hat with 5cord, it was pulling the hat itself through the grommet!
A good rigger, even if he hates and takes hours closing a Racer will still do a good job.
A bad rigger will butcher the hell out of it. These same riggers are probably butchering other rigs to a lesser degree, Racers just stand out more cause they're different.

Remember good riggers try everything to educate themselves
Bad riggers guess and hope.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Unstable 8]

Quote

HAhahaha... you slay me..

Laugh at that, But don't laught at me. That is not my belief nor my quote, I was just stating what was told to me.

=========Shaun ==========

[hookitt 0]

No worries mate. It was the statement, not you.

I've conversed with a rigger that seems to be quite competant, at least in text. He has a list of rigs he won't work on.

There's one rig in particular that I find easy as heck... he just doesn't like em so he won't pack them.

As far as Racers, I'm not much of a fan but don't find them difficult to work on. I could charge more for that reason alone but choose not too. In fact a very competant local rigger charges more for that reason alone. He's good at working on them too.

I voted no only because I don't charge more but if some one wants to charge more, that's up to them.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[riggerrob 558]

The challenge to packing Pop-Tops is finding the right tools.
Sadly, we wasted 20 years fumbling with awkward, expensive, cumbersome, Cypres-incompatible, break-in-the-middle-of-your-pack-job, steel T-bodkins.
The last time an apprentice complained about a steel T-bodkin, I tied the accursed tool in a knot an flung it into the trash can!

Do I sound biased? Hee! Hee!

The process of packing Po-Tops comfused me until a German rigger suggested making temporary loops out of Cypres cord, then the logic struck me.

Recently, Jump Shack mailed me a stack of temporary loops to hand out at a riggers' course.

By the same token, I was not very good at packing Reflexes until Iron Mike showed me a few techniques he learned while working for Fliteline.

On a similar note, I struggled to pack Flexons until I started rigging at Rigging Innovations. Later, I wrote all of of my Flexon packing tricks into the Talon 2 manual.

My point is: the first time you pack an unfamiliar rig, you should get coached by someone who has packed a few dozen of them.

[FrogNog 1]

Riggers should charge whatever they want.

Their quality of work should be good no matter what they charged or what they packed.

Riggers should reserve the right to refuse to pack anything.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[councilman24 36]

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***As for the principal of charging more for a rig that takes longer; I won't do it. I a rig takes longer because I'm taking my time with unfamiliar gear, I'm not going to charge him for my slowness.
They shouldn't pay for my lack of familiarity. It's just how I feel.

There ARE rigs that take longer due to their design. A case in point is the Preserve V pilot canopy. Softies with these canopies DO take longer, no matter how familiar you are with them. I feel fully justified in charging more for them. ParaPhernalia charges even a higher precentage more for Preserve V's than I do.

I don't do Racer's because the last one I did was in 1991. On the rare occasion I'm asked I tell them straight up that they should take it to another rigger who is current. Why don't I get current? Because I'm asked to do one about once every four years. If someone insisted they wanted me to do it, I probably would charge more because it will take me longer. Are they paying for my self training? Yep, but I warned them. The same way I tell them to send most repairs to the factory. The factory is current, they have any patterns necessary, they'll do a better job, either cheaper or free, and I won't get mad at at the rig trying to get it done.

There are a lot of things I don't charge for. Changing AAD batteries during an inspection, taking out or putting in an AAD for service, new loops (figured into the cost), new rubber bands (remember pilot rigs) unless I have to change all of them because of lack of maintainence, and a bunch of other stuff.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[masterrig 1]

Funny, you should mention the 'fancy' 'T'-Bodkins. I attended a Racer Seminar a few years ago and part of it was packing a racer. I watched another rigger break one of those bodkins in the middle of packing and he chunked it out the hangar door. (The guy's got a helluva arm on him!) Like you, I use the Cypres cord method. I got the idea from one of the Cypres manuals. I found also, using a compression strap on the pilot-chute really helps. Same with a Reflex. I'm not coordinated enough to keep the pilot chute compressed and flip the container over. I agree, the more you do... the better you get.

Chuck

[teason 0]

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Are they paying for my self training? Yep, but I warned them.

That's fair. And your being straight and honest with them.

I guess my beef is those who charge more, do a bad or even dangerous job and them blame to rig itself. They aren't being straight with their customers.

"Racer riggers" often seen bad Racer pack jobs from riggers who charge more and blame the gear.
That's the thing that burns our biscuits!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[riggerrob 558]

Like you, I use the Cypres cord method. I got the idea from one of the Cypres manuals. I found also, using a compression strap on the pilot-chute really helps. Same with a Reflex. I'm not coordinated enough to keep the pilot chute compressed and flip the container over.

Chuck