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obelixtim 100
* 1.
Bet the guy under canopy got a rush......as well.
What bright spark came up with barrel rolling to clear your airspace in the first place?....
It concerns me that there are people out there advocating this nonsense, which flies in the face of proven breakoff procedures.....
Bet the guy under canopy got a rush......as well.
What bright spark came up with barrel rolling to clear your airspace in the first place?....
It concerns me that there are people out there advocating this nonsense, which flies in the face of proven breakoff procedures.....
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....
kuai43 7
QuoteMitch...we are talking to shibu who has professed having a problem with altitude awareness. He is out on his own having trouble. You are telling him to count seconds. He stated quite clearly that his counting is off. His altimeter is what's going to save his butt.
As far as AFF...we teach them to count 1, 2, 3, 4 (and some AFFI carry it on to 5)...not seconds. We know that their brain is not functioning fully because of the adrenaline, etc. We know that they are not going to be able to reliably count seconds. We don't really care if they track 4 seconds or 8 seconds. We are not letting them do it near pull time until late in the training ans even then we are right next to them in case they lose it.
But you didn't know that, did you?
Your barrel rolls? You can listen and heed or you can ignore. Nobody is going to hold a gun to your head.
Nobody is flaming you...yet.
All of you may as well talk to a stump. It's just as dense and it won't argue back.
(edit - posted before I read further,)
Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal
Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess
Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess
-ftp- 0
QuoteQuotethank you for your respectful reply. it is appreciated and the information comes across a lot easier and makes the listener more receptive.
and i really was just kidding about the stress
+1 to what Twardo said about being receptive to advice. Good on you for considering, instead of just getting defensive. (I think we've all done that before...it's awful hard to say "maybe I was wrong" on these forums.)
That being said, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'd like to give you a concrete example of the barrel roll issue. Here's one reason why it's not a good idea.
The background:
- 23-way tracking dive.
- Instructions were to stick with the dive until planned breakoff, then fan out up to 90 degrees and track.
- Also, organizers wanted people to do a barrel roll before deploying to "clear your airspace." I normally disagree with this logic, but for some reason didn't this time.
What happened:
- I was one of the last out.
- About 500 feet before breakoff altitude, another jumper caught my burble and took me out. My audible went off, and since I knew I was one of the last people getting in, I turned 90 degrees and tracked.
- Right before deployment, since I knew I was one of the first ones to turn and track, I said "why not?" and did a barrel roll.
You can see what happened.
So, in no particular order, here's a few reasons not to do a barrel roll to "clear your airspace:"
1 - A good deal of people can't stay on-heading and keep a stable track while doing a barrel roll.
2 - If you *think* you see someone above you, what are you going to do? If you change heading to correct, how do you know they're not doing the exact same thing? How do you change heading without screwing the guy tracking to your R or L? Try and consider all these variables and make a decision what to do in the 15 seconds or so before you interface with the planet.
3 (My case, video link above) - You never know when some idiot who went low on the tracking dive will decide "Fuck it, I'm not getting back in" and decide to sitfly for the rest of the jump.
Anyway, that's my take on it. If you're looking behind you, you're not looking where you're going...and thus are becoming part of the problem you're trying to avoid. Ultimately, had there been a collision, it would have been my fault. Because the low many always has the right of way.
You can scan to your L and R while tracking off, looking over your shoulders and adjusting accordingly if someone seems to drift into your airspace. But barrel-rolling at the bottom end? Bad idea.
Also, apologies to @shibu for the thread drift. Just wanted to clear that up, as it's something I hear a lot of newer jumpers saying, without considering the pluses and minuses of it.
What was the decided break off altitude and deployment alti? thanks for sharing that, that was a close one.
It's been more than a year since this occurrence, so I can't quite remember the specific details...but I want to say it was a 5500' breakoff, with a 3000' deployment altitude.
(But again, that's based on memory - don't have the logbook present at the moment. I do remember there being more than enough time for a good, solid breakoff.)
(But again, that's based on memory - don't have the logbook present at the moment. I do remember there being more than enough time for a good, solid breakoff.)
Signatures are the new black.
were you diving in your track?
"its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not"
1653
1653
shibu 1
Yes I was diving in my track.. not head down mind you but it was a sloppy diving track. I suppose that could have been half the problem. Thanks for asking... Still lost alti awareness though.. but this is something I'll keep in mind. Thanks.
shibu 1
I did alot of reading & watched a video. When I was reading I found that some DZs have overshoot & undershoot landing areas for students & ppl like myself. I tried out a new DZ yesterday.. Skydive Long Island in Calverton.. The airport is HUGE (about 2,900 acres to be exact) and has the largest landing area in the US! They use a 10,000-foot-long runway, and have a 5-acre landing area along the taxiway!
So I had two jumps yesterday & made no fatal mistakes ( I am reviewing the BSRs regularly). I overshot on both jumps.. but all that meant was a long walk back to the packing tent.. Ok it also means I have alot to learn about canopy control.. but now I have a place where I can safely learn without being a danger to myself or others. Both jumps were coach jumps & he commented on how alti aware I was.
I am going back there fri to make some solo jumps & I am taking a canopy control course there soon. Thanks again to everyone. I think those bad landings & other issues were a blessing in disguise.. a wakeup call that will help me be a much better skydiver.
JohnMitchell 14
So while you're doing your barrel roll, how do you watch out for the jumper below you, waving off, who has right-of-way?Quote
anything bigger and you bet your ass i'm doing a barrel roll. which is a better use of that 5 seconds.
Sorry, but this has been debated to death. Our sport is set up that low man has right-of-way. Although I look over both shoulders as I wave off, it is the responsibility of people above me to clear me as I wave off and pull. If they're mucking about doing barrel rolls instead of flat tracking and watching where they are going, they're not doing their job. Luckily I can out track 95% of the people I jump with, Vskydiver being one that I can't.
JohnMitchell 14
Quote
i dont plan on it. belly jumpers stress out way too much and suck the fun out of a skydive
We'll see if you live to make 5000+ jumps and see if you get tired of going to funerals.
Quote
I am going back there fri to make some solo jumps & I am taking a canopy control course there soon. Thanks again to everyone. I think those bad landings & other issues were a blessing in disguise.. a wakeup call that will help me be a much better skydiver.
Good stuff, Shibu and congrats on finding a nice home.
Blessing in disguise, indeed. Much more importantly, that call will make you a safer skydiver, too.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
no problem, i had the same issue when i first learned tracking, especially when it was break off time. what helps a lot is to start moving forward with your legs extended first then bring your arms back to about 90 degrees with your torso and de arch a bit and "hug" the air. you dont want to bring your arms back behind you because that causes the dive, so im not surprised after a few seconds of track that you lost that much altitude. just before entering your track check your altitude, extend your legs and push against the air with your arms count to 4 stop on 5 and wave off and pull. also get video of your tracking so you can see what youre doing wrong, that helped me a lot. also to improve alt awareness, check your altimeter over and over again on the ground in the plane and then remind yourself to check it in the air. making sure youre not too low is a lot more important than trying to squeaze in one last dock or turn. good luck!
"its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not"
1653
1653
shibu 1
Made 3 solo jumps at SDLI & I'm seeing a definite improvement trend. I think the alt loss was prob due more to a poor track/dive position rather than just poor alt awareness, but you can never be too altitude aware.
I landed in the overshoot area on the last of the 3 jumps but I think this may be partially bc I kept switching canopy sizes due to lack of availability (1st jump NAV260, 2nd NAV240, 3rd NAV260). I am staying at SDLI until I improve on my canopy skills / Target accuracy.
I am back in the sport for as long as I am capable.
I landed in the overshoot area on the last of the 3 jumps but I think this may be partially bc I kept switching canopy sizes due to lack of availability (1st jump NAV260, 2nd NAV240, 3rd NAV260). I am staying at SDLI until I improve on my canopy skills / Target accuracy.
I am back in the sport for as long as I am capable.
bluetwo 0
If you are a naysaying wannabe asshole prick that actually likes to pick apart what people say or do and use technicalities like a wannabe asshole prick. If you constantly judge people and go around talking about how long you've been doing something so therefore you must be right in every way, you should definitely do the world a favor and just move on to something else because there are a lot of cool people in this sport who don't want or need you around.
Flame on professional naysayers.
Flame on professional naysayers.
_______________________________________
QuoteIf you are a naysaying wannabe asshole prick....
Flame on professional naysayers.
WoW!
This tells me that you just may be one of those who won't listen to analysis and reasoning. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
Believe me, this sport needs more people standing up and saying nay to the stupidity currently going on.
Quote....there are a lot of cool people in this sport who don't want or need you around.
I'd venture to say that most of those "cool" people aren't "cool" at all. Arrogant seems to be a better-fitting word. If one thinks he is one of the "cool" people, it's probably because he isn't.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
QuoteIf you are a naysaying wannabe asshole prick that actually likes to pick apart what people say or do and use technicalities like a wannabe asshole prick. If you constantly judge people and go around talking about how long you've been doing something so therefore you must be right in every way, you should definitely do the world a favor and just move on to something else because there are a lot of cool people in this sport who don't want or need you around.
Flame on professional naysayers.
Somebody hit a nerve did they?
~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
bluetwo 0
QuoteSomebody hit a nerve did they?
Quote
HAHAHAhA..... ok that was hilarious._______________________________________
Ron 7
Quotetelling a new jumper to look at his altimeter while he is tracking, to me, is a bad idea.
A worse idea is blowing right past your deployment altitude.
And I find this to be funny:
Quotebetter to count to 5 and watch where you are going and who is around. you tend to go in the direction you look. perhaps i should have said you cant look at your alti without changing your body position. you move your head and you tend to drift that way.
BUT:
Quoteyou do not need to stop your tack early or slow down to flip on your back for a second. this is easily done while tracking.
So...... looking at an alti will cause a body distortion and change your heading (and therefore is bad)... But rolling over is a good idea with no issues?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
+1 to what Twardo said about being receptive to advice. Good on you for considering, instead of just getting defensive. (I think we've all done that before...it's awful hard to say "maybe I was wrong" on these forums.)
That being said, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'd like to give you a concrete example of the barrel roll issue. Here's one reason why it's not a good idea.
The background:
- 23-way tracking dive.
- Instructions were to stick with the dive until planned breakoff, then fan out up to 90 degrees and track.
- Also, organizers wanted people to do a barrel roll before deploying to "clear your airspace." I normally disagree with this logic, but for some reason didn't this time.
What happened:
- I was one of the last out.
- About 500 feet before breakoff altitude, another jumper caught my burble and took me out. My audible went off, and since I knew I was one of the last people getting in, I turned 90 degrees and tracked.
- Right before deployment, since I knew I was one of the first ones to turn and track, I said "why not?" and did a barrel roll.
You can see what happened.
So, in no particular order, here's a few reasons not to do a barrel roll to "clear your airspace:"
1 - A good deal of people can't stay on-heading and keep a stable track while doing a barrel roll.
2 - If you *think* you see someone above you, what are you going to do? If you change heading to correct, how do you know they're not doing the exact same thing? How do you change heading without screwing the guy tracking to your R or L? Try and consider all these variables and make a decision what to do in the 15 seconds or so before you interface with the planet.
3 (My case, video link above) - You never know when some idiot who went low on the tracking dive will decide "Fuck it, I'm not getting back in" and decide to sitfly for the rest of the jump.
Anyway, that's my take on it. If you're looking behind you, you're not looking where you're going...and thus are becoming part of the problem you're trying to avoid. Ultimately, had there been a collision, it would have been my fault. Because the low many always has the right of way.
You can scan to your L and R while tracking off, looking over your shoulders and adjusting accordingly if someone seems to drift into your airspace. But barrel-rolling at the bottom end? Bad idea.
Also, apologies to @shibu for the thread drift. Just wanted to clear that up, as it's something I hear a lot of newer jumpers saying, without considering the pluses and minuses of it.
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