getting into base: first skydiving rig

[mostwanted 0]

i hope it is ok to post this on the base-forum.

well, it is time for me (after AFF) to buy my first skydiving-rig.

as i would like to get into base in the future i would be interested to hear your opinion on aerodyne's triathlon as a first-skydiving-canopy for me.

well, it would be a 7-cell-canopy - maybe not too bad to make the recommended drills?

if you could recommend it - wich size should it have? i have 30 skydives and 62 kg.

i am looking forward to your replies.

[980 0]

The 99 for sure.

Steep learning curve but if you survive it you’ll be ready.

[TomAiello 25]

Although the Triathlon is closer to a BASE canopy than many skydiving canopies, it's really not that close.

If you're really serious about BASE as your primary focus, consider using a Super Raven, a PD 7 cell, or an older (hence used and cheaper) 7 cell like a Cruiselite. The best option of all, of course, would be to simply pick up a BASE canopy--either buying the one you will use for BASE straight away, or picking up a secondhand one for skydiving duty. Any of these is going to be very large, and require you to get a very big skydiving rig.

Honestly, if you're going to get a Triathlon 150 or something thinking it's "close" to a BASE canopy, you're just going to be fooling yourself. Aside from having 7 cells, they have very little in common.

Bottom line: If you're serious about training for BASE, skip the Triathlon and just buy a BASE canopy straight away.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mostwanted 0]

thanks tom,

i was told and i read severel times that it could become frustrating to focus 200% on base-jumping while learning to skydive. well, i started skydiving just because of base but of course also want to have fun in the air while skydiving...

maybe an acceptable option could be to start skydiving with a canopy that also makes fun and jump one of those docile canopies 30 times (or so) in the weeks right before the FJC?

what do think of that? would therefore a triathon be acceptable?


edited: spelling

[JaapSuter 0]

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want to have fun in the air while skydiving...

You can have just as much fun in the air with a BASE canopy in your skydiving rig.

If you make sure you get a proper rig, you can still do all the funky headdown stuff those modern freefly kids are doing today...

The only thing that'll be different is your canopy rides, but arguably those can be more fun with a BASE canopy (once you get into traditional accuracy) than with a middle-of-the-road 170 canopy.

That isn't to say there aren't any fun things you can do with a 170, but it doesn't offer much sinking capacity and it sure as hell is damn fun to really sink down onto something smack in the middle of the bowl.

[mostwanted 0]

hmm, this (making a decision) is all so difficult (and expensive *g*)!

how much do i know about what makes fun with only 30 belly-skydives on the credit side?

@jaap: how did you start skydiving? did you know that you wanted to get into base at the beginning? would you really buy yourself a super-docile base-canopy(-alike) if you would be in my situation?

[JaapSuter 0]

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(and expensive *g*)!

You should be able to pick up a used unvented BASE canopy you can use for skydiving for relatively little money.

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how much do i know about what makes fun with only 30 belly-skydives on the credit side?

You don't really, which is why you ask around on this forum and other people (your skydiving instructor for example). So you're doing the right thing.

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@jaap: how did you start skydiving? did you know that you wanted to get into base at the beginning?

My first memorable encounter with BASE jumping was seeing the trailer for First BASE. I remember thinking how cool it must be, but (due to a lack of knowledge that possibly remains today) associating it with a high roll-the-dice factor. So I added it to my long list of "things I'd like to do some day, but won't make an aggressive effort towards yet."

A few years later I happened to be watching Point Break (still the best, albeit not most realistic, skydiving movie in my opinion) and although I had seen it before, this time I got a sudden urge to start skydiving. The next day I was doing my static-line course.

At that point, BASE was still on the "no immediate goal" list but as I gained more gear knowledge and learned that skydiving is a remarkably survivable sport, BASE slowly crept towards the top of the list and somewhere around skydive number 70 it popped from the original list onto my much shorter list of goals I'm effectively working towards.

Up to that point I had been jumping large rental gear and my own first rig, a Sabre 170. I continued jumping my own gear, and combined it with 10k hop-and-pops on rented seven-cells (220s mostly) at another dropzone further away.

My first time on a BASE canopy was during my FJC with Tom Aiello. I did another FJC with Apex BASE after that and then I ordered a BASE canopy which I skydived for the first time on my 150th-ish skydive.

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would you really buy yourself a super-docile base-canopy(-alike) if you would be in my situation?

I don't know your situation so it's hard to tell.

When I started skydiving I was still woefully ignorant on how parachutes worked. I distinctly remember being pissed off that the structure of my static-line course didn't first teach us how to pack a parachute before we made our first jump. I needed about 40 skydives before I found this forum and Blinc Magazine. That enabled me to absorb the necessary information to turn BASE from a roll-the-dice future goal into something I could effectively work towards.

So from my point of view it was a healthy and natural thing to buy a common skydiving rig.

It appears you're in a much different situation, already knowing more about BASE then I did when I started skydiving. In the end it all depends on how badly you want to BASE jump and how uninterested you think you'll be in other areas of canopy piloting.

My recommendation is to get a cheap used BASE canopy. If somewhere down the road you learn that you enjoy other things, you can just buy, rent or loan a second rig then.

[shunkka 0]

one question
a good accuracy canopy (like parafoil) in a good size that give a wingloading apropiate to the wingloading need in base is not a better option than a triathlon?

-------------------------
"jump, have fun, pull"

[TomAiello 25]

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a good accuracy canopy (like parafoil) in a good size that give a wingloading apropiate to the wingloading need in base is not a better option than a triathlon?

Much better. I overlooked that in my listing of canopies that would work well. Accuracy canopies are definitely a good choice for a pre-BASE training canopy.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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@jaap: how did you start skydiving? did you know that you wanted to get into base at the beginning? would you really buy yourself a super-docile base-canopy(-alike) if you would be in my situation?

I'll take a swing at that one, too, if it's ok.

I started skydiving with the immediate intention of moving on to BASE. I made a bit over 300 skydives in 3 months, and then pretty much just went BASE jumping.

I made most of my skydives on a 150 square foot 9 cell ZP canopy.

If I had it to do over again (and had a bit more knowledge going in), I'd opt to set up a much larger rig and put a BASE canopy in it for those skydives.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mostwanted 0]

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In the end it all depends on how badly you want to BASE jump and how uninterested you think you'll be in other areas of canopy piloting.

REAL HARD, but i guess a little bit of RW would also be VERY funny. at the moment i am not that interested in freeflying, but i remember that when i started with the AFF the situation was inverse. once again: what do i know with only 30 skydives on the credit side...

on the other hand side i think i wouldn't have started and maybe wouldn't continue skydiving (it is indeed a very expensive hobby...) if base wouldn't be in my mind.

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My recommendation is to get a cheap used BASE canopy. If somewhere down the road you learn that you enjoy other things, you can just buy, rent or loan a second rig then.

well i thought of that a few months ago - infact i had the plan to focuse on base-drills 300% (at least *g*)! but then i contacted an experienced "local" base jumper, skydiving instructor and rigger. he advised me to play the sport (base) as save as possible (!) but on the other hand side told me that he would not buy a really big, docile base-canopy(-alike) for my first canopy. ("what if you stand on the exit-point the first time and you shit your pants after torturing yourself while skydiving for 2 years?")

all his arguments seemed conclusive, even though i wanted to beliefe, that i would will not shit my pants anyway! *g*

the next "problem" i would have to face: infact i am everything but not keen on the fact that the guys at my local dropzone would come to know my getting-into-base-plan. (my AFF-instructor would kill me! *g*)

[JaapSuter 0]

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the next "problem" i would have to face: infact i am everything but not keen on the fact that the guys at my local dropzone would come to know my getting-into-base-plan. (my AFF-instructor would kill me! *g*)

Depending on what attitude you have displayed at your dropzone so far, that might say more about your dropzone and instructor than about you.

I know a BASE jumper who started playing around with his risers on his first AFF jump. His instructor asked him why he did that. When he learned this jumper's main interest was BASE, it allowed for a more constructive and effective AFF and follow-up program.

As long as you've established a humble, eager, patient and intelligent attitude at your dropzone, they shouldn't have a problem with your desire to get into BASE at some point. In fact, they better get used to it because it's going to make up a growing part of their business into the future.

I don't skydive a whole lot these days, but I always pick the dropzone with the people who supported my desire to get into BASE and enabled me to get their with better preparation (by renting me a student rig that would fit a BASE canopy, by allowing me to skydive a BASE container with a belly-mount, by allowing me to jump with toggles-unstowed or steering-lines outside the grommets, etcetera).

In the long run, honesty pays off...

[mostwanted 0]

tom, sorry that i did not ask you explicitly. thank you for your very interesting view!

hmm, ok - that (all the replies in sum) will most likely change my plan.

thank you all for your help once again!

[Tenshi 0]

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I made a bit over 300 skydives in 3 months

That's insane. It'll probably take me 3 years to get to 300 jumps. What did you do for a living?

[mostwanted 0]

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the next "problem" i would have to face: infact i am everything but not keen on the fact that the guys at my local dropzone would come to know my getting-into-base-plan. (my AFF-instructor would kill me! *g*)

Depending on what attitude you have displayed at your dropzone so far, that might say more about your dropzone and instructor than about you.

most likely his critical position during the AFF-course had something to do with the fact that one day before my course started one of his former students died base-jumping.

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As long as you've established a humble, eager, patient and intelligent attitude at your dropzone, they shouldn't have a problem with your desire to get into BASE at some point. In fact, they better get used to it because it's going to make up a growing part of their business into the future.

you most likely be right.

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I don't skydive a whole lot these days, but I always pick the dropzone with the people who supported my desire to get into BASE and enabled me to get their with better preparation (by renting me a student rig that would fit a BASE canopy, by allowing me to skydive a BASE container with a belly-mount, by allowing me to jump with toggles-unstowed or steering-lines outside the grommets, etcetera).

that's a good point.

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In the long run, honesty pays off...

(would it be a lie if it was only a secret? *g*)

[TomAiello 25]

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I made a bit over 300 skydives in 3 months

That's insane. It'll probably take me 3 years to get to 300 jumps. What did you do for a living?

I was single, had no girlfriend, worked a government job that let me sneak out during the weekdays, and had no cost of living (I owned the house, and rented rooms to my roommates for enough money to cover the entire mortgage payment). I pretty much took every paycheck straight to the dropzone to buy blocks of tickets.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[mostwanted 0]

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If you make sure you get a proper rig, you can still do all the funky headdown stuff those modern freefly kids are doing today...

can you give an example of a "proper rig" for let's say a 220 base-canopy?

[GATTY 0]

Dude if you like I am always willing to help out new jumpers. I just happen to have an 89 stiletto sitting around and you're welcome to use it as long as you like. And remember suck it on down HELL ain't half full!!!!

Spread LOV!

[Faber 0]

Get your self a Raven or Manta thouse should be really cheap theese days and from what i flew them i think they are close to a BASE canopy,actualy Ravens has and is(but nutters)used as BASE canopyes theese days..

62kg i would choose a 245sqft Raven

cool seeing one who wants to do it the right way. my best whishes that you succsee first pint on me as we meet one day

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Faber 0]

Vector and Javerlin harneses today are also made freefly safe even in the bigger range..

Also bear in mind that if you cheoose to pack a F-111 canopy into a container you can pack it smaller than your buddy using a ZP canopy.

I think its over eracting to buy a BASe canopy as as soon as you want to start BASE theres a hole new world of canopyes and youll need to try them out aswell also jumping a BASE canopy on a local dz to me is like "look at me i want to be a hardcore a$$ as i grow up" as said i think you´ll be good off whith a 220-240ish Raven rember more time you fly in theese canopyes you tend to want to try out more so you dnt get borred.. you cant blow em up as theyre open.. do stalls pack yourself linetwists etc etc its way fun(i mean it)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[mostwanted 0]

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Get your self a Raven or Manta thouse should be really cheap theese days..

how much skydives already done with those canopies would be just acceptable?

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62kg i would choose a 245sqft Raven

wow, that is even larger than my 235 ZP-EXE i jumped during my AFF - therefore i guess i would have to use one of those really big student-rigs?

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cool seeing one who wants to do it the right way. my best whishes that you succsee first pint on me as we meet one day

i will remind you

[mostwanted 0]

what do you think of this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Skydiving-Parachute-Raven-2-Reserve-Canopy_W0QQitemZ7222865406QQcategoryZ310QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


PS: it sucks to be an ignorant beginner!

[mostwanted 0]

what would you say to this one:

"another problem is, that you could regularly not go skydiving on (more) windy days, because of the bad gliding-performance of such a docile canopy (e.g. raven). you could maybe "often" not reach the DZ anymore..."

[wwarped 0]

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"another problem is, that you could regularly not go skydiving on (more) windy days, because of the bad gliding-performance of such a docile canopy (e.g. raven). you could maybe "often" not reach the DZ anymore..."

whoever said that seems to have forgotton two skills...
1. how to properly spot a load
2. how to land while going backward

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[Faber 0]

yeah what you say

People who dsnt land back at their dz either dont fly their canopyes correct or they jumped off a bad spot..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber