Low Stuff

[dmcoco84 4]

So I'm starting to do more low jumps now and I had two questions.

First: Pin flap. Seen many jumpers on video and pics with it open vs. closed. How much force does it take to pop the flap and does it do that much to quicken your deployment? The only problem I have with doing this is most of my jumps are solo so putting on my rig with the flap open, I’m worried about moving my pins. Thoughts?

Second: for HHFF's. Right now I am doing the mushroom technique. Extend arm, s fold bridle into hand; S fold pc mesh into hand and Zp stays floppy outside of your hand.

Are there other methods that are better for low stuff? What technique for folding is used with the underhand pitch technique? I believe I saw someone say that you fold it like I described above but instead of the zp flapping in wind you fold it over like if it were going in the BOC and your hand goes over the zp instead. Then you underhand it.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Coco

[Faber 0]

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How much force does it take to pop the flap and does it do that much to quicken your deployment?

test it.. use theese instruments to meassure the weight of fishs..

Rember to adjust your loops also..
do you use spectra loops or regular loops?

How low do you want to jump HHFF? i open my flaps arround 230 and below,i have seen others jump them closed all the time.

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The only problem I have with doing this is most of my jumps are solo so putting on my rig with the flap open, I’m worried about moving my pins. Thoughts?

bring your packing tool(that cord) just incase..

Im jumping solos open flap most of the time,whith primed pins and spectra loops,i only pop opened my harness once that were my top pin,which i then closed and jumped..

How is the exit point? easy or dificult to accses?

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I am doing the mushroom technique.
Are there other methods that are better for low stuff?

i personaly dont think so,however the way you pitch can leed on to how fast the pc inflate.

I wouldnt use the hole pc inside the hand for ultra low stuff,by the above teqnice the pc is already placed the way it should inflate,i even use this methode when i freefall low objects(sub 200)whith the through up pitch.

It all depends on how low low is?

When i started BASEjumping i promised myself never to do a jump below 300ftat that point 300 were LOW to me.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Mac 1]

As Faber says, it depends on what you are calling low, one mans SL height is another mans freefall height
Most of my jumps are in the 200 to 300 ft range. I always keep my pin flap shut (Gargoyle), and just have the pins half way with regular closing loops. I always stow my PC the same. I S fold the bridle and then the mesh, then I leave some mesh exposed with the ZP so it starts catching air as soon as I depart. I have seen others from heights I do this from do the folding of the ZP to hold the "bundle" in the hand, but for me I just prefer the exposed mesh and ZP. I have taken this PC method down to around 2+ seconds and have had no problems with the drag the exposure and part inflation gives from this - others have though. My pitch method from with is not a hard throw as the "bundle" jumpers seem to do, but quite a lazy little "Flick" of the wrist with short "one inch" punch of the arm, this has been a very consistant method for me.

I will generally use a 46 up to around 280ft, then a 42 from there upward (dependant on the delay of course), but also have taken a 42 from 220. I find the initial inflation of the 42 more consistant than the 46 and even recently have had a little hesi from a 220ft FF even with the partial exposed mesh with the 46 - my head pumped a little during that FF. But since I have upsized my canopy to a 280 I feel happier taking a 46 than a 42 toward the 200ft region.

I think if you are looking at sub200 then thats a different ball game completely and I dont have any experience in that area at all.

Like Faber I never wanted to Freefall below 300ft, but I guess knowledge dispells fear..... I also swore to myself whislt lying in hospital I would not go below 300ft again..... funny how time changes your perceptions

[Faber 0]

you gonna bring a rig as you and Ivan pays me a visit?

Ivan said you gonna complete even as his a "crible" right now

could use some dates if you guys are comming over(even if you dont want to jump)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

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...Pin flap....How much force does it take to pop the flap and does it do that much to quicken your deployment?

It's very difficult to even take a guess without specifying the type of rig.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[hookitt 0]

Apex DP (it's in his profile)

The lower portion of the closing flap is soft on the DP and doesn't appear to be a factor at any speed.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[SullyFlyer 0]

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one mans SL height is another mans freefall height

Last night I saw one guy PCA, one went hand-held, and one did a gainer. Can you tell me how high the object was, or what the landing area was like?

I look at the jump, and I chose my gear, and my configuration accordingly. You really need to ask very specific questions when it comes to low stuff. And be careful who is answering (is it the guy that did the gainer)

Be Safe

~
Fear is the thief of dreams...

[dmcoco84 4]

At the moment 230 is the lowest. I did a jump a few weeks ago with a 46 inch HHFF go and throw with the way I described PC setup and all was fine. I did the same jump, same tower two nights ago and experience some hesitation. Was much lower than I was the first time. Haven’t done anything lower than that yet.

Landing area is nice and big, only jumpable on one side into a nice big field. Free stander with a small but workable platform on the top. Easy exit. S/L'able but not really necessary with the height.

Apex DP flap closed both times. With primed pins, Middle. Not sure what material for closing loops. Apex’s standard closing loops. Pins tension was good. Not tight but not too loose. Right in the middle.

How tall was the tower the guy did a gainer from?

Coco

[SullyFlyer 0]

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How tall was the tower the guy did a gainer from?

280, but he's a nut. I static lined a 486ft bridge yesterday (Slider up)

When you talk about low free falls, Spencer's name comes to mind. 180ft bridge handheld. 102ft tard.

[dmcoco84 4]

Well....280's not that bad. I'd gainer that down the road after a handfull more jumps around that height. Would practice the rotation speed in the gym and higher up too though prior to doing so.

180 HHFF. Thats pretty low but Faber does it all the time. My balls aren't that big yet.

Coco

[rapaz 0]

My experience is mostly in the 300 400 range, a dont feel any diference betwen open and close flaps on my warlock, Merlin and DP.
I find one time doing a asist PC on a friend, a very hard stuck bridle with a PRISM, also I notice that may be the packjob was to fat.
We measure (with a friend) pulling forces with a fish weight thing on the bridle, and we figure out a bunch of diferent forces betwen the 1st and 2nd pin on the diferent tests, like, chest strap loose and tight, legs loose and tight, abdominal force and curve shoulders, front loop position, etc.

And another thing, if you drop your PC (mushr) very slow and gently, close to you, I think and feel that the canopy open more faster than if you drop your PC very hard, also I can check that on video.

Nico

[RayLosli 11]

I luv to watch people do ultra low shit for the first times. I is real cool to watch there body language if FF when they fall way past there comfort-zone of life and death brain sensory imput..You can really see it in some. There body gets a tense and knotted look just before the Canopy bangs open. Fun to watch but It's pretty serious and scarry stuff when you start exiting from 250- ft. and on Down into the 150-60 Ft. range.
.

[Mac 1]

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280's not that bad. I'd gainer that down the road after a handfull more jumps around that height

for that statement I am out of this discussion.....


not that you were listening to responses anyway

[tfelber 0]

To me opening the flap, I also jump a DP, is just to hopefully eliminate one more point that could delay the opening. That said I jump a 240' often HH, 46, closed flap, pins all the way in. No problems yet.

I've also been static line of a 172' cliff that scared the shit out of me both times and the guy I was jumping with was going HH with a 52...and he did it 10 or 12 times without much of an issue.

[dmcoco84 4]

Cool, thanx for the info!

Coco

[Faber 0]

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It's very difficult to even take a guess without specifying the type of rig.

and even by the same type of harness you need to meassure anyway,example my pin flap at my old gargyole ill leave closed down to 230ft or so,by my new Gargoyle i open it at 300ft,as its still "stiff" as its so new/few jumps on it..

Always test it if you aint sure..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Faber 0]

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Spencer's name comes to mind. 180ft bridge handheld

huh... Spence, im interested in that one aswell along whith the 180ft waterfal you spoke about,ill get back some day to get it

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Zoter 0]

I've really started to enjoy lower stuff......alot more than high stuff !....but with my size canopy I am very concerned about any 'extra' delay during canopy extraction /deployment that may occur on lower jumps.
As well as the handheld PC 'packing' method.....what are peoples thoughts on using big PC's vs smaller PC's (say 46 or 42)...ie overall snatch force vs speed to inflation of PC on lower objects.
I have heard arguments supporting both choices...

[TomAiello 25]

If you are really, really low, I'd use a big PC (I like 48's, personally) and present the PC to the air in a manner that reduces or eliminates the potential for hesitation (which is the major downside for a big PC). Consider holding the PC by the very base (at the bridle attachment) only, and "lofting" the fully inflated PC up into the air at exit (a short bridle can be helpful when using this technique, as well).

If you are going lowish, but stowing or taking a delay, I'd consider using a smaller PC (like a 42) which will be less prone to hesitation (especially when stowed). Although it will yield slightly less snatch and drag force, the thing that will kill you on those jumps is not reaching line stretch slightly slower--it's the unpredictable hesitations.

In either case, my gear and technique choices are led by my desire to avoid hesitations. I don't really mind if I open a little slower/lower, as long as it's as predictable as possible. Predictable I can plan for (and make decisions on the basis of, such as my go/no go decision). Random I have to react to. I prefer being able to plan, rather than having to react to random factors (of which we have enough--which is why I like to minimize them).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[tfelber 0]

The guy I was talking about going HH from 170' was throwing his PC upward and leaving just as it reached bridle stretch. He was getting about 3-5 seconds of canopy time.

As for size, I was told over the phone while at the base of a certain 350' freestander that bigger is always better! Of course I'm sure that doesn't always hold true but for 350' this guy sounded pretty certain!

[Faber 0]

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The guy I was talking about going HH from 170' was throwing his PC upward and leaving just as it reached bridle stretch. He was getting about 3-5 seconds of canopy time.

doing the same off 180ft i can get up to 7 secs of canopy flightwhith a 46 av zp pc on my 266vtec flick slightly shorter canopy ride in the fox through..

About pin flaps,please rember that a new harness is more stiff than a old one.so do a test if you aint sure..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Zoter 0]

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doing the same off 180ft i can get up to 7 secs of canopy flight

Dont you risk and entanglement with the PC bridle using this method.
I'm assuming you leave with a tail wind and as you jump forward ...dont you risk your right hand/arm going 'over the top' of the bridal thats slightly ahead of you..?
I mean it obviously works....but is the risk of entanglment here increased..?

[Faber 0]

pm you in a sec

No i dont think its a problem more than a regular exit.

At low altitude exits it can be a help not to launch off but just to drop off the not get the pendulum effect.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber